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Android: Netrunner» Forums » General

Subject: Pre-announcement: A:NR Web-based game engine rss

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Mark Roach
United States
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Hi, folks. I wanted to announce an UNOFFICIAL really early, alpha-quality, super-not-ready-yet, very bug filled (I think I've made my point) implementation of Android: Netrunner for web clients.

Here's a fairly basic demo of the interface to give you an idea of what it looks like:

(edit) REDACTED

At the moment, I am 13 cards away from having the core set completely done. I hope to have the code repository ready for brave testers in the next week or so. In the meantime, I have put together a video demonstrating some of the basic features, and would love to hear people's input on interface suggestions (especially regarding not slowing stuff down during runs, but allowing all timing phases to be acted upon).

Tech specs for the interested:
This is currently about 14k lines of python on the server, running with Tornado and websockets. The UI is a couple thousand lines of javascript doing really terrible DOM manipulation.

Big TODOs before release:
- allow trashing programs/server contents on install
- actually make expose effects work in the UI
- handle the absolutely ridiculous timing of conditional static abilities
- do something cool when somebody wins the game

Stuff I would like to do soon:
- allow drag and drop to create new servers/install in a server
- host a site with a lobby for game creation
- add chat between players to the game log

So, anyway, I've been working on this for a couple months and it's in no position to replace OCTGN play for anyone anytime soon, but I hope you all find it interesting. Thanks!

-mrroach

edit: Umm. Nothing to see here. Move along whistle
edit again: This is unofficial and has no affiliation with FFG. I wrote it while drinking bourbon on my back porch
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Bryan Blumklotz
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Interesting.

Are the card images hosted locally?

Deck building for the web game and online deck builders how are those integrated?

Will there be deck legality checks?
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Mark Roach
United States
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At the moment, the web server is hosting all card images. One of the features I would like to implement (in order to keep from getting sued) is to allow the user to specify the source of the images, whether that be netrunnerdb or a local filesystem or whatever.
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Mark Roach
United States
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Oh, and regarding deck-checking: yeah, that's pretty easy to implement. Just hasn't been at the top of my list so far.

edit: I'm currently supporting .o8d files and plain text card listings.
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Conor Hickey
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Bryan Blumklotz
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mrroach wrote:
At the moment, the web server is hosting all card images. One of the features I would like to implement (in order to keep from getting sued) is to allow the user to specify the source of the images, whether that be netrunnerdb or a local filesystem or whatever.


You are probably going to need proxies for cards less than 6 months out from release date if you host them on the web.

You will need to blur the text on any card that is less than 6 months out from release date (that is what OCTGN does with the image files) if you host locally. This would give the option for players to "uncensor" those files for themselves personally.
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Cedric Bertolini
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Saracenus wrote:
mrroach wrote:
At the moment, the web server is hosting all card images. One of the features I would like to implement (in order to keep from getting sued) is to allow the user to specify the source of the images, whether that be netrunnerdb or a local filesystem or whatever.


You are probably going to need proxies for cards less than 6 months out from release date if you host them on the web.

You will need to blur the text on any card that is less than 6 months out from release date (that is what OCTGN does with the image files) if you host locally. This would give the option for players to "uncensor" those files for themselves personally.

Alternatively, you can hotlink to cardgamedb, which has the card images in good quality (430x600) the day the packs are released. No blurring, no copyright infrigement, FFG puts the images online itself.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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Amazing. My hats off to you, Sir. This is THE Android:Netrunner interface to be used for this game. I absolutely love those credits on Adonis and the decision to go visual instead of digital for those small things.
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Andrew Keddie
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This looks better than OCTGN already - just for simple things like specifying which server you're installing ICE on, and the game knowing what order you encounter it in etc.

Do you currently have a method for hiding face-down cards in Archives from the Runner until they run there? That was the only major thing I saw which isn't covered by your 'to be implemented', but it also never came up in the vid so maybe it's already in?
 
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John Thornby
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Looks like a nice start!
Another thing I noticed was that remotes servers continued to exist even when there was nothing there, i.e. after a naked agenda was scored or Adonis trashed.
 
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Maybe Next Time
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Looks great!

To clarify - this is your own project with no support from FFG? My eyes watered up initially as I thought we had the first showings of an official FFG client.
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Mike G
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Do want.
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Nushura
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Android: Netrunner » Forums » General
Re: Pre-announcement: A:NR Web-based game engine
I think I saw you discussing this on Google plus. The question is the same as I did in there....where do we apply for a spot?
 
