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Android: Netrunner – Cyber Exodus» Forums » General

Subject: Spoilers from a Buried Thread rss

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Trevor Godley
Canada
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Azeltir wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
Edge of World is the most insane thing ever.
I mean...we cant run things anymore. Just put all your cards face down as corp, and play fast advance decks.


ICE up a SanSan, and after scoring your first agenda with it, keep it safe with some ICE and a Edge of World until your next agenda?


Omg yes
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Patrick Jamet
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Alexfrog wrote:
Personal workshop is one of the best cards in the game. Its totally broken. You put out all the things you might need later, and then you stimhack, and you buy the ones you need after they flip their ice up. GG.

Its a free $ every turn, and it allows you access to any icebreaker or other thing you draw, without actually having to pay for it yet. You pay the instant you actually need it.

No surprise, I'm in phase with you.
 
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Pictured: Rags Raggerson, successful businesscat
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Alexfrog wrote:
You apparently didnt play a Shell Traders deck in original netrunner.
I'm not saying these things without any experience. I've played with this card before in the original.


Personal Workshop at face value looks like a reprint of Shell Traders but is nerfed in two key ways.

1. Personal Workshop hosts the cards. If it gets trashed (fairly easy since it's a resource), all the cards on it go with it. Shell Traders set the cards aside. If Shell Traders got trashed, the set aside cards remained set aside and you could install a new one to resume where you left off.

2. Personal Workshop only removes counters from cards it hosts. Shell Traders allowed you to use multiple copies to remove counters from one card.

And of course, it costs 1 instead of 0 and there's a limit of 3 of them. Still a strong card but pretty much everything that made Shell Traders abusive in classic is gone now.
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John Gallant
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Protspeck wrote:


Saw this coming a mile a way as I'm sure others did too. Makes Scorched Earth not so viable.
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Alejandro Galaviz
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Not unique either... so you could spam 3 and have up to 11 cards in hand?
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Pictured: Rags Raggerson, successful businesscat
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No more than Plascrete Carapace did.

Plascrete Carapace - 1 click - 1 draw - 3 credits
Prevent 4 meat damage
Hardware

In contrast...

Public Sympathy - 1 click - *3* draws - 2 credits
*Survive* an extra 2 damage
Resource

Remember, you have to draw up to get the extra protection and it's a resource so the corp can trash it, though you wouldn't have to discard right away.

And just one won't get you out of the double-Scorched Earth that Corps are already planning for.
 
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Edward Calabig
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Kirkland
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I really don't understand why emergency shutdown costs 0. Why does a card like vamp cost x credits and requires a committed run on hq where emergency shutdown costs 0 and can be saved until you make a successful run?

I hope this pack doesn't change the game too much.
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The Lord of Space
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Well if Emergency Shutdown does turn out to be unstoppably game changing, maybe Oversight AI (spoilered for A Study in Static) will counter it somewhat.

Anyways, looking forward to both playing with and against Emergency Shutdown. Probably won't have a choice for the latter!
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Edward Calabig
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Kirkland
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Anyone else feel like nbn keeps getting the cold shoulder? Grrrr where is project Beal ?
 
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Pictured: Rags Raggerson, successful businesscat
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NBN got economy in this pack.

Marked Accounts is a pseudo PAD campaign that pays off almost immediately and costs more to trash.

Pop-Up Window is an economy card that you'll want to layer on central servers.
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ErikPeter Walker
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Rochester
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boardgamegeek.com/boardgameexpansion/145148/
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Joshua B. + Decoy

 
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Andrew Bartosh

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Voxen wrote:
Joshua B. + Decoy



Is... not that great?

Decoy costs 2 Clicks, 1 Credit (Draw, Install, Pay)
Josh costs 2 Clicks, 1 Credit (Draw, Install, Pay)

Josh will provide you two clicks this way. Even if you put aside the draw clicks, you're basically trading two clicks and 2 credits earlier for two 5 click turns (and forcing the Corp to spend a click and 2 credits).

