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Wolfgang Zelller
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After having seen the stunningly beautiful art from Dathkadan for the PnP-version of MoV (Thank you so much, we can only imagine how much work this has been!) and after reading the raving reviews of the game, me and a friend of mine knew we had to build this game.

The Dathkadan MoV build is not the average PnP project. Not only is it huge, but it also is giving you some problems when you want to tackle it:

How can you print the map?
How can you punch the round counters?
Where and how to mount the map and the other playing pieces?
Where do you get the wooden discs for the counters?

... and several more.

After I wrote here in a posting that we want to build this game, I have received several mails from fellow geeks with questions about how we tried to solve some of the problems. So now I decided to write down a report to answer those questions and maybe show some alternative solutions for the problems involved. If anybody finds mistakes or errors in the collected informations here or has better ideas than the methods we have been using, you are very welcome to chime in.
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Part I: Download:

First of course we made downloads of all the needed files. That is the first problem since even if you know the game, there are so many files involved and it is hard to see which ones are needed.

I suppose others who want to build this game will encounter the same problem at the beginning, so I will try to clear things up. You will find here links to all the download pages for the needed files. The reason why I will not post direct links to the files is, because this way you can thumb the files before downloading them. It is the least you can do for the awesome work of Dathkadan.

Let's start with the files you will absolutely need to build the base game:

Quote:
The map:

MoV Custom Map v2.jpg

plus the corrections that you need to photoshop into the map file above (which is what we did):

MoV Map_V4_Errata_Airhome.jpg
MoV Map_V4_Errata_Bypass.jpg

or you might use this file with the correction already included, but most likely with another iteration of jpg-compression:

MoV_Custom_Map_v3.jpg

The ship boards for the players:

MoV Custom Ships v2.zip

The market boards:

MoV Market.zip

And finally

The counters:

MoV Counters 1 v2.zip
MoV Counters 2.zip
MoV Counters 3 v2.zip
MoV Counters 4 v2.zip
MoV Counters 5.zip
MoV Counters 6.zip

plus a correction file for the Laser chits from Counter file 4:

MoV Counters 4 front v2.png


Recommended optional files for the base game:

Quote:
Reference mats:

MoV Player Mats 1.jpg
MoV Player Mats 2.jpg
MoV Player Mats 3.jpg
MoV Relic Reference.pdf

Folding ship standees:
(If you don't want to use space-shiples or ship-models)

MoV Ship Standees.zip

Space credits:
(If you don't want to use poker chips as we do or use any other available gaming currency)

MoV Money 1.zip
MoV Money 2.zip
MoV Currency Back.pdf


Expansions are not needed for the base game, but if you start building, you might as well go all the way (as we did):

Quote:
Ersatz Relics Expansion:

MoV Counters 7.zip

Mining Colonies Variant:

MoV Counters 8.pdf

Special Crew Expansion:

MoV Counters 9 Crew Exp.pdf

Variant Ships:

MoV Variant Ships.zip

MoV Random Events variant:

MoV Events part 1.zip
MoV Events part 2.zip

Lost Planet variant (both versions):

MoV Lost Planet A v2.zip
Mov Lost Planet B.zip


Now there are some new expansions with Dathkadan's art made and uploaded by Slev, but since those were not available when we did our build, I won't include them here for now. I might do that later after having seen them, if you already know those expansion, feel free to add a post with links and explanations.

Second part (with the first pics) will follow this evening.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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wolfzell wrote:
Now there are some new expansions with Dathkadan's art made and uploaded by Slev, but since those were not available when we did our build, I won't include them here for now. I might do that later after having seen them, if you already know those expansion, feel free to add a post with links and explanations.


Actually, most of those are not "new" so much as they are "old and missed-out", their being held in low regard I made them purely out of completeness.
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Slev wrote:
Actually, most of those are not "new" so much as they are "old and missed-out", their being held in low regard I made them purely out of completeness.

Ok, sorry, this has been a very poor choice of words from my side.

Then these are some of the severely underestimated and almost unavailable classic variants you have been missing for a long time, now remixed and brought back to you in great glory by Slev featuring the amazing new art from Dathkadan.

Better?
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Slev Sleddeddan
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wolfzell wrote:
Slev wrote:
Actually, most of those are not "new" so much as they are "old and missed-out", their being held in low regard I made them purely out of completeness.

Ok, sorry, this has been a very poor choice of words from my side.

Then these are some of the severely underestimated and almost unavailable classic variants you have been missing for a long time, now remixed and brought back to you in great glory by Slev featuring the amazing new art from Dathkadan.