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Steven Tu
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It looks greeeeat but of course...

1. Is it licensed? FFG's trademark/copyright/rights within law/blah extends beyond "images and icon" - the game itself as well. Basically, they can stop it if they want to, if you haven't gotten their permission.

2. While I applaud the decision to keep tokens as single tokens, it's very clunky. I'd at least provide an option of using numerals next to/above single tokens to show how many there are on cards, etc.

3. Why have the hand soooo far away from the rest of the stuff? Save some screen real estate. Make the camera free roam or auto-zoom, that could be more friendly.

4. Why not let the runner and corp sides' starting cards (draw, discard piles, identities) be lined up, and go from there? Right now the "diagonal" arrangement is pretty weird, tons of empty space in the middle unnecessarily.

5. Kudos!
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Ian Toltz
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Tuism wrote:
1. Is it licensed? FFG's trademark/copyright/rights within law/blah extends beyond "images and icon" - the game itself as well. Basically, they can stop it if they want to, if you haven't gotten their permission.


Rules can't be copyrighted. A particular expression of the rules of a game might be copyrightable, but you can't copyright the rules themselves.

FFG certainly has copyright on all the artwork, including things like the tokens, and likely has trademarks on things like the name, terminology, and such.

But hypothetically, you could make a game identical to ANR (even down to using the exact same mechanics and cards with different names).
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Steven Tu
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Asmor wrote:
Tuism wrote:
1. Is it licensed? FFG's trademark/copyright/rights within law/blah extends beyond "images and icon" - the game itself as well. Basically, they can stop it if they want to, if you haven't gotten their permission.


Rules can't be copyrighted. A particular expression of the rules of a game might be copyrightable, but you can't copyright the rules themselves.

FFG certainly has copyright on all the artwork, including things like the tokens, and likely has trademarks on things like the name, terminology, and such.

But hypothetically, you could make a game identical to ANR (even down to using the exact same mechanics and cards with different names).


Really? And that's defendable in a court? Wow it's a strange world we live in.
 
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Ian Toltz
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Tuism wrote:
Asmor wrote:
Tuism wrote:
1. Is it licensed? FFG's trademark/copyright/rights within law/blah extends beyond "images and icon" - the game itself as well. Basically, they can stop it if they want to, if you haven't gotten their permission.


Rules can't be copyrighted. A particular expression of the rules of a game might be copyrightable, but you can't copyright the rules themselves.

FFG certainly has copyright on all the artwork, including things like the tokens, and likely has trademarks on things like the name, terminology, and such.

But hypothetically, you could make a game identical to ANR (even down to using the exact same mechanics and cards with different names).


Really? And that's defendable in a court? Wow it's a strange world we live in.


Copyright law protects artistic expressions.

Trademark law protects identity.

Patent law protects inventions.

The rules of a game are facts. Nothing protects facts.

Of course, you can be sued for any reason, and even winning a lawsuit can be crippling if you're not well-funded and the other guy is.

EDIT: Of course, I'm not a lawyer. Yadda yadda. See also http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/493249/mythbusting-game-desi...
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Jeff Gum
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Alsciende wrote:
Saracenus wrote:
mrroach wrote:
At the moment, the web server is hosting all card images. One of the features I would like to implement (in order to keep from getting sued) is to allow the user to specify the source of the images, whether that be netrunnerdb or a local filesystem or whatever.


You are probably going to need proxies for cards less than 6 months out from release date if you host them on the web.

You will need to blur the text on any card that is less than 6 months out from release date (that is what OCTGN does with the image files) if you host locally. This would give the option for players to "uncensor" those files for themselves personally.

Alternatively, you can hotlink to cardgamedb, which has the card images in good quality (430x600) the day the packs are released. No blurring, no copyright infrigement, FFG puts the images online itself.


Don't do this. Hotlinking images directly from other websites causes the image to load from their servers, which on a program like this one would absolutely balloon cardgamedb's bandwidth usage. It's called image leeching, and its generally frowned upon by pretty much everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking
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Ian Toltz
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Tekkactus wrote:
Alsciende wrote:
Saracenus wrote:
mrroach wrote:
At the moment, the web server is hosting all card images. One of the features I would like to implement (in order to keep from getting sued) is to allow the user to specify the source of the images, whether that be netrunnerdb or a local filesystem or whatever.


You are probably going to need proxies for cards less than 6 months out from release date if you host them on the web.

You will need to blur the text on any card that is less than 6 months out from release date (that is what OCTGN does with the image files) if you host locally. This would give the option for players to "uncensor" those files for themselves personally.

