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Subject: This is not a welcoming site/sight. rss

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J C Lawrence
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keethrax wrote:
Feel free to pretend the world runs on rainbows and unicorn farts. And that running a site like this just magically happens free for everyone.


The view isn't so unreasonable. A large fraction of the websites I use are run as non-profits. labours of love, or otherwise non-commercial/privately-funded enterprises. BGG has elected to not be one of them, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.
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kSwingrÜber
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reapersaurus wrote:
kswingruber wrote:
All this talk about a search thingy... what's this:
http://www.geekdo.com/advsearch/boardgame ?
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic.

To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure myself! I was trying to be funny, at some level. But if it's just a "fart joke", sarcasm, parody, irony, etc... well, I don't know.

 
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Ian McCarthy
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derk wrote:
One other comment on monetization. The worldwide board gaming industry has benefited from BoardGameGeek, however in many cases said industry (especially old school companies run by old school managers who simply have no idea what BGG does) seems dead set against helping us continue growing and increasing exposure to their products... This last year has been a major education in how much effort is expended in marginalizing our contribution to the 'hobby.' We're constantly put into a situation where we could easily make more cash by compromising our ideals, but we're idealists at heart. As Aldie says quite often, "This is the kind of business that I want to run."


I think this is a telling comment about BGG's identity as a promoter of a specific type of medium to heavyweight Eurogame.

I think the interface would never scare an 18XX player away. However, casual gamers who run in fear at the sight of a Martin Wallace game all set up will probably not plumb the depths that the BGG interface has so cleverly hidden.

It makes sense to me that BGG would not get mainstream, i.e. Hasbro and other large scale publishers, support because the type of clientele that BGG fosters just poo-poo's that shit, to put it bluntly.

Just one look at the top 100 games, about 1/3 (guessing, let someone else check, but I bet it's actually more) of which are currently out-of-print and/or very scarcely produced (2500 or less) to begin with. This is a niche website with a niche following. How many family games or kid games do you see? That's a huge part of the market that BGG will never support.

If you jack down the complexity of the interface, I could see the face of BGG radically changing, probably not in a way that would satisfy the owners or regular contributors of the site.

Can any regular on this site imagine a BGG top 100 populated by games that get 100's of thousands of copies printed and are available at every big box store pretty much around the world? I doubt it.

I guess that's where the geek part of Board Game Geek comes in and IMO there's nothing wrong with that.

I took a look at Shelfari and, yes, the interface is spectacular, but I could see very quickly that the ratings were full of chaff. Romance novels beating out classics, everything widely produced and fluffy at the top of the charts. It was sickening, frankly, to see the actual state of a mass media market, particularly one that I cherish even more than board games.

I survived the BGG interface, but I enjoy a challenge. And I think it's incredible that BGG has attracted such a large base of fairly like-minded intelligent individuals from around the world. I wish every hobby had such a vibrant community volunteering a wealth of information about such a small segment of the market.
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Nicolas Varela
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LordBobbio wrote:
And you know, the link you sent in email to this this thread, sent me to GeekDo... and MY FR*&%KIN cookie from Boardgamegeek.com doesn't satisfy the GeekDo domain... that drives me nuts.


Really... how difficult is it to solve this issue? It drives me nuts as well.
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Andreas Krüger
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When I came here, it was because of a recommendation. The first feature I used was the random image gallery on the front page (which unfortunately has ceased to exist). It was so great to see something cool and get more information about it. Later I used more forum boxes of the frontpage. When I found an interesting forum thread, I clicked on it and it was the community aspect that made me sign up. I never really used the hotness. I use the search to access game pages I have already visited, e. g. after reading about the game in the forums.

Hotness? Personally, I don't care, but it may be a good "random" choice of games to show new users. But it certainly does not have to be that long and could be more seperated from the Tanga ad.

It took me a long time to get used to geeklists. I just did not realize how much interesting content there is. Probably because the first geeklists I clicked on were things like "My game night with my friend John".