Better?


Much. You may now bask in the warming light shining from my rear-end

I'm not claiming they're any good really, all I did was hack the art together for the new set.
Hell, the racial ships mod is meant to be dire! but I AM a completest, even if it means making another 372 discs. *sob*
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Part II: Planning and ordering the discs

For the build of this huge game we found the need for a compromise between 3 interdependent factors: Quality, price and the amount of work:

A higher budget might get us a better build and less work to do ourselves.

More time available for work might result in a better build and save us money.

But our wish for top quality will ask for a higher budget and more work.

We needed to find our own "sweet spot" here.

Planning started in july and we wanted to work on the build in october. Actually work started in november. That seemed to be plenty of time to prepare and get the problems solved.

So we began analyzing the files and thinking about how to build the counters by making some prototypes using wooden discs that I sawed myself from some dowels. Now unpainted wooden discs might not look that cool for a space game, so they will need to get painted. And afterwards we would also need to give the painted discs a finish... Well, sawing, painting and finishing 1000 discs looked like a hell lot of work. So we went for a higher budget and simply ordered painted wooden discs.

Since the stickers and the map look very colorful, we wanted to cut down on work further by simplifying the build and only use black discs for all 0,75" stickers. This also helped a little with the budget as the number of discs of a single type increased, resulting in a better price.

With the prototypes we made, we noted that if you will be using 19mm discs (=0,75") and 19mm stickers, the borders of the stickers will get bruised when playing and they did not look that well in the first place when you can see the edges of the sticker on the top and the bottom. These prototypes looked a lot like the counters on pictures from other builds. For example here:



To avoid this we stepped up to 21mm discs. This way the stickers will have a little space all around them, which will function as some kind of protection for the edge of the paper and a visual frame for the sticker. In the end we even sized down the stickers to 18mm to strengthen this effect. For the bigger discs we simply sized down the stickers to 3mm less than the disc diameter. Here are some samples how the finished 21mm discs looked like (other details about their production will follow):



For the culture discs it seemed useful to be able to recognize the 1,25" culture discs by the color on the map and we also wanted different colors for the 1" deeds discs that are played on the ship cards so players can calculate their worth without looking at the numbers. So this is a picture of some of the discs before applying stickers:



After these considerations we ended up with the following numbers for the discs to order:

Base game:

21mm discs (normal game counters):
378 black

25mm discs (deeds):
33 violet (deeds worth 200$)
6 orange (deeds worth 100$)

31mm discs (race counters):
14 one each of 14 different colors: (Tan, turquoise, green, orange, bright blue, yellow, yellow-green, blue, brown, grey, violet, black, pink, red)

For all the expansions mentioned above:

21mm discs:
104 black

25mm discs:
12 white (mining deeds worth 50$)
3 yellow (crew)
3 green (crew)
3 blue (crew)
3 orange (crew)
2 pink (crew)
3 violet (deeds)

31mm discs:
1 white

Total disc shopping list:

21mm:
482 black

25mm:
36 violet
12 white
9 orange
3 yellow
3 green
3 blue
2 pink

31mm:
1 tan
1 turquoise
1 green
1 chartreuse (yellow-green)
1 orange
1 bright blue
1 yellow
1 blue
1 brown
1 grey
1 violet
1 black
1 pink
1 red
1 white

Together we ordered 1200 black 21mm discs for 2 builds (and to be able to expand if necessary) and the colored discs listed. Plus at least 1 or 2 spare discs for all the other sizes and colors.

Now where did we get them? We searched the web and after getting some offers to compare the price for the 1200 black discs we ordered them at www.spielematerial.de and the bigger discs at http://bedi-spielematerial.eu.

The discs from spielematerial.de took 2 months to arrive (which first did not seem like a problem regarding the time we had until we wanted to start building), but when they finally arrived, we noted that the quality of the discs was very poor. Amoung 1200 discs there almost wasn't a single one that did not have at least slightly damaged edges. Here you can see a picture of some of the discs and these were by far not the worst:



Normally we would have sent them back in an instant. But after 2 months waiting we did not want to delay our time plan for another 2 months, so we kept them. The black color helped a lot in the end, because fortunately this way the damaged edges are not that easy to see on the finished counters.

The bigger discs from Bedi were much better. Some of them also had some dents at the edges, but not nearly as bad as the black discs from spielematerial.de. And even better: Bedi carries 12 of the 15 colors needed. So we ordered white discs for the three colors that are not available there (turquoise, chartreuse and bright-blue) and painted these ourselves.

