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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Yet another race ranking rss

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Mikael Halonen
Sweden
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Jol-Nar could also(with help of ERT) offer tradegoods to anyone willing to activate an invaded Jol-Nar system. Depending on the other players this could result in 0-36 adittional PDS shots per turn. cool
 
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Brian Petersen
United States
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Player A's PDS do not fire at Player C's units when player B activates Player C (Formerly A)'s system adjacent to Player A's PDS.

Jol-Nar's PDS only fire at the active player when they activate the system, or the target system when Jol-Nar is the active player.

EDIT: It's also a moot point, because Jol-Nar needs to "control the system" to trigger ERT, and therefore has a non-fighter ship there, and therefore enemy ships are not there.
 
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Mikael Halonen
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Quote:
Player A's PDS do not fire at Player C's units when player B activates Player C (Formerly A)'s system adjacent to Player A's PDS.

Jol-Nar's PDS only fire at the active player when they activate the system, or the target system when Jol-Nar is the active player.


I think my group misjudged that part in the rules. Not the first misjudgement either. There are so many rules in this game.
 
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Bence Tamás
Hungary
Budapest
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JohanCarstensen wrote:
Gygu wrote:
I find Xxcha better than Sardak.


Ok, good for you. Here is why I think they are the the worst race:
1. First and most important, I have never ever seen Xxcha even being close to a victory.
2. Only 2 lousy starting technologies that are in the beginning of the tech tree.
3. Only one carrier to start with and without XRD transporters or Stasis capsules. All this leads to a slow start.
4. Lousy home world.
5. All there ability's are consuming command counters. Do you think you will have any one left to do anything else? Good luck with that.


I think that this comparison ridiculous.
1. First and most important you may not have seen something, but it may still exist. I never saw a Sradak N'orr win, still I can well imagine they can.
2. The two lousy techs give Xxcha more versatility compared to the Norr. They are one tech away from XRD. They can tech towards things the N'orr could/should never tech, because it takes them too much time.
The N'orr have to waste at least two turns teching towards XRD or Stasis capsules, without either of these your galactic conquest will be more of a crawl.
In comparison the red techs are not as important early game, so Xxcha can afford to assess the situation before teching. ("Is my neighbour aggressive or will he leave me alone? Can I buy him off with trade or political favours? Should I rush for deep space to build a defense grid?")
Even better if you don't happen to have a powerhungry N'orr neighbour, who is hellbent on obliterating you the first turn (once again something I have yet to see, not meaning that it is not possible), you have the advantage of -1 first combat round, a big deterrent for everyone.

3.Rare are the races with instant XRD or Capsules, but even more rare are the ones like the N'orr, who do not even possess Antimass or Enviro required for XRD or Capsules...

4.The N'orr homeworld is just as bad. Actually, because of the yellow "lousy tech" the Xxcha homeworld outproduces the N'orr homeworld.

5.You are never required to use them, but once again this is versatile, which the N'orr is not. XXcha is safe on the political front, has -1 on rolls first combat round (usually the round that decides most outcomes), and if you want to opt for fast expansion you can use diplo II secondary for just a CC (something rarely done, but still the option is there).

All-in-all the XXcha should at least be ranked over the N'orr based on the above.

Also on the sidenote not all CC eater abilities suck, the Sol and Muaat unit spam abilities are just great, they buy you time AND give you units.
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General_Specific wrote:

All-in-all the XXcha should at least be ranked over the N'orr based on the above.

Yes, there official ranking by BGG users is:
11. The Xxcha Kingdom
16. Sardakk N'orr

Race ranking

But XXcha is still not better in my opinion.
 
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Anders Kernel
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Just to say, you cannot say that the official ranking by the BGG are the thumb ranking you are linking to. That ranking shows who people believe are the top three (only 3 thumbs given), but it is not a ranking system for the rest of the races.

I really enjoy playing the Xxcha, and have won with them. I believe they have qualities and strategies that are unique, and that if you play them right you can excel with them.

I also played Sardakk Norr and have won with them, through intimidating and crushing my opponents. If you play them right, your opponents might be crushed, driven before you and youll bask in the lamentation of their women (or men regarding Naalu).

However, I would never pick either of those two races to be top three. I believe that Hacan, Yssaril and Mentak to be the most powerful, but then again, this is how we play it and with the number of people, rules and house rules specific to our group.

