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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: [Deck] Accelerated Diagnostics combo - extensive analysis rss

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I'd like to talk about a combo deck that aims at winning the game by scoring 7 points - no Scorches or EMP, so we're in NBN and HB territory. Also, I'm not going to talk about Cerebral Imaging here.
All the credit for figuring out these combos goes to AlexFrog, of couse, I just want to systematize all the knowledge and talk about its practical applications in the decklists.

To be able to pull the basic combo off all you need in your deck is this:

2x Power Shutdown
3x Accelerated Diagnostics
3x Jackson Howard
2x Shipment from SanSan
1x Interns

You can fit this setup in NBN: The World Is Yours* and still have 5 influence left for ice and economy.

Start your turn with three specific cards in hand: Power Shutdown (PS), Jackson Howard (JH) and Accelerated Diagnostics (AD).

BASIC COMBO

Ø1: play Power Shutdown, milling your entire deck.
Ø2: install Jackson Howard and use him to shuffle Interns and 2x Shipment from SanSan (SSS) into R&D
Ø3: play Accelerated Diagnostics: use Intern to install an agenda, and use 2x SSS to put 4 advancement tokens onto it.

With just that, you can score a 4/2 agenda that you don't even have in your hand, for the modest price of 2¥. But you can do better that that, if you have some extra tools, namely:
a) have an extra click* and +1¥ to advance the agenda manually
b) have an AstroScript counter
c) start the turn with SanSan City Grid in play

*An extra click is attainable by either starting the turn with Jackson Howard already in play, or by having a Biotic Labor in hand.
**Also, any card required for the combo (except for Power Shutdown) can be substituted by an extra click and Archived Memories in hand.

The best play you can pull off without having any Biotics in your deck is this:
Start with 2 agenda points scored, Power Shutdown and 2x Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, Jackson Howard in play, and either SanSan City Grid in play or an AstroScript counter. Do this:

Ø1: Power Shutdown
JH -> Interns, Interns, SSS
Ø2: AD -> (JH), (AstroScript), SSS
score Astroscript (via either SanSan City Grid or AstroScript counter)
JH -> Interns, 2x SSS
Ø3: AD - (Project Beale), 2x SSS
put the AstroScript counter on Project Beale (it now has 5 advancement tokens) and score it.

You can also overadvance Project Beale instead, but not with SanSan City Grid.
Note that this play in extremally unlikely, you have to have all the stars aligned in the right way, so don't rely on it, but keep it in mind and know to recognize it. It also requires you to have 2x Interns in your deck.

STANDARD COMBO

This requires you to have 2x Interns, 3x SSS, Biotic Labor and Archived Memories (AM) in your deck, and also raises the cost of the combo by 6 credits (8¥ total). You can fit this setup in NBN: Making News or any Haas-Bioroid deck.

Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Jackson Howard
JH -> Interns, Archived Memories, Biotic Labor
Ø3: AD -> (JH), (AD), Biotic
JH -> Interns, AM, Interns
Ø4: AD -> (JH), (AD), (5/3 agenda)
JH -> 3x SSS
Ø5: AD -> 3x SSS

So with three specific cards in hand and 8¥ you can get an agenda with 6 advancement tokens on it out of nowhere. This is your best bet if you don't want to go all-in on combo and plan to score two 2-pointers first, then finish with a 3-pointer.

Still, you can do better then that if you add any some of those extra conditions (a, b, c) to the equation. In NBN you can get 4 points by doing this:

Ø1: PS
Ø2: JH
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), Biotic
JH
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), Interns (-> AstroScript)
JH
Ø5: AD -> Interns (Beale), SSS (-> Astroscript), SSS (-> Beale)

Now score Astroscript (via either SanSan City Grid or AstroScript counter or manually if you had an extra click), then use the fresh AstroScript counter to score Beale.