If you think about making your counters the same way as we did, I guess it wouldn't hurt to ask Bedi if they can also deliver the black 21mm discs since they only have 19mm discs in their online shop.

... to be continued...
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Chris D'Andrea
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I got all my disc's at http://caseyswood.com/ this is the place to get wood discs if you live in the states. like 8 cents a piece for the majority of the game. I only had to sand maybe 5 or 6 out of 600 discs

Yes they are all natural wood so they must be colored but I just dyed all my discs violet for now. I may color the edges of some at a future date.
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Michael Hasenstab
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lordunborn wrote:
I just dyed all my discs violet for now.


What is the general consensus for the best way to do this? Another fellow and I are going to tackle making 2 of these and have the discs on order. I would love to dye them instead of painting all of them.
 
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daniel silverthorne
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Thank you for doing this project in the forums. I have already started gathering the goods before this started, but will hold till this has finished. I am also interested in this dye method. i have not used it before and would like to incorporate it into other projects as well. Again thank you all for doing this, as i am new to the PnP part of using disks. I have used cards before, but would like to evolve to the disk.
 
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Wolfgang Zelller
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lordunborn wrote:
I got all my disc's at http://caseyswood.com/ this is the place to get wood discs if you live in the states. like 8 cents a piece for the majority of the game. I only had to sand maybe 5 or 6 out of 600 discs

Yes they are all natural wood so they must be colored but I just dyed all my discs violet for now. I may color the edges of some at a future date.

We have considered buying natural wooden discs also at Caseys after reading the forum here. But finally, maybe due to the amount of 1200 discs, we payed about 9 cents (Euro-cents though) a piece for the colored discs with a lacquer finish. So maybe the quality wasn't so bad after all, considering the price.

I do own the equipment for spraypainting, but even then, if we can only save 2 cents per disc, we would have saved only 12 Euro per game, but would have to buy paint and lacquer finish and above that there would have been a hell lot of additional work to do (several hours). It did not seem as if we could achieve any significant saving here. That is why we preferred colored discs with a slightly higher price.
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Slev Sleddeddan
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That's a fair argument for the pre-coloured discs.

Alas, it's unreasonably expensive to buy any wooden discs in the UK, so have to have them shipped from either the US or mainland Europe. Since I have the stuff to paint the discs in quantity due to other hobbies, the combined cost and shipping made the Caseywood cheaper in the UK, YMMV.

I can also see why someone would want to not have to paint all those discs...
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Chris D'Andrea
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jwhyne wrote:
lordunborn wrote:
I just dyed all my discs violet for now.


What is the general consensus for the best way to do this? Another fellow and I are going to tackle making 2 of these and have the discs on order. I would love to dye them instead of painting all of them.


I bought Rit Clothing Dye at my local grocery and made a batch in a huge pot it only works on the 3/4" discs as they are too small to warp. Larger discs tend to warp if not watched very very carefully. Let em soak until they get the desired color and tada they are done
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Robert Sweeney
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Lordunborn: Wow, is Ronald going to be mad at you when he sees your Geekbadge....
 
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Merchant of Venus » Forums » General
Re: Dathkadan Remake: A beauty to behold, but a beast to build (Or: How we did it... with pics and links)
Part III: Printing pretty pictures and sealing sticky stuff

Time to print. Over the last years my old color laser mostly printed stuff in black and white, so I expected the remaining color toner to be sufficient. Which it was. Otherwise we might have used a printing service to do the last pages instead of buying new toner. With the outrageous prices for color toner or ink cartridges nowadays it can pay to check the prices of a printing service.

Edit:
---
We have been using and education license of PhotoShop to print after we noticed that not every program printed with the same colors and sharpness. So our advice is to compare the printouts of the programs you will be using if you do not have a copy of PhotoShop.

As noted above, we scaled down all the counters when printing them by changing the dpi resolution in Photoshop. This can be done without recalculating the picture, so there is no loss of quality (Of course the printer's physical resolution will stay the same, so there the print will unavoidably lose a little quality through the smaller print area). The 0,75" (19mm) stickers got scaled down to 18mm, the 1" stickers got scaled down to 22mm and the 1,25" stickers got scaled down to 28mm. For an example: If the 19mm stickers were 300 dpi, we changed the resolution in PhotoShop to 317 dpi (300 x 19 / 18 = 316,66).