I do not think a bad user interface is a good means to keep the site more interesting and protected from the mainstream. And yes, this bookshelf site is easier to access. No matter if it wants you to sign in, or has crappy books in their top 10, it just looks better.

I liked the "google-like" interface with images, hotness and search. I would add a "community" or "forums" button which leads to something similar to the current frontpage. The frontpage is not that bad to organize the forums and geeklists, but it is a bad portal for new users who want to learn about games.
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A Derk appears from the mists...
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clearclaw wrote:
The view isn't so unreasonable. A large fraction of the websites I use are run as non-profits. labours of love, or otherwise non-commercial/privately-funded enterprises. BGG has elected to not be one of them, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.


JC, you're waaaAAAAAaaaay too smart to realize that non-profit doesn't mean an entity doesn't make profit. It just means that it hides it by paying the principals lotsa cash...
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Scott Alden
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Thanks for the comments everyone, I look forward to the process of revamping the interface so that it makes *everyone* happy.
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Ian McCarthy
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@ Andreas

I agree with pretty much all that you've said except labeling the interface as "bad." I think difficult or complicated would be a better descriptor.

If Through the Ages can be in the top ten games here, then I'm certain that most of the active users (present and future) on this site have no real issues with BGG's interface.

I just doubt that either the game or the website will ever truly hit the mainstream.
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CHAPEL
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KenToad wrote:


If Through the Ages can be in the top ten games here, then I'm certain that most of the active users (present and future) on this site have no real issues with BGG's interface.

I just doubt that either the game or the website will ever truly hit the mainstream.


*FINGERS CROSSED*
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I Am Sparcatus
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Aldie wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone, I look forward to the process of revamping the interface so that it makes *everyone* happy.




Thanks!
 
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E Butler
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Aldie wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone, I look forward to the process of revamping the interface so that it makes *everyone* happy.


If you make everyone happy people will stop posting... then people will stop visiting because nothing really changes...and the site will die.
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Kelley E.
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clearclaw wrote:
keethrax wrote:
Feel free to pretend the world runs on rainbows and unicorn farts. And that running a site like this just magically happens free for everyone.


The view isn't so unreasonable. A large fraction of the websites I use are run as non-profits. labours of love, or otherwise non-commercial/privately-funded enterprises. BGG has elected to not be one of them, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.


How many of those sites are the size of BGG in terms of database size, connections, and traffic? It takes a lot of time and money to just keep the lights on for a place like this, let alone make improvements. Monetize doesn't strictly mean pure profit. More money means an opportunity for improvements and the ability to keep up with the demands on resources.

As long as the management still has the best interests of the site in mind I think we'll be OK. If we start seeing changes that consistently result in zero benefit to the site then I think we'll have something to worry about.
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Kelley E.
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BoardGameGeek » Forums » BoardGameGeek Related » BGG General
Re: This is not a welcoming site/sight.
moonglum01 wrote:
Aldie wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone, I look forward to the process of revamping the interface so that it makes *everyone* happy.


If you make everyone happy people will stop posting... then people will stop visiting because nothing really changes...and the site will die.


The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work...they stopped posting, talking, eating. There's a million geeks here, and they all just let themselves die.

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Hugh G. Rection
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The placement of the two largest ads in the sample pics make the front page look really disjointed.
 
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Robert Wesley
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Aldie wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone, I look forward to the process of revamping the interface so that it makes *everyone* happy.
moonglum01 wrote:
If you make everyone happy people will stop posting... then people will stop visiting because nothing really changes...and the site will die.
xeromist wrote:
The people here stopped fighting. And then they stopped everything else. They stopped going to work...they stopped posting, talking, eating. There's a million geeks here, and they all just let themselves die.
"Serenity" NOW! "complacency" to follow... robot
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Dave Lartigue
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I also think that the idea of increasing revenue by not scaring potential users away with an electric barbed-wire fence should be considered.
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Aldie wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone, I look forward to the process of revamping the interface so that it makes *everyone* happy.


laugh
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King of the Dead
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MORE TITS!
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Hugh G. Rection
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Nazhuret wrote:
MORE TITS!


