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Subject: dont use diplomat in two player - any other suggestions? rss

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Vince Lupo
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ALEXANDRIA
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I played my first 2 player game on the board version of the game (I also have the ipad version).

I taught the game to someone new and he got to go first. He picked Diplomat Skeletons and never had to pick another the entire game because he had no incentive.

Diplomat lets you not get attacked by the other player as long as you don't attack them.

Skeletons keep increasing the size of their army.


He was unstoppable. The one or two turns he did attack me, I should have hit him harder but I didn't have the right race to fight back and I had to go into decline and hope for something better.



I have heard it mentioned on these forums that people dont use Diplomat in two player because of this (they leave diplomat in the box).


Are there any other things people do differently in 2 player Small World?
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BT Carpenter
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I think I identified this combination first here: http://boardgamegeek.com/article/3427752

Concensus seems to be that yes, Diplomatic should be axed from a 2p game.
 
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Chris Wood
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Wheaton
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Don't you have to attack in order to increase the size of your skeletons? If you take out the lost tribes he has no way of increasing size.
 
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Vince Lupo
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ALEXANDRIA
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Myoman wrote:
Don't you have to attack in order to increase the size of your skeletons? If you take out the lost tribes he has no way of increasing size.



Right. But he took down most of the tribe, and I kept make some small mistakes, like choosing wealthy instead of something with more units to combat him better when he gave me the opening.

The few times he attacked me, I wasn't able to do enough damage.

Also, every time I went into decline he was able to kill those guys without consequences because diplomat only talks about active races.

So, he essentially conquered 2 thirds of the map and held it most of the game.
 
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Jesper Brøchner
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We never use Diplomat when we are playing a two player game.
 
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Vince Lupo
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ALEXANDRIA
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Is diplomat the only problem race/power?
 
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Tiwaz Tyrsfist
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There are some powers/races that people will argue are either under or over powered, but the only power that is agreed as universally game breaking is Diplomatic, and only in 2 player games.


And there are, of coarse, a few ugly power combos out there.
Flying Sorcerer's come to mind, as do spirit ghouls or spirit white ladies, but they are situational at best, and not GAME BREAKING, nor insurmountable.

One variant I will suggest is, Once you have several of the Expansions, you may want to play with only SOME of your races and powers each game, instead of all of them. This tends to keep things running more smoothly IMO. I tend to mix mine up and then just take 14 races and 20 powers (the same number as the base game) and put the rest in the box.
 
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ronaldinho @boardspace.net
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I would remove the Kobolds from 2er. They are too good.

I had a variant race similar to Kobolds (Tauren/Cowmen): every single token acts as two. The badge number is 3.

It's more balanced because it's more restrictive regarding the splitting up of racial tokens, and also the stronger power badges cost you 2 effective tokens instead of just 1.
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Noble Knave
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drunkenKOALA wrote:
I would remove the Kobolds from 2er. They are too good.

I had a variant race similar to Kobolds (Tauren/Cowmen): every single token acts as two. The badge number is 3.

It's more balanced because it's more restrictive regarding the splitting up of racial tokens, and also the stronger power badges cost you 2 effective tokens instead of just 1.


I'd second that on the Kobolds. They're pretty balanced in a multiplayer game (like Diplomat), but in a 2 player they can just dominate and it takes a lot to whittle them down to obsolescence.

I like the idea of Tauren, and you could even use the Kobold badge and tokens for it. So Hordes of Tauren would effectively have an attack power of 20? Yikes.
 
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Bryan Stout
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drunkenKOALA wrote:
I would remove the Kobolds from 2er. They are too good.

I had a variant race similar to Kobolds (Tauren/Cowmen): every single token acts as two. The badge number is 3.

It's more balanced because it's more restrictive regarding the splitting up of racial tokens, and also the stronger power badges cost you 2 effective tokens instead of just 1.

That's exactly like one of my own creations, except for the name!
 
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Danny Mack
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Small World » Forums » Variants
Re: dont use diplomat in two player - any other suggestions?
First of all, I LOVE the idea of Tauren in Smallworld! (Warcraft 3 anyone?)

To the OP:
Next time, don't make small mistakes. That's the way to beat any combo. (Helpful, right?!)

As far as other changes in play in the board version of the game, the answer is: NO. The iPad doesn't include Diplomat but everything else is up for grabs. The best way to beat Kobolds is to go in decline and come back killing off any in-decline buddies they may have. Then you have 2 races and he has 1. You will outscore him, even if you never touch his Kobolds. He will max out at 8 regions (unless he has Hordes of-) and will have to ditch the Kobolds just to keep up with you.
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The Doctor

Indiana
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You cannot attack lost tribes to increase the skeleton army, they have the pillar in the corner that indicates they qualify as "in decline"
 
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Mike B
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18millera wrote:
You cannot attack lost tribes to increase the skeleton army, they have the pillar in the corner that indicates they qualify as "in decline"


I don't have the rules in front of me, but I am pretty sure that skeletons don't need to attack active races to get the benefit, so any in decline tokens count for raising the skeleton army.
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Alejandro Magno
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diplo is broken in 2 player game, sadly the online version doesn't give you the option to remove diplo.
 
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Jason
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Brooklyn Center
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18millera wrote:
You cannot attack lost tribes to increase the skeleton army, they have the pillar in the corner that indicates they qualify as "in decline"


Sorry, but that's completely wrong. Skeletons, Pillaging and Orcs all have powers based on OCCUPIED regions. That's what that symbol on all three means - occupied. Note that it's the same basic symbol as the one on the board showing you where to put the lost tribes at the beginning of their turn.

If that wasn't enough, just read the rulebook. The example turn it shows is actually skeletons conquering a lost tribe region, and elf region and a empty region and then getting back a new skeleton due to their racial ability.

http://cdn0.daysofwonder.com/smallworld/en/img/sw_rules_2_en...

And yes, Diplomatic has no place in 2p games and is maddening on the app where you can't remove it. I've posted to DoW about it and everyone agreed. Here's hoping when they come out with the Steam/Android versions they'll address it.
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Proto Persona
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jepmn wrote:
And yes, Diplomatic has no place in 2p games and is maddening on the app where you can't remove it. I've posted to DoW about it and everyone agreed. Here's hoping when they come out with the Steam/Android versions they'll address it.

They already did, and maddeningly it's still in there on Steam/Android. Most people are advocating for a toggle for it since some people find diplomacy to be a challenge in 2 player.
 
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Jason
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Proto Persona wrote:
They already did, and maddeningly it's still in there on Steam/Android. Most people are advocating for a toggle for it since some people find diplomacy to be a challenge in 2 player.


What! How did I miss them coming out???

Disappointing to hear that about diplomat.
 
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