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Subject: Oh the tricky and often debated Captain Phase rss

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Patrick Nickell
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Okay so I tought myself Puerto Rico today and got a really good grasp on it from reading the rule book and then watched a great video by Scott to drive things home and help me teach the game. I pretty much gave everything down and only two things are tripping me up and they are both in delaing with the Captain Phase.

Question #1

Scenario: 4 ship (empty) 5 ship of Indigo (1 empty) 6 ship of corn (No empty). I have 3 Coffee and 1 Indigo.

I know of course when it is my turn that I must place the indigo. Assuming that the 4 ship remains empty and it is my turn again must I place my 3 Coffee on it? I am pretty sure I do I just want to clarify.

Question #2 (And this is the one that really has me scratching my balding head)

One of the rules states that when a player has multiple goods and multiple opportunities he must ship the good that he can ship the most of but the very next rule on the page states that the player may choose when he has multiple goods with multiple opportunities and does not have to choose the one he can ship the most of.

This has me thoroughly confused. I have the 2002 Rio Grande Games Edition and it is the last two rules under the "Player must" section. It's not actually called that.

The actual rules read the following verbatim. Can someone please clarify this.

Quote:
If a player has a kind of goods that can be loaded on several empty ships, he must choose the ship where he can load the most goods, leaving none behind, if possible.

- If a player has several kinds of goods that he can load, he may choose
freely, which goods to load. He need not choose the goods that would allow him to load the most barrels.


I think I might have figured it out during the time it took me to write this but I would still appreciate double checking my work and making sure I am right. If done wrong this could really screw up the game.
 
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Matt Davis
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unlpat wrote:


Question #1

Scenario: 4 ship (empty) 5 ship of Indigo (1 empty) 6 ship of corn (No empty). I have 3 Coffee and 1 Indigo.

I know of course when it is my turn that I must place the indigo. Assuming that the 4 ship remains empty and it is my turn again must I place my 3 Coffee on it? I am pretty sure I do I just want to clarify.


Yes, that's right. You must always load something on your turn in the Captain phase if you can.

Quote:

Question #2 (And this is the one that really has me scratching my balding head)



The actual rules read the following verbatim. Can someone please clarify this.

Quote:
If a player has a kind of goods that can be loaded on several empty ships, he must choose the ship where he can load the most goods, leaving none behind, if possible.

- If a player has several kinds of goods that he can load, he may choose
freely, which goods to load. He need not choose the goods that would allow him to load the most barrels.




Here, you actually left out an important earlier sentence.

Quote:
When a player loads goods of a kind, he must load as many of that kind as he can. A player cannot hold back goods when there is space on a ship carrying the kind of goods he has. If a player has a kind of goods that can be loaded on several empty ships, he must choose the ship where he can load the most goods, leaving none behind, if possible.


This could be worded better, but it means that once you've chosen which goods you're going to load, you must load as many of that good as you can. But when choosing which type of good to load, you can choose whatever you want as long as you choose to load something.

The example in the rules is dead on. Say I have 2 corn and 6 sugar, and the 5 and 7 boats are empty and available. I can choose to load my 2 corn on either of those boats, or I can choose to put my 6 sugar on the size 7 boat. I can't choose to load sugar and then only load 5 of them on the 5 boat. Once I say "I'm loading sugar", then I have to load as many as possible. But I don't have to pick sugar just because I can load more of them.
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Patrick Nickell
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Thank you for clarifying.

*tipped
 
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Dave Eisen
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unlpat wrote:
Okay so I tought myself Puerto Rico today and got a really good grasp on it from reading the rule book and then watched a great video by Scott to drive things home and help me teach the game. I pretty much gave everything down and only two things are tripping me up and they are both in delaing with the Captain Phase.

Question #1

Scenario: 4 ship (empty) 5 ship of Indigo (1 empty) 6 ship of corn (No empty). I have 3 Coffee and 1 Indigo.

I know of course when it is my turn that I must place the indigo.


As stated, this is incorrect. You could place the coffee if you prefer.
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Patrick Nickell
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Yeah goof on my part Dave. I meant to write that I would place the indigo on the ship as my next turn since the coffee is way more valuable. Thanks for pointing that out though.
 
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Fraser
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unlpat wrote:

Question #1

Scenario: 4 ship (empty) 5 ship of Indigo (1 empty) 6 ship of corn (No empty). I have 3 Coffee and 1 Indigo.

I know of course when it is my turn that I must place the indigo. Assuming that the 4 ship remains empty and it is my turn again must I place my 3 Coffee on it? I am pretty sure I do I just want to clarify.