Alternatively, you can hotlink to cardgamedb, which has the card images in good quality (430x600) the day the packs are released. No blurring, no copyright infrigement, FFG puts the images online itself.


Don't do this. Hotlinking images directly from other websites causes the image to load from their servers, which on a program like this one would absolutely balloon cardgamedb's bandwidth usage. It's called image leeching, and its generally frowned upon by pretty much everyone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inline_linking


You realize the guy you're admonishing runs NetrunnerDB, the best Netrunner site on the Internet, which provides an awesome API and which allows hotlinking to images hosted thereupon...

...right?
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Mike G
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Asmor wrote:
Tuism wrote:
Asmor wrote:
Tuism wrote:
1. Is it licensed? FFG's trademark/copyright/rights within law/blah extends beyond "images and icon" - the game itself as well. Basically, they can stop it if they want to, if you haven't gotten their permission.


Rules can't be copyrighted. A particular expression of the rules of a game might be copyrightable, but you can't copyright the rules themselves.

FFG certainly has copyright on all the artwork, including things like the tokens, and likely has trademarks on things like the name, terminology, and such.

But hypothetically, you could make a game identical to ANR (even down to using the exact same mechanics and cards with different names).


Really? And that's defendable in a court? Wow it's a strange world we live in.


Copyright law protects artistic expressions.

Trademark law protects identity.

Patent law protects inventions.

The rules of a game are facts. Nothing protects facts.

Of course, you can be sued for any reason, and even winning a lawsuit can be crippling if you're not well-funded and the other guy is.

EDIT: Of course, I'm not a lawyer. Yadda yadda. See also http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/493249/mythbusting-game-desi...


I can only speak for Australia, but there are also patents and the Designs Act to consider, as well as 'passing off' and misleading or deceptive conduct.
 
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Cedric Bertolini
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@Asmor /bow

@Tekkactus Puts things in context. Users would load images once, assuming they didn't already load them from Cardgamedb (ok, that part is unlikely since, for some reason unknown to me, those images are hidden on Cardgamedb). Then the images will be cached and won't be queried again. Cardgamedb is a very popular site and is run by FFG. One can assume its bandwidth can accomodate a few more visits. It would *not* "balloon" cardgamedb's bandwidth usage. Cache control exists for a reason. Moreover, bandwidth usage is not really a problem for modern webservers. Processing power (workload) is the bottleneck of most dynamic websites.

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James Rowlinson
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I need this in my life, I have only just got ANR but still, I NEED THIS.. Happy to beta test once ready for that. I enjoyed beta testing Frozen Synapse so much I should really put forward for more testing..
 
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Scott Rubin
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Do not make this. I can avoid playing on OCTGN because the UI is so godawful I get sick just looking at it. If there is actually a good way to play Netrunner online, I fear I will play all day and night. Please, FFG. Cease and Desist this guy before he ruins my life!
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Thomas R
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mrroach wrote:
Tech specs for the interested:
This is currently about 14k lines of python on the server, running with Tornado and websockets. The UI is a couple thousand lines of javascript doing really terrible DOM manipulation.


I'm a big fan of Tornado, and it's just about the lightest Python-based websockets framework out there, so that seems like a good choice for this. What are you using for a datastore? I presume something like MySQL, but I've seen a number of lightweight Tornado apps backed on key-value stores like Redis, so I was curious.

On the JS side, are you using any frameworks/libraries? I would guess that something like jQuery is a requirement, but this looks like the sort of thing that would be pretty well-suited to Backbone, or maybe Angular, to drive the data-to-interface stuff.

Anyway, it looks really good so far! Really, really good.
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Jeff Gum
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Alsciende wrote:


@Asmor /bow

@Tekkactus Puts things in context. Users would load images once, assuming they didn't already load them from Cardgamedb (ok, that part is unlikely since, for some reason unknown to me, those images are hidden on Cardgamedb). Then the images will be cached and won't be queried again. Cardgamedb is a very popular site and is run by FFG. One can assume its bandwidth can accomodate a few more visits. It would *not* "balloon" cardgamedb's bandwidth usage. Cache control exists for a reason. Moreover, bandwidth usage is not really a problem for modern webservers. Processing power (workload) is the bottleneck of most dynamic websites.



Regardless, it's poor form to use someone else's bandwidth, especially if he didn't get permission to do so. I will concede that the overlap in users between this and cardgamedb would probably be significant, though.
 
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