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Subject: This is not a welcoming site/sight. rss

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Daniel Eig
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For comparisons sake, this is the BGG UI v2.0 - dating from 6 years ago (copy it into your address bar - I can't figure out how to make the link work when I'm sleepy)

http://web.archive.org/web/20040911075305/http://www.boardgamegeek.com/

Say what you will about it, I found it much more inviting, and a lot less cluttered.

I miss the old, straight-forward news feed from that era. I miss the more in your face top 10 lists. And look - it says plainly that all these lists are about "games". Where can I figure that out on the current default homepage?

Looking at the default website, its hard to say what these lists are all about - few mention games..

I understand cool new features have been added in, and no one likes to hide stuff you spent time working on. But its just overwhelming. A lot of it should just be removed, or minimized for new users. Focus on what new users want to see - top recommended games, how to find a game, site information, etc.
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Terry Hale
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Actually interested you will keep looking and be amazed at what you never knew!
 
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Bill August
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As a relatively new member, I think there is something to the point that the site is not all that user friendly. I mentioned this to my friend who has been on much longer.

However, I think that might be the point. I have spent hours looking over the different areas of the site, in part, to try and figure out how it works. So whether by intention or not on the part of the site creators, I have been here a ton.

Also, and I may be off here I realize, I like to think that we are involved in this hobby because to a certain extent we like to be challenged.

In conclusion, I love this site. I check it nearly every day. I feel like that "Bee Girl" in the Blind Melon video after she finds the field of "Bee People".

Thanks.
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Jonathan Warren
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One of the small niggles that has always bugged me is the 'Right now on eBay' section. It is right at the top, underneath the 'BGG News' which is a silly place for it to be. This would be better repositioned (using the current UI) to a less prominent place.

Keeping the current layout, if I wanted to see what's for sale at that place, surely it would be better to have the 'BGG Marketplace' in place of the eBay box? This might help create revenue. Of course if the eBay box generates revenue for the site, this might be a mute point.

If we have to keep the eBay section can I have a way to point it to ebay.co.uk!!! I don't really care to see what is for sale in the US.
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Gene Ksenzakovic
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MWChapel wrote:
jdludlow wrote:


Informationless "google.com" or content full "igoogle.com"?....cause igoogle looks like bgg in many ways.


Right where I was going.
 
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Dave Lartigue
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Another thing to think about: with the images module set to "Hot" for unlogged-in users, they may not be aware that these games are to be played and not just given to your girlfriend to hold.
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Tim Stellmach
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JoffW wrote:
XanderF wrote:



This is quite a neat design. The new user does not confront information overload like the current interface.

Huh. Apparently, there are people who like those useless subdomain icons, and who see BGG as mainly a photo gallery.

You learn something new every day.
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Tim Stellmach
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Halfinger wrote:
Some designers still haven't grasped why Google were so successful and that was no bloat. The BBG site would be a good example of how not to design a UI.

So, the primary reason for Google's success what their minimalist UI design, and not that they offer a superior search engine.

We have cracked the secret of defeating them! Expect my gajillion-dollar IPO shortly.
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Andreas Krüger
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timstellmach wrote:

Huh. Apparently, there are people who like those useless subdomain icons, and who see BGG as mainly a photo gallery.

You learn something new every day.


I don't think this was the point - to make BGG a photo gallery. But images attract people who look casually. And this is the audience that will come to a frontpage for non-logged in users. Yes, a forum link should be added, and yes, the subdomain buttons will probably not do anything useful there. But the images are the best point of interest for new people.
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Andreas Krüger
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timstellmach wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
Some designers still haven't grasped why Google were so successful and that was no bloat. The BBG site would be a good example of how not to design a UI.

So, the primary reason for Google's success what their minimalist UI design, and not that they offer a superior search engine.

We have cracked the secret of defeating them! Expect my gajillion-dollar IPO shortly.


Everybody thought they could never make money. No ads on the frontpage! Nothing to make users stay! How was this supposed to generate income? But the page was loading fast and it did what users expected. They had the courage to do the right thing, different from everything else in the same business. They had to get rid of some ballast, and BGG might have to do the same (for the non-logged in frontpage, not for everybody).
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Jonathan Warren
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timstellmach wrote:
Huh. Apparently, there are people who like those useless subdomain icons, and who see BGG as mainly a photo gallery.

You learn something new every day.


No, that wasn't the point. I simply suggested that the proposed layout was a neat design, not that I preferred it! I like the UI almost as it is (although see my eBay comment above), but the OP is about attracting new users. The front page is quite overwhelming for a first time user and can be very confusing!
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derk wrote:
Every single change we make is met with howls of derision, and [...] no one's willing to help bring it to fruition.

Didn't a bunch of people volunteer for UI testing? Put UI changes through a beta program -- as is done with many other features. Although it slows the development schedule, it will tend to catch the kind of "gotchas" that produce the most hostile complaints.


derk wrote:
UI overhauls is one of the most expensive and risky propositions that a software group can do.

"Overhaul" is just another word for expensive, but BGG is a living example of the effectiveness of incremental improvement. Stick with that approach.

UI refactoring isn't particularly risky nor expensive* compared to other areas of software development except that change is the norm. It's also the most visible, so you have to endure a multitude of annoying opinions. I sympathize, and you've probably earned the right to vent, but consider the complaints is this thread as a kind of sign of your success.
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Chris R.
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I, for one, REALLY like the setup.

However, I just visited a very tiny local website recently for the first time that had a rectangular tab that read "First Time Visiter -- Info Here". Perhaps replacing the wording on the orange tab "All Games" with the words "First Time Visiter -- Info Here" and have this tab be directed to a wiki page which could be stocked with informative information, forum info, and geeklists about this topic.
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Chris Johnson
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cymric wrote:
There was also an announcement that due to layoffs, many projects were put on hold. We'll have to see how the situation develops.