In Haas-Bioroid you can't chain AstroScripts, unfortunately, so you either need SanSan City Grid in play or an extra click AND either a 3/2 agenda or Shipment from Kaguya*.

Ø1: PS
Ø2: install 3/2 agenda
JH
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), Biotic
JH
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), Interns (-> 3/2)
JH
Ø5: AD -> Interns (1st 3/2), SSS (-> 2nd 3/2), Kaguya -> score both agendas

*If you don't have Kaguya in you deck, then you can substitute it with Biotic Labor to advance two agendas manually. That's +6¥ (14¥ total).


If you have 2x Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, things get even better!

ADVANCED COMBO

Ø1: PS
Ø2: JH
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), Biotic
JH
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> JH), Interns (-> 3/2), SSS (-> 3/2)
JH
Ø5: AD -> Interns (5/3), 2x SSS (-> 5/3)

You get one agenda with 2 advancement tokens on it and another one with 4 tokens. You can score both if you have:
- SanSan City Grid in play
- [NBN] an extra click OR an AstroScript counter: chain AstroScripts
- [HB] an extra click AND an agenda (3/2 or 5/3) or Kaguya in hand
- 3rd Accelerated Diagnostics in hand to save on AM and instead play SSS (to chain AstroScripts) or Kaguya

You can get even higher than that! I once scored 7 points in one turn! Don't try to do this at home!


Next is some original research on my part, as AlexFrog didn't list the HB combos.

NBN may have AstroScript, but HB has some cool agendas of its own. If you can score one of these 2-pointers, it'll give you a boost:

Efficiency Committee

Ø1: PS
Ø2: JH
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), Interns (-> 3/2)
JH
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), SSS (-> 3/2)
JH
Ø5: AD -> Interns (5/3), 2x SSS (-> 5/3)

You also get an extra click, but unfortunately you cannot use it to advance manually, so you need one of the following:
- SanSan City Grid in play
- 2nd AD
- agenda (3/2 or 5/3)
- Kaguya

Project Vitruvius

The awesomeness of this agenda is twofold.
First, if you overadvance and score it, each agenda counter on it means that you need one less piece to start the combo with.
If you score it with 2 extra counters then you only need the basic setup (PS, JH, AD in hand) to score 5 points in one turn (2 counters = 2 extra AD, or AD+JH).
If you manage to score it with 4 extra counters then you can do the combo with only Power Shutdown in hand and nothing else! (well, and 8¥)

Second, it mitigates the need to have Kaguya in your deck for several variants of the Advanced Combo, as scoring a Vitruvius with two SSS basically gives you an extra AD. Let me explain:

The 2x AD combo:

Ø1: PS
Ø2: JH
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> JH), Biotic, Interns (-> Vitruvius)
JH
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> JH), 2x SSS (-> Vitruvius)
score Vitruvius with 1 extra counter, use it to get AD back
JH
Ø5: AD -> Interns (5/3), 2x SSS (-> 5/3)

So now you don't need an extra click and Kaguya, you only need an extra click and +1¥. Or it's just a solid 4-points finisher if you've manually scored a 5/3 first.

The Committee combo:

Ø1: PS
Ø2: JH
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> AD), Interns (-> Vitruvius)
JH
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> JH), 2x SSS (-> Vitruvius)
score Vitruvius with 1 extra counter, use it to get AD back
JH
Ø5: AD -> Interns (5/3), 2x SSS (-> 5/3)

Unfortunately, you still cannot use the 6th click to advance manually, so you need some help:
- SanSan City Grid in play
- 3rd AD
- Project Vitruvius (Betatest or Priority will NOT work this time)

This means that Kaguya only helps you in 2 cases:
1. Basic setup (PS, JH, AD) + scored Committee + Betatest or Priority in hand.
2. Basic setup + 2x AD in hand (still can be done without Kaguya at a price of +6¥).