Again, if I could chose between Mentak, Hacan and Xxcha I would chose the one I haven't played for a long time, or if Id just played all three, Id chose Xxcha, as I like to practise my skills with that particular race.

All of this is, however, highly subjective.

Cheerio,
ST
 
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Mark West
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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne » Forums » Strategy
Re: Yet another race ranking
Let me propose this; if a Sardak N'or player has his Flagship and Warsun in combat that equals 3 auto hits. +1 combat power, Flagship +1, so Warsun hits on a roll of 1. Seeing this head towards your systems is scary!
 
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Lazarus Darkeyes
United States
Playa del Rey
California
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While it would in no way be the most accurate way to say which race is best, in and of itself, it would be interesting if someone ran a tournament which ran every combination of races in a 1-on-1 game, best 2 out of 3 (or 3 out of 5). Maybe in each pairing, the same two [decently skilled] players have to alternate which side they play.

Obviously would take a ton of time...
And I reiterate, just because a race does well in a 1-on-1 game does not mean it will do well in a larger game.

But damn I'd love to see those statistics!
 
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Barnaby Alsop
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Salisbury
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Played the N'orr 1 on 1 against (I think) Yssaril.
We used SE strat cards, racial techs, distant suns, flagships etc.
I got totally screwed by distant sun tokens, lost 2 GF, carrier and general in the very first round (may have been more, my memory fails) while the tribes got loads of good tokens.
Still, managed to pull back, buy the flagship and racial techs (yes - even Berserker Genome, I prefer it to Valkyrie) and mashed the Yssaril into atoms while scoring tons of victory points.sauron
I think the N'orr can be winners, just like other 'weak' races. In fact, I particularly like the 'weak' races because it is more enjoyable for me to try and win with their abilities.
In double fact, I love all the races, their back stories, their themes, and making them work for me in each game!
If we are 'ranking' the N'orr, we should also 'rank' the player playing them and 'rank' the level of enjoyment they want out of this stunning game
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Jeff S
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New York
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Here's how the races have fared over 22 games with my group, with 3-6 players per game.

Race - Times Played - Wins - Percent

Clan of Saar 4 2 50%
Embers of Muaat 7 3 43%
Federation of Sol 7 3 43%
Ghosts of Creuss 5 2 40%
Winnu 5 2 40%
L1Z1X Mindnet 6 2 33%
Mentak Coalition 6 2 33%
Universities of Jol-Nar 6 2 33%
The Arborec 4 1 25%
The Nekro Virus 4 1 25%
Yin Brotherhood 4 1 25%
Emirates of Hacan 7 1 14%
Naalu Collective 6 0
Sardak N'orr 6 0
Xxcha Kingdom 6 0
Yssaril Tribes 5 0
Barony of Letnev 7 0
 
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Adam Mitchell
United States
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sirjonsnow wrote:
Here's how the races have fared over 22 games with my group, with 3-6 players per game.

Race - Times Played - Wins - Percent

Clan of Saar 4 2 50%
Embers of Muaat 7 3 43%
Federation of Sol 7 3 43%
Ghosts of Creuss 5 2 40%
Winnu 5 2 40%
L1Z1X Mindnet 6 2 33%
Mentak Coalition 6 2 33%
Universities of Jol-Nar 6 2 33%
The Arborec 4 1 25%
The Nekro Virus 4 1 25%
Yin Brotherhood 4 1 25%
Emirates of Hacan 7 1 14%
Naalu Collective 6 0
Sardak N'orr 6 0
Xxcha Kingdom 6 0
Yssaril Tribes 5 0
Barony of Letnev 7 0


What?!? How on Earth have the Yssaril, the most overpowered race in the game, been played five times in your group and never have won once? How have the Naalu managed to lose six times?
 
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Jonathan Challis
United Kingdom
Faversham
Kent
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Small samples have next to no statistical relevance - the weakest race played by a great player will almost always beat the strongest played by a weak player.

Our stronger players often play weaker races for the challenge for example, whilst weaker players will take the best they can get. It's a handicapping system that works (although I'll admit I'm the least likely to play that way) but it completely screws these kind of results. So does a random distribution putting strong races in weak hands, or a group mentality of 'must gang-up on the broken race'.

Also, look at those player numbers - 3-4 player game is vastly different to 6-8 which is more common, and the best races differ also.

All things being equal, Yssaril, Jol-Nar, Hacan etc are very strong, but as with most of this very asymmetric game - things are never all equal. That's kind of the beauty of TI3.
 
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