Of course we made sure that we had those new sizes as punches available for later. A small problem have been the expansions where different sizes of stickers were on the same page. There we copied and pasted the stickers onto sheets with other sticker of the same size with PhotoShop, so they got printed in the correct scale with the others.

For the ships and the other cards we made a kind of templates (simply black rectangles) in PhotoShop to give every print a black border of 5mm all around the graphic. The graphic then got added as a layer on top of this rectangle before printing. This way the cutting of the prints later could be made easily somewhere in that black border area without losing any graphic and without taking too much care for exact cuts. This has been saving a lot of time when cutting and mounting.
---

Next thought was that we did not want to use glue to fix more than 1000 stickers to discs or boards, so we bought a 200 sheet pack of adhesive A4 sticker paper for the laser printing. One game needed about 60 pages, the remaining 80 sheets will be used for other projects in the future.

After a test we found the surface of the prints rather sensible for scratching and rubbing, losing toner even when only pressing the paper onto the discs. The solution was to laminate all the prints. We just put 2 prints into a laminating pouch (back to back) and sent it through the laminator. So one laminating pouch covered two pages of print. We could lend an old high quality laminator to do this, so we did not have any air bubbles and due to it's higher temperature compared to the cheap models, the laminating foil was sticking very good to the toner of the laser prints.

Laminating the ships:



Two complete printouts ready laminated, ready to cut, punch and glue:



The colors and the contrast improved a lot from the laminating, but the surface got glossy. That was no problem for the counters, it seemed acceptable for the ships, but it did not look good on the test print for the map, since depending on the lighting situation, we had bad glares. And we would have needed to print the map in 6 pieces and put those together.

So we asked the local printing service for help with the map. They made us an offer to print the map in high quality on adhesive vinyl foil with matt cold lamination for protection on top for 35 Euros for both maps. Now 17,50 Euros for a single map print seemed steep, but still acceptable. This will end up as a very expensive PnP game, but it was too late to turn back.

The result from the printing service looked very good but not "great". The print had a very high resolution, no stripes, the colors were fine and the satin matt laminating foil did not glare. But the contrast wasn't as dark as we hoped for, showing a worse black level than our laminated laser prints. The matt finish of the cold lamination seemed to add some "greyness" on top of it, so it did not improve the contrast as our glossy laminating foil on the laser prints.

On this picture you can see both problems. The glare on the glossy high contrast laminated laser print and the low contrast and "greyness" on the matt cold laminated vinyl print (but it needs to be said that the greyness gets exaggerated a lot by the photograph here):




... to be continued ...
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Antonio Baracca
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I have to do some test laminating at high temperature. The problem is to avoid a detach of the plastic from the label.
 
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Superbarab wrote:
I have to do some test laminating at high temperature. The problem is to avoid a detach of the plastic from the label.

I don't actually know if it is only the temperature. This laminator is really heavily built and it seems to apply a lot of pressure while laminating. The other factor is the speed, which is adjustable with this laminator. With the temperature set at 150°C and laminating without protection pouches you have to turn up the speed to avoid destroying the plastic.
 
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eric hanuise
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for big surfaces, self-adhesive transparent vinyl seems a good option. (sold in rolls for covering books and stuff, cheap, sturdy, just beware of the bubbles when covering.)
 
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Ingo Griebsch
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Hi,
wolfzell wrote:

We just put 2 prints into a laminating pouch (back to back) and sent it through the laminator. So one laminating pouch covered two pages of print. We could lend an old high quality laminator to do this, so we did not have any air bubbles and due to it's higher temperature compared to the cheap models, the laminating foil was sticking very good to the toner of the laser prints.


I don't understand this step. You laminated two prints with counters back to back. And then? Cut the pouch lengthwise? And if, how?
 
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Ok: If you laminate a single sheet of paper, the melting glue of the laminating pouch sticks to the front and the back and that is that. But if you put 2 sheets of paper back to back into the laminating pouch, there will be nothing that is glueing those sheets together in the middle. All that is holding them together is the border, where the two layers of the laminating pouch glue directly to each other.

So if you cut away these borders after the lamination (and be sure to cut away only the borders since the 2 prints will most likely have different printed areas) you will end up with two sheets of paper that have the frontside covered with laminating foil. That foil is a very effective protection for the print. Scratch- and water-resistant (at least on the top). If you put self-adhesive label paper in there (of course without removing the back protection) as we did it here, you can make high-gloss stickers with this method.