Now, Kaguya only costs 1 influence, but so does the 3rd SSS, and I found the latter to be more relevant: it allows you to do the Standard Combo reliably with no extra help, and it also means that if you draw SSS you don't need to use/discard it first before you start the combo.

Deckbuilding in HB

2x Power Shutdown
3x Jackson Howard
2x Shipment from SanSan

This basic setup costs 9 influence, so you still have 6 left. If you want to make the 5-points combo more reliable and versatile, add SanSan City Grid + Power Shutdown + SSS. If you want to be less all-in combo and more fast-advance, add 2x SanSan City Grid.
Note that Custom Biotics can fit all that and even 3x SanSan City Grid, but I'm not sure it's worth losing the economy engine of Engineering the Future. But maybe it is.

Another matter to address is the agenda composition. The fixed set is:
2x Priority Requisition
3x Project Vitruvius
1x Accelerated Beta Test
1x Efficiency Committee

You have 2 more agendas to choose: either 2x Committee for more combo, or 2x Betatest for more fast-advance. My deck currently has one of each.

NBN vs. HB

Yes, NBN has AstroScript. However, HB has:
1) Better economy (Engineering the Future and Green Level Clearance help play Restructure more reliably)
2) Better ice (Eli 1.0 and Rototurret vs. TMI and Draco)
3) Better fast-advance (you can fit 2x SanSan City Grid in HB, but you cannot fit 2x Biotic Labor in NBN)

I didn't playtest the NBN: Making News version yet, so I may be wrong on this. NBN: TWIY* with just the basic combo looks pretty interesting, but needs some remodelling, perhaps more RUSH like Red Herrings and Paper Wall.

I like HB FA/combo as it's much less vulnerable to R&D lock than regular HB FA, and if Noise breaks my combo potential with Clone Chips and Imps then I can still win by regular fast-advance. I'm yet to face a deck that is good at both R&D lock and hand disruption.

I sure hope someone finds this wall of text interesting!
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My current decklist:

Haas-Bioroid: Engineering the Future

Total Cards: (49)

3 Project Vitruvius
3 Accelerated Beta Test
1 Efficiency Committee
2 Priority Requisition

3 Jackson Howard ■ ■ ■
1 SanSan City Grid ■■■

3 Accelerated Diagnostics
1 Archived Memories
3 Biotic Labor
3 Green Level Clearance
3 Hedge Fund
3 Restructure
2 Interns
3 Power Shutdown ■■ ■■ ■■
3 Shipment from SanSan ■ ■ ■

3 Wall of Static
3 Eli 1.0
3 NEXT Bronze
3 Rototurret

=== SUMMARY ===

I can score 5 points in one turn by having 8¥ and Power Shutdown, Jackson Howard and Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, plus two other things:

2nd Accelerated Diagnostics AND
+ SanSan City Grid in play
+ Accelerated Diagnostics (+6¥)
+ one extra click (+1¥)

-OR-

Efficiency Committee scored AND
+ SanSan City Grid
+ Jackson Howard
+ Accelerated Diagnostics
+ Project Vitruvius
+ Priority Requisition

-OR-

SanSan City Grid in play AND two extra clicks

EDIT: Recent changes from the previous version of the deck:
-1 Efficiency Committee
-1 SanSan City Grid
-2 Enigma
+1 Accelerated Beta Test
+1 Power Shutdown
+1 Shipment from SanSan
+1 Wall of Static
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Geoff Pederson
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That deck list is 18 influence. You are missing 3 from SanSan.
 
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Ludovic Gauthier
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Question : How often do you win without having most of your agendas stolen from R&D ?
Because I'm sure you get to play some of the combos from time to time but is it prevalent ?
 
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SourCreamSuicide wrote:
That deck list is 18 influence. You are missing 3 from SanSan.

Fixed, thanks.
NetEldrogo wrote:
Question : How often do you win without having most of your agendas stolen from R&D ?
Because I'm sure you get to play some of the combos from time to time but is it prevalent ?