Do you remember where/when this was said? I didn't see it, and went looking, but couldn't turn anything up...

Thanks.

 
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Jack Smith
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timstellmach wrote:
Halfinger wrote:
Some designers still haven't grasped why Google were so successful and that was no bloat. The BBG site would be a good example of how not to design a UI.

So, the primary reason for Google's success what their minimalist UI design, and not that they offer a superior search engine.

We have cracked the secret of defeating them! Expect my gajillion-dollar IPO shortly.


Hey, make sure I get a cut of that!

The point I was making is that at the time people seriously thought pop ups and in your face bloat was the way to go. This was marketing at it's worst, just pure spam. They hadn't grasped the concept of information overload as they saw it as 'more is better' and ignored what the user actually wants.

BGG's page looks like spam to me and its certainly bloated. I avoid those sorts of sites like the plague as you never quite get what you want without a zillion clicks and an annoying interface. I forgot how I got to the Wargame forums but I've no interest in trying to do it again, I have better things to do. so that's one part of the site I won't be reading which is my main interest.

If I were not a long time viewer here and the fact it's otherwise an excellent resource I would not be here at all. For my online game forums needs I can pick and choose and I do then vote with my feet.

I came back from a break a few weeks back and I was not impressed. It was like a collegue student had been given the free reign to do whatever he wanted with the site and he was trying to impress. There is no self control on the site.

Still, some like it and mine is only one opinion.
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Nick King
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Large scale changes can definitely be a risk, but in BGG's case, that risk is small.

You have two main things to fear:

Users leaving the site - where would they go? Risk is minimal.

Someone creating a new site and getting people to leave. If it hasn't happened by now, it isn't happening.

Your google stats are more a measure of how much of a stranglehold you have on your userbase by simply being first, and being a dense collection of information. There are tons of great things here at BGG, and people don't want to go let that stuff go.

As far as being risk averse though, there is no point. The niche you serve carries the traits that as a business you really want your customers to have - loyal, ocd, picky, unmotivated, opinionated.

As a generality, of course not true for everyone that games, we tend to be a bunch of folks that like to complain about things we don't like but never really do anything to push out our own thing. The few that do tend to be very successful. Add change averse to the list and you have a loud and unmoving base populace.

Change things to bring in more mainstream, and you now add a little more volatile user base, but have an even larger lock on your niche as well, further increasing your influence.
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Halfinger wrote:
Some designers still haven't grasped why Google were so successful and that was no bloat. The BBG site would be a good example of how not to design a UI.

These days people do not put up with information overload, they simply move on, as my friend did when I pointed him to this site.


I've experienced that as well so I try now to send someone a link to a specific game instead. Then its not as off-putting, the information available is the information they want, and they get a good look at what the site has to offer them right away without having to search for it. This tends to be better received.
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I legally own hundreds of polyhedral assault dice!
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BoardGameGeek » Forums » BoardGameGeek Related » BGG General
Re: This is not a welcoming site/sight.
Legomancer wrote:
I'm not a designer. Nor am I an aerospace engineer, but if the plane I was about to get on didn't have wings, I'd still feel qualified to say something.


I'd definitely feel qualified to say, "I'm boarding the wrong plane!"

Could the BGG interface be better. I agree that it could be.

Is it all that bad? Maybe, but I don't think so.

I think most web interfaces go bad when a design is settled on, launched, and then it gets "crunked up" with additional buttons and features that were not anticipated or allowed for in the first place. (Such as the big subdomain buttons.)

I agree that maybe setting up a "front page for muggles" for new users and search directs might be in order. Something that is clean, simple, explains the site, and is devoid of just about everything else except a search bar, a log-in panel with a toggle to take you to your profile or to the "wizard's frontpage"—what we normally encounter when surfing back to BGG.

Then, once you've registered and logged into BGG for the first time, you can set you choice of which page you wish to appear when you return to the site: the muggle's page, the wizard's page, or your profile page.

...Yeah, I know. My idea sucks...
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Brandon M
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I'm kind of glad that boardgamegeek.com is not designed for the lowest common denominator Internet idiot.

It's clearly designed by geeks, but it's also used by geeks. I'm glad I don't have to browse 9 different pages to get all of the information that's on the front page.
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Gabe Alvaro
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mugs wrote:
It's clearly designed by geeks, but it's also used by geeks. I'm glad I don't have to browse 9 different pages to get all of the information that's on the front page.


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Geek: YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE GEEK!
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A Derk appears from the mists...
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One quick note. Sometimes system upgrades come about because they're requested and built, sometimes system upgrades come about because it's an easy fish to fry when you're coding along... This functionality falls into the latter. Usability remains our chief concern.

sauron
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Walt
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derk wrote:
One quick note. Sometimes system upgrades come about because they're requested and built, sometimes system upgrades come about because it's an easy fish to fry when you're coding along... This functionality falls into the latter. Usability remains our chief concern.

sauron

Yeah, like cutting Recently Viewed back to a month, no matter what's visible or usable. shake
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
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I do see that the images module now defaults to "Game" -- was that a result of the concerns raised in this thread?
 
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Walt
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Morganza wrote:
I do see that the images module now defaults to "Game" -- was that a result of the concerns raised in this thread?

Another thread I think. I welcome the change, but some do not. Aldie has said he will make it settable, presumably from the front page layout area in our profiles.
 
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David Reynolds
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Wow; the new front page is hideous and unusable.

::edit:: And SLOW.
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