An added benefit is a significant amplification of contrast because the rough surface of the paper which is normally dispersing light and adding "greyness" gets filled up and smoothed by the melting glue from the clear laminating foil.

This method also has some drawbacks, but I will talk about those later... I hope I could answer your question.

Btw., today I couldn't continue the thread, I was too sad about the things that happened here with the cease & desist order from GW.
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wolfzell wrote:
Btw., today I couldn't continue the thread, I was too sad about the things that happened here with the cease & desist order from GW.


??? Didn't see that one , Would you care to elaborate (or provide a link) ?
Thanks in advance.
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Joe Kundlak
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ehanuise wrote:
wolfzell wrote:
Btw., today I couldn't continue the thread, I was too sad about the things that happened here with the cease & desist order from GW.


??? Didn't see that one , Would you care to elaborate (or provide a link) ?
Thanks in advance.

See here.
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/467096
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Thanks.
Classic GW stuff cry

I was afraid there was some connection with the MoV remake, but no - apart from the loss of morale there is no relation between both items - so far so good
 
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Slev Sleddeddan
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wolfzell wrote:

Now there are some new expansions with Dathkadan's art made and uploaded by Slev, but since those were not available when we did our build, I won't include them here for now. I might do that later after having seen them, if you already know those expansion, feel free to add a post with links and explanations.


Well, now I have corrected versions of everything uploaded, here's the info.

Needed Files
Quote:

Play-mat for the Rastur. Double sided to allow both basic Rastur play and the solo game:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/49503

Files for "Second Ships, Agents and Bases", a Hamblen variant from The General. Most reviews say this is interesting, but adds a lot of play-time to the game, and generally isn't worth it:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/48572
Note that from this article in The General, there should also be two extra Forts per player. These can be made from extra copies of counter sheet 4, you need two forts per player.

Racial Ship Cards, to go with the racial ship variants. This Hamblen variant from The General is know for being complete trash, since the powers of these ships is in no-way balanced:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/49443

Mercenaries, another Hamblen variant from The General, this is tied in to the combat rules:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/48573

Venus Smuggler appeared in The General, and is designed for use with the Rastur rules,:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/49389

Non-random movement is a fan expansion from the internet, well regarded or ignored depending on what sources I look at. It replaces dice rolling with a pool of navigation chits:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/49536

Green Taters has been mooted here on the 'Geek by Richard Irving (rri1), I simply photoshopped updated art for it:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/49388

Aliens Amok (ten player) found here on the 'Geek, again, I simply re-shopped the art:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/52164/ten-player-variant-d...




Materials
Quote:

Venus Smuggles: twelve 3/4" discs*, fifty 1/2" discs (no design, just plain colour).
Mercenaries: twenty-four 1" discs*.
Non-random movement: one hundred and eighty 3/4" discs*, or double that if you want to play with the second ship rules at the same time.
Extra Forts: twelve 3/4" discs*
Green Taters: eighty-three 3/4" discs*
Aliens Amok: up to 212 1" discs*, depending on how many variants you're combining with it.
*or whatever size you're using instead of this standard size

The other items are all mats/boards/pawns, and you can use whatever methods you normally would for these
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paolo mercuriali
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your splendid job cannot be stopped now…
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Wolfgang Zelller
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Thanks to Slev for adding the data for the expansions he posted. And I am very much looking forward to the finish of your rules rewrite. For anybody thinking about building this game, you absolutely need to read the end of this thread if you haven't done it yet.

Alright, so after a longer break than expected (family and real life took most of my time away):

Part IV: Punching circles and glueing them to the discs

This topic has been brought up before and finally gave me reason to start this report here. So I will just quote from the post I made there and work it over.

What tools are best for punching more than 1000 circles?

First I read the threads around that topic here and found recommendations for tools like this:



After the first experiments with these punches it showed that they can punch circles from standard paper pretty well, but as soon as you are using adhesive paper they start to fail. They hardly cut the paper together with the protection paper and the glue starts to build up at the cutting edges, making them unusuable very fast. And worse, if you are using the laminating technique explained above, those tools fail completely. They don't have enough force and they are not sharp enough to cut one single circle. So we needed an alternative solution.

This is what we finally ended up with:



So with the experiences made, we now can only recommend using a hammer, a board and a punch (In german: Locheisen oder Lochflöte). Google for them.

Edit: Thanks to Yargo I learned that those tools are called "arch punch" or "hollow punch" in english. So you might want to search for that.