Well, Eli 1.0 does a good job protecting R&D, but overall I haven't playtested it enough to speak of numbers yet. Most of my OCTGN opponents were testing new Reina decks, and those were not very effective against me so far.
 
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Android: Netrunner » Forums » Strategy
Re: [Deck] Accelerated Diagnostics combo - extensive analysis
Playing around insta-speed Noise

Start with:
- 4 points scored
- basic setup in hand (Power Shutdown, Jackson Howard, Accelerated Diagnostics)
- an extra click (Jackson already in play or Biotic Labor in hand)
- extra Accelerated Diagnostics -OR- extra Jackson already in play

1) +1 Accelerated Diagnostics

Ø1: PS
JH -> 2x Interns, Biotic Labor

1.1) If Noise trashes Biotic Labor, then:
Ø2: AD -> (JH), (5/3)
Ø3: AD -> 3x SSS*, score 3 points, win (total: 3¥)

1.2) If Noise trashes Interns, then:
Ø2: AD -> (JH), Biotic Labor
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> 5/3), 2x SSS
Ø4: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 8¥)
Ø5:

1.3) If Noise desides not to trash anything just yet, then:
Ø2: AD -> (JH), (5/3), Biotic Labor
Ø3: AD -> 3x SSS* - Noise trashes one, you still get 4 tokens
Ø4: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 8¥)
Ø5:

* If you don't have the 3rd SSS in the deck, you can play Shipment from Kaguya or Biotic Labor to advance manually.

NOTE: Instead of fetching Biotic Labor you could get Interns to install SanSan City Grid (+1¥).

2) +1 Jackson Howard in play

Ø1: PS
JH -> 2x Archived Memories, Biotic Labor

2.1) If Noise trashes Biotic Labor, then:
Ø2: AD -> (AD), (Biotic Labor)
Ø3: Biotic Labor
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> 5/3), 2x SSS
Ø5: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 8¥)

2.2) If Noise trashes Archived Memories, then:
Ø2: AD -> (AD), Biotic Labor
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> 5/3), 2x SSS
Ø4: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 8¥)
Ø5:

2.3) If Noise desides not to trash anything just yet, then:
Ø2: AD -> (AD), (5/3), Biotic Labor
Ø3: install 5/3
Ø4: AD -> 3x SSS** - Noise trashes one, you still get 4 tokens
Ø5: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 8¥)

** Kaguya will NOT work here, but a Biotic Labor will (+6¥).

3) If you have BOTH extra pieces you can score 5 points:

Ø1: PS
JH -> 2x Interns, Biotic Labor

3.1) If Noise trashes Biotic Labor, then:
Ø2: AD -> (JH), (Project Vitruvius)
Ø3: AD -> Biotic Labor, 2x SSS
score Vitruvius, use its counter to get Diagnostics
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> 5/3), 2x SSS
Ø5: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 9¥)

3.2) If Noise trashes Interns, then use the other one to install Project Vitruvius, then:
Ø2: AD -> Biotic Labor, (Project Vitruvius)
Ø3: AD -> Interns (-> JH), 2x SSS
score Vitruvius, use its counter to get Diagnostics
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> 5/3), 2x SSS
Ø5: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 9¥)

3.3) If Noise desides not to trash anything just yet, then:
Ø2: AD -> (JH), (Project Vitruvius), Biotic Labor
JH -> 3x SSS**

3.3.1) If Noise trashes one SSS, then:
Ø3: AD -> 2x SSS
score Vitruvius, use its counter to get Diagnostics
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> 5/3), 2x SSS
Ø5: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 9¥)

3.3.2) I Noise desides not to trash anything again, then:
Ø3: AD -> 3x SSS
score Vitruvius, use its 3 counters to get Diagnostics, a 3/2 agenda and Biotic Labor
Ø4: install 5/3
Ø5: Biotic Labor
Ø6: AD -> 3x SSS** - Noise trashes one, you still get 4 tokens
Ø7: advance manually, score 3 points, win (total: 13¥)

** Kaguya will NOT work here, but a Biotic Labor will (+6¥).
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mplain, this is getting insane.