While Biotic Labor is very powerful for providing one extra click, that's because Corp is SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful with more clicks (since they can score agendas away from the runner) while the runner is not significantly more powerful with more clicks. Don't get me wrong, more clicks is always good! But they make a bigger difference for Corp.
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Lou Lessing
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I think his best use is with Medium/Nerve Agent.

Virus-Run-Run-Run sees at least three cards.

Virus-Run-Run-Run-Run sees at least four.

Virus-Run-Demolition Run-Run sees at least five.

Virus-Run-Run-Demolition Run-Run sees seven, which is a pretty significant bump from Josh.
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Nic
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Cheeseburger wrote:
Protspeck wrote:


Saw this coming a mile a way as I'm sure others did too. Makes Scorched Earth not so viable.


"I'm just thankful that the brain damage is reversible." - "Mac

A hint of a future card?
 
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Fake Name
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How about Account Siphon->Maker's Eye->Run Archives->Noterietyx2->Win so who cares about the tags.

How about Parasite on personal workshop, encounter a nasty ICE parasite it and crash it with datasuckers. Just the threat of that may make the corp not actually rez Archer. Not that anyone will play Archer anymore... : /
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Fabrice Dubois
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ERROR
 
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Ben Finkel
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Strey wrote:
"I'm just thankful that the brain damage is reversible." - "Mac

A hint of a future card?


The card itself is sort of a reverse of brain damage... but maybe there will be heals later on, yeah. At the very least, it hints that if we win as the Runner with some brain problems, things aren't sad forever.
 
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Mychal
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Android: Netrunner – Cyber Exodus » Forums » General
Re: Spoilers from a Buried Thread
Pyjam wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
Personal workshop is one of the best cards in the game. Its totally broken. You put out all the things you might need later, and then you stimhack, and you buy the ones you need after they flip their ice up. GG.

Its a free $ every turn, and it allows you access to any icebreaker or other thing you draw, without actually having to pay for it yet. You pay the instant you actually need it.

No surprise, I'm in phase with you.

No surprise, because you're the biggest two "This is the thing that'll ruin Netrunner!" shouters I've ever encountered in these threads.
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Alejandro Galaviz
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Skylar114 wrote:
Pyjam wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
Personal workshop is one of the best cards in the game. Its totally broken. You put out all the things you might need later, and then you stimhack, and you buy the ones you need after they flip their ice up. GG.

Its a free $ every turn, and it allows you access to any icebreaker or other thing you draw, without actually having to pay for it yet. You pay the instant you actually need it.

No surprise, I'm in phase with you.

No surprise, because you're the biggest two "This is the thing that'll ruin Netrunner!" shouters I've ever encountered in these threads.


Quoting for its overpoweredness.
 
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Mychal
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ecalabig wrote:
I really don't understand why emergency shutdown costs 0. Why does a card like vamp cost x credits and requires a committed run on hq where emergency shutdown costs 0 and can be saved until you make a successful run?

I hope this pack doesn't change the game too much.

As is said in the faction description, Criminals are supposed to have much stronger events than the other factions, so comparing Emergency Shutdown to Vamp doesn't really work. Now, why it's so much stronger than Account Siphon is beyond me...
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Lou Lessing
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It's not stronger than Siphon in many situations.

A solid Siphon drains five credits. That's -5 to the corp, +6 to you, plus half an HQ run, minus two clicks to ditch the tags. (Cost is factored into the +6). If we value clicks as credits, and consider the run a waste (Disregard Gabriel Santiago and Desperado triggers, that is), it's net +8. This is ideal, if the corp doesn't have five credits obviously it is quite a bit worse, and the relative wealth of the runner and the corp can make Siphon anywhere from game-winning to pretty bad, but we need to simplify things to compare efficiency.

Emergency Shutdown drains the corp of whatever their highest-cost ICE is, and it costs a click. (It's not a Run event, but the run on HQ lets you access cards, which is a pretty reasonable use of a click.) Best case this is Archer, Janus, or Hadrian's Wall. If one of these exists as a target, Emergency Shutdown is better. If it's a Tollbooth, Wall of Thorns, or Heimdall, it's one click worse. If the best target is anything smaller than that, Emergency Shutdown starts to look pretty bad in comparison.

