Kamil Wilczek
Poland
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Hi,

today I played another one session of TI SE and during our game we faced this problem. One of my friends played as Naalu. This rase has well known ability to retreat before the battle (which is really pain in ... ;-)). I had 'Flanking Tactic' AC, which disable the Naalu ability. But Naalu ally played 'Sabotage' and canceled my card.

Flanking Tactic says 'regardless of Special Abilities or Action Cards that would allow a retreat'. So cancelling my 'Flanking' card by 'Sabotage' allows them to retreat, but not directly.
What is the correct answer, should this be possible?
Is also sacrificing an Agent to sabotage my 'Flanking Tactic' a valid move?
If yes, is there a good way to prevent Naalu from retreating constantly?
I maybe can somehow corner them or surround them, maybe they will run out of Strategic Counters, but so will I run out of Command Counters...

Thanks in advance for any help and Best Regards,
(sorry, my english may not be fluent and correct :-))
Kamil Wilczek
 
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Scott Lewis
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kamil_wilczek wrote:
Hi,

today I played another one session of TI SE and during our game we faced this problem. One of my friends played as Naalu. This rase has well known ability to retreat before the battle (which is really pain in ... ;-)). I had 'Flanking Tactic' AC, which disable the Naalu ability. But Naalu ally played 'Sabotage' and canceled my card.

Flanking Tactic says 'regardless of Special Abilities or Action Cards that would allow a retreat'. So cancelling my 'Flanking' card by 'Sabotage' allows them to retreat, but not directly.
What is the correct answer, should this be possible?

Yes; the text on Flanking Tactic is referring to things like the Naalu ability and Skilled Retreat. However, if the card is Sabotaged, ALL the text on Flanking Tactic is completely ignored (including the part about "regardless of Action Cards"). Sabotage itself isn't allowing a retreat, it's just canceling the card. The allowed retreat after that is just a side-effect of having the Flanking Tactic ignored.

Quote:
Is also sacrificing an Agent to sabotage my 'Flanking Tactic' a valid move?

Yes, you can use an Agent exactly like a Sabotage card.

Quote:
If yes, is there a good way to prevent Naalu from retreating constantly?

By retreating, they are giving up the space in the system, and potentially the planets as well. So having them retreat is not always a good tactic. Also, they can only retreat if they have somewhere legal to go; if they don't have any nearby activated systems, they can't use the power. If using Tactical Retreats, they can't use that ability if they have no CC's. Eventually, they will be burning a lot of command counters just to make the retreats.

The key is, battle itself doesn't win the game - it's a means to an end. When fighting the Naalu, expect them to retreat, and bring in a big enough force to protect against a counterattack. But as always, focus on objectives - that's what will win the game.
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Kamil Wilczek
Poland
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Thank You :-)

Shattered Empires changed rules governing retreats, so Naalu always can activate empty/friendly previously unactivated System before a battle and retreat. If they are rich in Strategy Counters, they can run away pretty long :-) And with their special technology, you lose one Fleet Counter only for activating their fleet.

Of course You are right, VP and Mecatol are main objectives, but you sometimes want some action, especially if an other player is intentionally mean ;-)
 
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Scott Lewis
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kamil_wilczek wrote:
Thank You :-)

Shattered Empires changed rules governing retreats, so Naalu always can activate empty/friendly previously unactivated System before a battle and retreat. If they are rich in Strategy Counters, they can run away pretty long :-)

They have to be counters in the Strategy Allocation area - and that area only really lets them REact to things (via Strategy Card secondaries or retreats). If they are putting all their Command Counters into the Strategy Allocation area, they aren't putting them into their Command Pool, and thus aren't getting as many actions. Managing one's Command Counter allotment is a big part of strategy, and in most games I've played, if the Naalu player were spending all his time preparing for massive retreats, that player will get trounced by the other players who are spending their CC's to activate systems and gain objectives

Quote:
And with their special technology, you lose one Fleet Counter only for activating their fleet.

The Telepathic Mind Weapon only works if the Naalu control the entire system, which means they have a non-fighter ship in the system AND control all the planets. While this will often be the case, if you can find ways to make them lose control of some of the planets, that will make it harder for them to use the tech. For instance, sacrifice a Fleet Supply counter to make a massive assault, and then invade the planets. The Naalu may retreat with their ships, but they've given up some planets in the meantime, and if you can heavily fortify even one of those planets, it will be hard for them to regain control of the system, even if they drive your ships out. And if there is even ONE planet in the system they don't control, the Telepathic Mind Weapon won't work.

The Naalu have some interesting powers, to be sure, but they aren't gamebreaking (and I think overall, the Naalu are a middle-of-the-pack race, not one of the top races in my opinion).
 
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Kamil Wilczek
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With your point of view and after rethinking my last game I think I could play better and corner them more effectively :-)

Thanks for the answers!
(I will for sure have more questions after next game ;-))
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Adam Mitchell
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sigmazero13 wrote:

The Naalu have some interesting powers, to be sure, but they aren't gamebreaking (and I think overall, the Naalu are a middle-of-the-pack race, not one of the top races in my opinion).


In that case, which are the top races in your opinion?
 
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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shattered Empire » Forums » Rules
Re: Naalu and Flanking Tactic/Sabotage problem.
Solan wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:

The Naalu have some interesting powers, to be sure, but they aren't gamebreaking (and I think overall, the Naalu are a middle-of-the-pack race, not one of the top races in my opinion).


In that case, which are the top races in your opinion?

Overall, I think some of the top tier races include the Yssaril, Hacan, and L1Z1X. Yssaril because of their Skip ability, Hacan because they can easily become resource powerhouses, and L1Z1X because they typically become a juggernaut race as time goes on (and start out with a good setup as well).

It's hard for me to really rank them in "best" to "worst" numerically because a lot of it depends on the person playing a given race and who they are matched up against. And Naalu certainly aren't "bad" - I just don't think they are quite on par with the 3 in terms of strength (though they definitely still have a good shot at winning).
 
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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kamil_wilczek wrote:
Thank You :-)

Shattered Empires changed rules governing retreats,)


Just to clarify, Shattered Empires offers a variant called tactical retreats. It did not change the rules and you need to clarify that you are adding this variant of the game before playing. :-)
 
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Joshua Simone [The Quasi Geek Dad]
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Solan wrote:
sigmazero13 wrote:

The Naalu have some interesting powers, to be sure, but they aren't gamebreaking (and I think overall, the Naalu are a middle-of-the-pack race, not one of the top races in my opinion).


In that case, which are the top races in your opinion?

Overall, I think some of the top tier races include the Yssaril, Hacan, and L1Z1X. Yssaril because of their Skip ability, Hacan because they can easily become resource powerhouses, and L1Z1X because they typically become a juggernaut race as time goes on (and start out with a good setup as well).

It's hard for me to really rank them in "best" to "worst" numerically because a lot of it depends on the person playing a given race and who they are matched up against. And Naalu certainly aren't "bad" - I just don't think they are quite on par with the 3 in terms of strength (though they definitely still have a good shot at winning).


I just won the other night with Naalu. I had good rapport with the player to my right, and the player to my left I had a supernova helping me out in those combats. I was able to save up money to buy techs and I just tech'd out my fighters. Cybernetics + advanced fighters + Naalu racial = fighters hitting on 6+. Come at me with a war sun, I roll 12 6+ to hit with my gigantic army of fighters. The L1Z1X came at me with an armada of Dreadnoughts when I had Mecatol and was easily able to defend against them. All in all my opponents realized they shouldn't of discounted me even though I laid low for the first couple of rounds. :-) Teach them to let me tech! lol.
 
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