How about you give me your phone number and anytime I'm in a game with Power Shutdown and AD in my hand, I'll call you and you'll tell me what to do. :D
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Alex Rockwell
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DrTall wrote:
mplain, this is getting insane.

How about you give me your phone number and anytime I'm in a game with Power Shutdown and AD in my hand, I'll call you and you'll tell me what to do.


Yep, as noted, this combo requires a lot of experience and calculation.
 
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NBN: The World Is Yours*

2x Power Stundown
3x Accelerated Diagnostics
3x Jackson Howard
3x Shipment form SanSan
2x Interns

This version does not play Biotic Labor, so you still have 5 influence left to spend on economy and ice. It aims at rushing to score 4 points and then finishing with a basic 3-pointer combo. It is possible to pull off the 5-pointer combo, but requires many extra pieces. Generally you shouldn't aim at it, and you can more free to use Jackson in a normal way, hiding agendas and messing with Indexing. Use Interns to reinstall trashed Jacksons or SanSan City Grid. You need to get rid of Interns and Shipments, one way or another, before you start the combo.

Playing dedicated 5/3 agendas is not necessary, so you can take Breaking News and Character Assassination instead if you want. Generally you can use Project Beale to pile up advancement tokens for the win, but if you have SanSan City Grid in play then you can chain-score AstroScripts instead, in this deck there's no real difference.

Extra token refers to having either an AstroScript counter or SanSan City Grid in play, or an extra click (from starting your turn with Jackson Howard already in play) to advance manually (+1¥).

Basic combo

Start with: Power Shutdown, Jackson Howard, Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, 2¥.

Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Jackson Howard
Ø3: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Project Beale), 2x Shipment from SanSan

That's 4 tokens, worth 2 agenda points. Add one extra token and you've got 3 points.

Advanced combo

Start with Jackson Howard in play, Power Shutdown and 2x Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, 3¥.

Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Jackson Howard), Interns (-> AstroScript), Shipment from SanSan
Ø3: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Project Beale), 2x Shipment from SanSan

Add an extra token to the AstroScript, score it, use its counter on Beale, score it - that's 5 points.
If you have one more Jackson in play already, then get another AstroScript instead and use one of the Shipments on it - you can chain-score three 3/2 agendas this way, that's 6 points.

====================

NBN: Making News

+1 Power Stundown
+1 Biotic Labor
+1 Archived Memories

This setup fills all of your 15 influence. 5-pointer combo is just as real as a 3-pointer here.

Standard combo

Start with: Power Shutdown, Jackson Howard, Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, 8¥.

Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Jackson Howard
Ø3: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), Archived Memories (-> Diagnostics), Biotic Labor
Ø4: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), Archived Memories (-> Diagnostics), Interns (-> AstroScript)
Ø5: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> AstroScript), 2x Shipment from SanSan

Add an extra token to chain AstroScripts - that's 4 points.

To easily calculate the combo potential of the pieces that you have, remebmer this: the standard combo gives you an equivalent of Project Beale with 6 advancement tokens on it. Extra clicks and AstroScript counters give you extra tokens. Then, there is a total of nine cards that you can play with Diagnostics, and each of them can be chaged to Shipment from SanSan if you have extra combo pieces to start with. So, each of the following is potentially worth 2 tokens, or 1 agenda point:
- extra Accelerated Diagnostics in hand
- extra Jackson Howard in play (or in hand + an extra click to install)
- AstroScript or Beale in play
- SanSan City Grid* in play

*SanSan by itself is worth only 1 token, but combined with anything else from this list will give you 2 tokens.