Of course, there are other factors to thorough analysis of the two.
-Shutdown works with Sneakdoor Beta and Forged Activation Orders.
-Account Siphon also works with Forged Activation Orders, but you have to work a little harder for it.
-Shutdown is at it's worst when it's easiest to use, and it drops off pretty sharply once running HQ becomes expensive. If you need to break a Wall of Static and a Neural Katana to play it, it's suddenly a much worse economic investment. Account Siphon drops off later in the game too, but it doesn't have the problem of being inefficient until it becomes expensive.
-You can chain Emergency Shutdowns together, which is brutal.
-Both can be used to mess up a corp's math, but Shutdown is often narrower in that aspect. It only makes it easier to run a remote if there's an individual piece of ice on it (that the corp can't afford to rez) that's more expensive than the cost of a run on HQ, plus however much money you can earn on the two clicks you spend setting up, to break on it's own. Account Siphon, on the other hand, can turn off unrezzed ice, and gives the runner a giant influx of cash. If you're willing to pass turn tagged, it can be a passable substitute for Stimhack.
-Emergency Shutdown is basically dead if the corp has a bottomless pile of Melange money. If they have 50 credits, putting a Janus-sized hole in that isn't getting you very far. Account Siphon, on the other hand, always at least gives you some cash. Six for four clicks isn't spectacular economy, but it's something. (We count the click to draw the card when evaluating a card as raw economy, because we're comparing to the the baseline of clicking for a credit. This is a simplistic evaluation that ignores both the fact that not all credits are equally valuable (your fifth is bigger than your first and your twentieth) and the value of burst cash in situations with close math, but it's a good measure of long-term value.))
-Shutdown is playable in decks that can't afford Siphon's influence cost.

In my opinion, and awaiting further testing, Account Siphon is a somewhat better card. Emergency Shutdown is very powerful, but I don't think it's as powerful as Siphon.

As for Vamp, it's not an economy card, it's a sabotage card. It costs the runner more money than the corp, but it scales up higher than either of the other two. Also it's quite a bit worse. This game has a lot of power level variance, and a lot of utility variance, and Vamp's relatively weak and incredibly narrow. (It's nowhere near as bad as Woodcutter or the Bodysuit from this pack, whatever it's called.) But if a comparison is to be made, we should remember that the point of Vamp is not efficiency. It is 1. To keep the corp broke if you're made of money. (Problematic, because you're not made of money, the corp is usually richer than the runner, and Anarchs are the poorest of the lot most of the time) or 2. To keep the corp off of the rez cost for a specific Ice by one credit. (In which case it is a more expensive, but more versatile and longer-reaching, Cortez chip. Also not a mindblowing use.)
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Patrick Jamet
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Skylar114 wrote:
Pyjam wrote:
Alexfrog wrote:
Personal workshop is one of the best cards in the game. Its totally broken. You put out all the things you might need later, and then you stimhack, and you buy the ones you need after they flip their ice up. GG.

Its a free $ every turn, and it allows you access to any icebreaker or other thing you draw, without actually having to pay for it yet. You pay the instant you actually need it.

No surprise, I'm in phase with you.

No surprise, because you're the biggest two "This is the thing that'll ruin Netrunner!" shouters I've ever encountered in these threads.

Maybe because we both already stopped playing Netrunner because of this kind of stupid cards.
 
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Andrew B
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Pyjam wrote:
Maybe because we both already stopped playing Netrunner because of this kind of stupid cards.


You will be missed.
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andrewbwm wrote:
Pyjam wrote:
Maybe because we both already stopped playing Netrunner because of this kind of stupid cards.


You will be missed.

I think he meant the original Netrunner. Pyjam isn't leaving the game over these cards, I'm sure. It's valid to be concerned about power levels. This Data Pack is certainly the most powerful thus far.

Fortunately, it's necessary power that compliments the Core Set.
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Patrick Jamet
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Thanks Brady.

It's pathetic to see rude comments receiving thumbs.
Even more, against someone who love this game so much and who's only concerned by the balance of the game, and the preservation of the enjoyment.

Alex and I, we speak from experience. Obviously, we wish we're wrong.
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