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Lightning: D-Day» Forums » General

Subject: Weak allies, what am I missing? rss

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Matt Carlson
United States
West Lafayette
Indiana
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OK, I want to like this game but something is causing the allies to lose every game... badly.

I am the better player in a 2 player match, the first game we played I was able to eliminate ALL of the opposing player's forces before the last turn.

We switched sides and as the allies I lost the game and (due to the axis having 2 "move forces around" cards - I cancelled the first) I ended the game with some forces left but in "control" of no beaches (ie. axis had people at every beach.)

What could I be missing? Like I said, I'm the much better player so I should have been able to at least get maybe ONE beach or something I would think.

Elsewhere it looks like people are saying you have to play an action card to be able to attack? I don't get that out of the rules or the FAQ at all...

The German first strike is very powerful, usually getting at least one unactivated allies unit the first turn, if not more. (several attack for free units, and two "get an extra action for free here" cards in the deck.) This makes it likely for the Axis to blow open one beach which will often have multiple attacks available there (through cards or forces) multiple flanking attacks just eats through the allied lines and the game is over....

What am I missing here? I'd like to enjoy the game, but I don't see the allies putting up enough of a fight...
 
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Steve Oliver
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Re:Weak allies, what am I missing?
happycamper (#461332),
I've seen the Axis win more often, but the Allies can win. When the Allies win, it's very very close, that's been my experience. The rules don't make it clear (or don't say at all -- the rules are horrible) but each force card can either activate or attack, so on the first turn, they get a free activation but then you need an action card to attack with them.

I thought I read in the FAQ or somewhere that yes indeed, the Axis can get off to a good start in the first turn by taking out one or two Allied forces, before the Allies can even start. That is part of the game, and certainly gives the feel of the real invasion with boats and men taking hits before they can hit the beaches.
 
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Barry Ingram
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Re:Weak allies, what am I missing?
steveoliverc wrote:
happycamper (#461332),
The rules don't make it clear (or don't say at all -- the rules are horrible) but each force card can either activate or attack, so on the first turn, they get a free activation but then you need an action card to attack with them.

Per the Rules...
Player Turn
3) The acting player can perform one action at each beach
(some cards allow additional actions on each beach).

So the beach gets one action (either Activate or Attack), not each force card (unless of course, it is a special force card that allows a free action in which case that beach would be allowed two actions i.e. the same force can be activated and attack in the same turn).

You do not need an action card necessarily to attack but you may need one to support the attack if the defending force strength matches your attacking strength.
See the example in the rule section How to Attack.
If, in the example given, the German player chooses not to support the 352nd force then it would be eliminated straight off with no action cards involved at all.

Hope this helps.
 
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Matt Carlson
United States
West Lafayette
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Re:Weak allies, what am I missing?
TommieSL (#461443),

This is exactly how I have been playing the game. One action per area (activate or attack), and you don't need an "action" card to attack if you don't want to use one.

The "free action" troops, along with the two "free action at a beach" cards that the germans have both add up to some hard times in early turns if they come up quickly. This gets worse with the Axis "prevent an allied activation" card (is it sea mines?).

All in all, there is ample opportunity for the Axis to focus on one beach and blow a nice hole in it. It then becomes possible to make one (or more!) attacks per round to an empty beach really clearing out the nearby ones...

I'll keep playing but it looks like I'm not doing anything wrong. Perhaps I'll take out all the cards to try and find a good strategy for the allies. Maybe all the axis hands have just been powerful draws for some reason...
 
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Barry Ingram
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Re:Weak allies, what am I missing?
happycamper wrote:
TommieSL (#461443), "...Perhaps I'll take out all the cards to try and find a good strategy for the allies."


Make sure you post your findings here.
I for one, will be reading with interest.
 
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Justin
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Creve Coeur
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i still enjoy the game, but it does seem that the germans have a decisive advantage.

i wonder if shifting the victory conditions one notch toward the allies would do it. it seems like the germans are able to knock out central beaches in every game i play, which leads to a domino effect.
 
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Michael Ward
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
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Put me in the "this game is grossly inbalanced towards the Germans" camp.

I've played it four times solitaire and twice face-to-face and the best the Allies have done is control 3 beaches. True, that's a small sample of games to draw conclusions from, but... its all I've got so far. At first I kept thinking there must be some great Allied strategy that I'm not seeing. Well, now I've played it against an astute wargamer and he did no better. Nor could either of us afterwards think of any easy fix. Unbalanced games are nothing new to wargames. But I was under the impression this game was supposed to be roughly balanced. I own Lightning: Midway and find it very balanced. The Allies shouldn't have to draw only their best cards and the Germans their worst for the Allies to have a chance.

Has the designer ever weighed in on this topic? The guy I played against today couldn't believe they wouldn't have noticed this tendency during play-testing.

I don't know what the answer to this problem is. But it needs one. If I was the only one who couldn't win as the Allies I'd assume the fault was with me. But as I'm not...
 
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Justin
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perhaps reducing some of the german "+x when played on foo beach" modifiers?

i don't mind not being able to really attack in the first round because of the allied -1, but round 3 rips me to shreds. "all attacks get +1" sounds equal, but it only seems to help the germans because they attack first. you blow all your cards on defense, and the attacker isn't harmed when you're successful.
 
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Andrew Choong
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Chatham
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Lightning: D-Day » Forums » General
Re: Weak allies, what am I missing?
Hi All,

I realise it's been some time since the last posts. I have been trialling a method which is returning fairer results. Basically, any Allied unit that is successfully attacked during a turn is not removed immediately but rotated sideways to show that it is 'hit'. On the Allied round, these cards can perform an action as normal, including attacking. Any German cards which are successfully attacked are similarly rotated. Once the last Allied beach has been resolved, all rotated cards are removed as casualties. Axis and Allies players may find this combat procedure familiar, and I find it does allow the Allied units to at least get a kick in even while they are suffering. It also makes things a bit more tense for the German player who I personally find can get a bit complacent about the strength of his 'first-strike' advantage.

Anyways, if anyone sees this try it out and let me know what you think.

Regards,

A
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