So if you start with Jackson Howard already in play and an extra Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, that's 6+1+2=9 tokens on the Beale scale, equals to 5 agenda points. Add Biotic Labor, SanSan Cty Grid and another Accelerated Diagnostics, that's 9+1+1+2=13 tokens, equals to 7 agenda points!

=== SUMMARY ===

Standard combo = Power Shutdown, Jackson Howard, Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, 8¥ = 6 tokens

Jackson already in play = +1 token
Biotic Labor in hand = +1 token
AstroScript counter = +1 token

+1 Accelerated Diagnostics = +2 tokens
+1 Jackson already in play = +2 tokens
SanSan City Grid in play = +2 tokens**

Jackson / SanSan City Grid / 3/2 agenda in hand + 1 extra click = +2 tokens

**Add last. If subtotal is less than 8, add +1 token. If subtotal is 8 or more, add +2 tokens

# of tokens / 2 - 1 = # of points
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Haas-Bioroid

3x Power Stundown
3x Accelerated Diagnostics
3x Jackson Howard
3x Shipment form SanSan
2x Interns
1x SanSan City Grid

Standard combo - 3 points

Start with: Power Shutdown, Jackson Howard, Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, 8¥.

Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Jackson Howard
Ø3: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), Archived Memories (-> Diagnostics), Biotic Labor
Ø4: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), Archived Memories (-> Diagnostics), Interns (-> 5/3 agenda)
Ø5: Accelerated Diagnostics -> 3x Shipment from SanSan

Advanced combo - 4-5 points

Start with: Power Shutdown Jackson Howard, 2x Accelerated Diagnostics in hand, 8¥.

Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Jackson Howard
Ø3: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), Interns (-> Vitruvius), Biotic Labor
Ø4: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), 2x Shipment from SanSan
score Vitruvius with 1 extra counter, use it to get Diagnostics back
Ø5: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Agenda), 2x Shipment from SanSan

That's 4 points. Add an extra click or SanSan City Grid and that's 5 points.

Super combo - 7 points

Start with: Power Shutdown, 3x Accelerated Diagnostics, Biotic Labor in hand, Jackson Howard and SanSan City Grid in play, 8¥.

Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Biotic Labor
Ø3: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), Interns (-> 3/2), Shipment from SanSan
Ø4: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> Howard), Interns (-> 3/2), Shipment from SanSan
Ø5: Accelerated Diagnostics -> Interns (-> 5/3), 2x Shipment from SanSan
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Martin Presley
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mplain wrote:
hoobajoo wrote:
start a thread and provide a decklist and show it.

Only because you ask so nicely
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1088803
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1088541

P.S. I am not really insisting that you change anything in your post. It's just, like, for your information. No pressure


Crossposting from http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/14329617

Ah, I saw those, didn't realize it was you. I didn't pay it much attention, since none of your articles explain anything about the deck, other than just listing the combos the deck can do in the best case scenario. Can you explain how the deck pilots or what the strategy is here besides what to do on the last turn of the game. I want to know if this deck is a real thing, but from where I'm sitting, it just looks too slow and unreliable with not enough room for ICE. Could you talk about how you navigate the early game, and how you deal with common runner matchups?
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hoobajoo wrote:
Ah, I saw those, didn't realize it was you. I didn't pay it much attention, since none of your articles explain anything about the deck, other than just listing the combos the deck can do in the best case scenario. Can you explain how the deck pilots or what the strategy is here besides what to do on the last turn of the game. I want to know if this deck is a real thing, but from where I'm sitting, it just looks too slow and unreliable with not enough room for ICE. Could you talk about how you navigate the early game, and how you deal with common runner matchups?

I am not a Jehovah's Witness. The more people think this deck is junky and unreliable, the less people say that it's broken and needs to be banned
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Simon Webster
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mplain wrote:

I am not a Jehovah's Witness. The more people think this deck is junky and unreliable, the less people say that it's broken and needs to be banned


I think it's janky and unreliable and broken and needs to be banned
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Peter Kopac
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hoobajoo wrote:
Can you explain how the deck pilots or what the strategy is here besides what to do on the last turn of the game.