Best suggestion all day!
 
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A Derk appears from the mists...
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Legomancer wrote:
I also think that the idea of increasing revenue by not scaring potential users away with an electric barbed-wire fence should be considered.


I couldn't agree with this statement more. Our statistics in comparison to 'sites of similar size' are typically off the charts. Google defines thus:

Quote:
Based on the number of visits each site receives, sites of similar sizes are grouped together under three classifications: small, medium, and large. This way, you can compare yourself to other similarly sized sites. You are not able to view benchmarking data for sites in other size classifications.


Our Visits are 1000% better. Our Page Views are 2300% better. Our Pages per Visit is 120% better. Our Average Time on Site is 250% better. And believe it or not, our Bounce rate is 24% lower.

Now all that means we're doing something right. However, there's no reason we couldn't do better... And I'll be the first to admit that we need a major UI overhaul. Aldie agrees 100%. But I've been in software development for far too long to be cavalier about such matters. UI overhauls is one of the most expensive and risky propositions that a software group can do. As our current staff of developers contains exactly two people, you can see why we're a bit leary of such a project.

And just to be completely forthright, I've been working for BGG for a year and a half now, and my take home has been virtually nothing. The last time I earned this much, I think I was working retail at a college bookstore about 20 years ago. A far, far cry from my days on Wall Street...
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CHAPEL
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derk wrote:


And just to be completely forthright, I've been working for BGG for a year and a half now, and my take home has been virtually nothing. The last time I earned this much, I think I was working retail at a college bookstore about 20 years ago. A far, far cry from my days on Wall Street...


Ever think about opening a game store....teehee..








//Please don't ban me.
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Scott Muldoon (silentdibs)
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Everybody here is so worried about the "mainstreaming" of BGG... if VGG doesn't fall flat on its face, the sh!tstorm it serves up is going to make Chit Chat look like an old lady tea party for two.

I say bring it on!
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James Bentley
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derk wrote:
clearclaw wrote:
The view isn't so unreasonable. A large fraction of the websites I use are run as non-profits. labours of love, or otherwise non-commercial/privately-funded enterprises. BGG has elected to not be one of them, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be.


JC, you're waaaAAAAAaaaay too smart to realize that non-profit doesn't mean an entity doesn't make profit. It just means that it hides it by paying the principals lotsa cash...


Actually, I do volunteer graphic-design work for a charity that not only does not make a profit, but pays out money each month at a cost to itself...and has done this for quite some time. These charities may be few and far between, but a few do exist.

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celiborn wrote:
But there is no generic start page for non-users (like the general Google search page).


I'm actually kinda curious who used the BGG start page when they first found BGG. Myself, I used, ironically enough, Google to find info about a game. I clicked the link, found the thread, and started reading.

Unfortunately, I see it's a convention that the home page of most sites are confusing for new viewers. Many of them have "News" front and center, implying that the site's audience are experienced users, rather than

For example, here's another popular gaming site. Aside from "it's about D&D", it's also pretty overwhelming: http://www.enworld.org/

I think the BGG layout's not as bad as your average info-lade site. It sections off Forums, Reviews, and Session reports. You can see games of interest in bold letters. You can see the subtopics (eg. Rules) easily. The word, "geeklist" is a good choice. It implies "fun stuff hardcore boardgamers would enjoy".

And keep the cartoon! laugh
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The Pariah
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Aldie wrote:
Thanks for the comments everyone, I look forward to the process of revamping the interface so that it makes *everyone* happy.



It will never happen (and, I'm not saying that to be snarky, I just mean - that's a near-impossibility, and your hopes shouldn't be that high - making "a large majority" happy would be a monumental achievement).



A lot depends on whom you're designing the site for - if it's for existing hardcore gamers (like us), then the site functions now...we've all gone through growing pains together. If you're designing for *new* visitors, then the interface is damned scary.

Whatever the end result, I'd like to think that customization will *always* be available for users -- admittedly, new users, on average, won't feel comfortable enough setting those parameters; but I'd hate to think I'd have to have the same default layout as someone new to the site.
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