The single piece red (or blue) ones are rather good and sharp, which you absolutely need for the 19mm counters and they only cost about 8-12 Euro. For the other diameters we were using a punch set with one handle and exchangeable punch bits with many different diameters, that I already owned for other work (i.e. punching gaskets). I bought that one for about 30 Euros at Amazon (Here). There is also a 19mm bit included, but I wouldn't use these punches for punching about 1000 stickers. They are not as sharp and I doubt the handle will go all the way.

Edit: I found almost the same kit we used with 13 different diameters on eBay USA for 30$ plus 10$ shipping. The only difference was the color of the case and the handle (orange instead of blue). A 3/4" punch is included with that kit, but I still recommend using an extra single piece punch for that diameter.

The local building stores are selling the single piece punches too, but most times they do not have the diameters you need in stock so you might be better off ordering them online in the first place. We ordered ours here. Those punches were still sharp after all the MoV-counters and will easily punch another few thousand and they can be re-sharpened if necessary. If we had known that from the beginning, we would have saved a lot of money we spent for the other circle cutting devices.

I have been using a 20mm birch plywood board as underlay for the punching. Here is a photo of my "punching-setup". What you can't see is the ear protection I have been wearing since the punching on the board was very loud:



This is how the board looked after punching one complete copy with all the expansions (the other side of the board looks pretty much the same, so here you can only see half of the punches):



So here are the collected hints from this experience:

The first tip I would give you is:

While punching with the tools above use some ear protection!



I made some of the first punches without ear protection and was hearing whistles and bells for several hours...

The second tip is to cut the counters into stripes and then punch one stripe without removing the circles from the punch to save time. They will neatly stack up in the punching tool and you can remove the whole stack after you have punched the whole stripe. Like this:



(Yes I know that the first punch was way off-center... During all the punching of my copy, I never made such a bad punch. In the situation above I was still feeling rather dizzy from some post-surgery medication when I took that picture two days ago. We were punching some stickers from the copy of my friend, just to take these additional pics for this thread...)

Third tip: To keep things easy punch a stripe with the front sides, remove the circle stack, then punch the stripe with the corresponding back sides. Put those two stacks together on your working table where you want to glue the counters. Keep on punching to build up several double-heaps of counter-stickers and only then start glueing the stickers to the counters again. So you won't have to change your tools and the ear protection too often (again to save time). Here you can see two stacks (front and backsides) like this:



Fourth tip: Don't be shy: Hit short, fast and hard. The punch can take this on the birchwood without losing sharpness. If you need to hit a second time, the cut won't be as good as when you manage to punch with only one hit. So it is better to hit hard once than to hit several times more softly. After about 20-50 punches you will know pretty well how hard you need to hit.

Now let's start to put those sticker onto the wooden discs.

As mentioned in the last part, the technique we used to laminate the adhesive paper has some drawbacks:

You need a pretty good laminator to avoid air bubbles and to make the laminating foil stick firmly to the print.

The other "problem" is that the laminating foil puts up some kind of tension to the paper. With the normal use of laminating pouches this isn't a problem at all, since this tension builds up on both sides and so the laminated paper will stay flat. But if you cut the lamination open as we are doing it in this technique, the adhesive paper with the single laminating foil will coil up somehow like this:



As you can see in the picture with the punched stickers above, this coiling up isn't very strong with the small format of the stickers. But if you put the stickers onto the discs the way they are right now, the tension is still strong enough to lift the sticker edges off the disc again. It only lifts those edges for one or two tenths of a mm, but it is visible. I tried to make a picture of the effect, but it is very subtle. This is the best I could do:



We tried pressing the stickers and other methods, but the edges kept lifting up again after some time. The only thing that really fixed the problem was this: After you remove the backing paper from the stickers, "roll" the stickers between your fingers (without touching the adhesive side), bending them backwards like this:

Edit: My friend noted that it was faster to "roll" the stickers this way *before* removing the backing paper, since after the "rolling", the backing paper gets off the sticker almost by itself, while otherwise you have to remove it carefully without damaging the sticker which can be fiddly. Check out what works best for you.



As you can see, after the bending they coil up the other way than before:



This worked very well. I guess the tension this way presses the edges against the discs. The stickers we glued to the discs using this technique were perfectly flat and stayed this way. As an added bonus, this technique eases the positioning of the stickers for glueing:



So far about punching and glueing the stickers. Here are some more pictures I took while building my copy:

Work in progress on my desk:


After about 300 discs I got a bad blister from pressing and rubbing the stickers onto the discs:



Almost finished:



Next part will be about the boards...
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