Basically, you play the same as other versions of HB, but your matchpoint is different - instead of getting to 5 points and an agenda+biotic/archived in hand, you're going for 2 points and more specific pieces in hand. It's tougher to disrupt though, due to the duplicity of combo pieces and the "pull from archives" property the deck wants anyway. Basically, you need to Demo Run his hand just as he's getting enough pieces (too soon won't do anything, too late will be... too late). Depending on which combo pieces you hit, you might actually have to pull it off twice.

Oh, and if the scored 2-pointer is a Vitruvius that got overadvanced, you're somewhat in trouble. The best you can hope in that case is to push the match point back to 4 points scored or so.

You could also go ultra-deep dig with Demo Run, but the problem with that is that if you fail (because he drew too many agendas already, for instance), you're sorta doing his work for him

(on a side note - it's a good thing these decks are popping up everywhere like mushrooms after a rain: it makes Anarch a much better choice, which I love )
 
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Tarquelne
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WrenHong wrote:

I think it's janky and unreliable and broken and needs to be banned ;)


Oh, come on. This combo is perfect for when you want to play something like 1/2 a game of Netrunner then finish it with a card-matching/procedural order exercise.
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Chris MacLeod
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I played three games using Kit against mplain and his HB today, going 2-1.

Game 1, I ran at everything and scored 4 points while he got a bunch of money and Biotic'd out the first 2 pointer. Then he tried to go off on his 6th turn, but misplayed and whiffed the combo, ended up with 4 points and a Priority Requisition with 4 counters on it and immediately lost the game.

Game 2, I landed an early Account Siphon through his single HQ ICE and bankrupted him, giving me time to follow it up with a Same Old Thing and eventually a 2nd copy of Account Siphon. Then I just ran everything until I scored out.

Game 3, he immediately put three ICE on HQ and let me pummel R&D for a while while getting a ton of money, and then scored an agenda with SanSan City Grid. I trashed it, he brought it back with Interns and I trashed it again, and then two more times against another Interns and Archived Memories. HQ was prohibitively expensive with the three ICE and while I was hitting R&D regularly and got 5 points, he was able to overdraw and just play Biotic repeatedly for the win.

My main thought playing against this deck is that only 13 small ICE is a significant weakness, all the more so against Kit who punishes single ICE servers but I assume Andy with Crypsis would be just as troublesome. Not building a remote helps, but an ICE destruction deck could probably blow up every single ICE this deck puts down.

Overall I felt the list was not that different than normal HBFA - strong but not degenerate and not very fun to play against. In a tournament I would take a normal deck over this because I am too dumb to execute this combo reliably after five hours of Swiss.

I can see how this could break R&D lock more effectively and you can steal wins against people unfamiliar with the concept, but the tradeoff is the low ICE count can make you a sitting duck if you get a bad hand.
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mplain
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Tarquelne wrote:
Oh, come on. This combo is perfect for when you want to play something like 1/2 a game of Netrunner then finish it with a card-matching/procedural order exercise.

I'm still not sure whom I don't like to see more, Noise or Whizzard. Reina is a non-issue, though.

Oh, and yes, a good Kit, like the one kiv6 got, is bad news too.
 
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Peter Kopac
Slovakia
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mplain wrote:

I'm still not sure whom I don't like to see more, Noise or Whizzard.


I suspect it depends on the skill level of the Runner player. Noise will more or less screw you independently of player input, Whizzard needs smart running (but will be absolutely devastating when done right). Having your SanSans trashed for 2 and Jacksons for free is not fun, I suspect.
 
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Peekay wrote:
I suspect it depends on the skill level of the Runner player. Noise will more or less screw you independently of player input, Whizzard needs smart running (but will be absolutely devastating when done right). Having your SanSans trashed for 2 and Jacksons for free is not fun, I suspect.

Regarding the skill level involved, I actually think it's the other way around
Whizzard doesn't need much smarts to keep trashing every Jackson and SanSan he encounters. And I actually rely on those slowing the runner down economically.
Noise, on the other hand, needs to know not to use his Clone Chips before the combo starts - and that slows HIM down!
 
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mplain
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So the runner ended his turn and I smiled carnivorously, ready to score a 5-pointer. And then for my mandatory draw I got Interns. Damn!

I tried to figure out how to score it regardless, but couldn't, so I took this screenshot and passed the turn, discarding Interns, and on his turn the runner trashed the Jackson that was already in play. Next turn for my mandatory draw I got Archived Memories...

After the game I looked at the screenshot and realized I could pull this off for 18¥. Then I looked some more I found a way to do this for 14¥.

Can you?



P.S. The card in the remote is another Jackson.

P.P.S. The decklist is here
 
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Nelson Wong
Australia
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mplain wrote:
So the runner ended his turn and I smiled carnivorously, ready to score a 5-pointer. And then for my mandatory draw I got Interns. Damn!

I tried to figure out how to score it regardless, but couldn't, so I took this screenshot and passed the turn, discarding Interns, and on his turn the runner trashed the Jackson that was already in play. Next turn for my mandatory draw I got Archived Memories...

After the game I looked at the screenshot and realized I could pull this off for 18¥. Then I looked some more I found a way to do this for 14¥.

Can you?



P.S. The card in the remote is another Jackson.

P.P.S. The decklist is here


Spoiler (click to reveal)

Biotic
PS
JH
Use JH
AD -> Interns (-> JH), AM (-> Vitruvius), Biotic
Use JH
Vitruvius
AD -> Interns (-> PR), SSS x2 on Vitruvius
Score Vitruvius -> AD
Use JH
AD -> SSS x 3 (-> 5/3)


13 creds needed.
 
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Peter Kopac
Slovakia
Bratislava
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mplain wrote:

Regarding the skill level involved, I actually think it's the other way around
Whizzard doesn't need much smarts to keep trashing every Jackson and SanSan he encounters. And I actually rely on those slowing the runner down economically.
Noise, on the other hand, needs to know not to use his Clone Chips before the combo starts - and that slows HIM down!


You do realize there's an entire game (ok, half a game) preceeding your combo turn, right? The goal here is to not let you get to your combo setup in the first place.
 
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Peekay wrote:
You do realize there's an entire game (ok, half a game) preceeding your combo turn, right? The goal here is to not let you get to your combo setup in the first place.

And how exactly will "Noise more or less screw me independently of player input" in that first part of the game? By milling combo pieces? I haven't found that to be that big of a problem so far.

_Flickerwisp wrote:
13 creds needed.

Hey, that one is good too! Mine is a little different, but I'll keep that trick of yours in mind
 
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Nelson Wong
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Also possible if there are no Vitruvius left in your deck. It just means that it costs 14 creds instead.

Basically, having 2 AD in hand with a Biotic and Jackson in play with the full combo makes ANYTHING possible
 
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_Flickerwisp wrote:
Also possible if there are no Vitruvius left in your deck. It just means that it costs 14 creds instead.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
Ø1: Power Shutdown
Ø2: Jackson Howard
Ø3: Biotic
Ø4: AD -> Interns (-> Betatest), SSS, Biotic
Ø5: AD -> Interns (-> Priority), 2x SSS
Ø6: advance Betatest, score
Ø7: advance Priority, score

13 creds, 12 with EtF rebate.

_Flickerwisp wrote:
Basically, having 2 AD in hand with a Biotic and Jackson in play with the full combo makes ANYTHING possible


I just realized that drawing Interns doesn't break the combo at all, it just makes it more expensive by 4 credits. When you would play Diagnostics for 2x Interns, just play it for Interns + Biotic, then use 2 extra clicks to play 2nd Interns from hand.
 
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