Actually on your turn you must place goods in a ship (if possible). You do not have to ship your Indigo first. You may choose to ship either the Indigo or the Coffee first. They may well be reasons why you want to ship the coffee first (or not), these reasons would usually involve what the other players would be able to ship after your choice and quite possibly what you would be able to ship when your turn comes around again.
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Tibs
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Another rule that gets overlooked:

If it's your turn to ship a cluster of goods, and multiple ships are empty, and one ship would allow you to place more goods than the other, you must choose the larger one.

If you want to ship 5 corn and the 6-, 5-, and 4-space boats are all open, then you must choose the 6- or 5-space ship.
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Babis Tsimoris
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kungfro wrote:
Another rule that gets overlooked:

If it's your turn to ship a cluster of goods, and multiple ships are empty, and one ship would allow you to place more goods than the other, you must choose the larger one.

If you want to ship 5 corn and the 6-, 5-, and 4-space boats are all open, then you must choose the 6- or 5-space ship.


I don't think that this is right.there is no must! you can choose whatever ship you want for strategy reasons
 
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Patrick Nickell
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And the pot gets stirred again. LOL
 
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Werner Bär
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Siromist wrote:
kungfro wrote:
If you want to ship 5 corn and the 6-, 5-, and 4-space boats are all open, then you must choose the 6- or 5-space ship.
I don't think that this is right.there is no must! you can choose whatever ship you want for strategy reasons

Wrong.
And the rules were quoted earlier in this very thread:
Quote:
If a player has a kind of goods that can be loaded on several empty ships, he must choose the ship where he can load the most goods, leaving none behind, if possible.

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Tibs
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Oops, I guess it was already alluded to. Well I guess it's good I brought it up explicitly then anyway, because as everyone can see, it is often overlooked indeed.
 
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Beer be with you.
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Settlers of Catan does not improve with your house rules. The best option if you don't like the rules as written is to just select another game.
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I think in general most people have trouble with the fact that if they have multiple types of goods that they can ship, they are free to choose any one type of those goods. At this point, they DO NOT have to choose the type of good that will result in the most individual goods to be shipped.

However, once you select the type of good to be shipped,you must, if you have an option as to which ship the good can be shipped on, choose a ship that will result in the greatest number of those goods to be shipped. If two or more ships will result in the greatest number of those goods to be shipped, then you are free to select one of the ships that will produce that result.
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Patrick Koks
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mmm, my favourite part of Puerto Rico...

By choosing which goods (of multiple possibilities) you deliver first, you can actually influence the game a lot! Specifically choose one player that will NOT be able to deliver any goods, because all ships will be full, or even worse, are almost empty but contain the wrong goods.

Then, when your position allows you to choose the Captain again quickly after, YOU are the only one that had enough storage capabilities, so after all goods of others have rotten away and 1 or 2 ships have been emptied again, you can just have your private delivery party. Yes.

Or, the other way around, make sure that YOU will in the end NOT be able to deliver your coffee, so that you can then trade it for much money you were in need of.

yep, definitely my favourite part!
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Danny Mack
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My thanks to you gentlemen. This is especially helpful to me; I'm in the same boat as the OP--I bought it and learned it on my own via the rulebook, having never played it before. (I have made a 2-sided sheet for myself to be my "Cliff's Notes" of the rule book just to help me remember how it all works.)

I've had the game for over a month and have only had the opportunity to play with anyone on one occasion so far. So I had heard about the online incarnations of the game and gave it a try this week. I have been LOVING playing online every day!
However, there were a couple auto-directives (since so far I'm just getting my feet wet and playing Computer Players) that were bugging me--I wasn't sure they were right (like, maybe I wasn't clicking something I should've been, etc.)

Question #1 was one of them. I thought I was only required to make 1 delivery of goods during the Captain Phase, and that subsequent deliveries were optional. But the game kept snatching up my goods that I was trying to hold for sale during the Trader Phase. My cash flow kept floating off to the mother country!

Question #2 is great too. Since my goods were getting put on the boat for me, I couldn't figure out what the rhyme/reason was, other than that I got to choose to "box out" other players with my 1st delivery (which I did get to choose most of the time.) It seemed like everything was just being forcibly loaded and that section of the rules didn't make sense--"I thought I had a choice, dangit!"

I see now, that in those 2 statements in the rules, this is the key phrase "several empty ships." It makes sense from the perspective that the game designer wanted to leave options for players, even those who are loading late in the phase. It's a balance issue, I understand now. If I get first pick of the ships I have to load my largest quantity of goods. But if the ships are already dedicated, I can choose to place goods that may not be my most plentiful commodity (to outmaneuver others) but consequently I will score fewer VPs.

So then the 3rd statement that you brought up (coolpapa) was solid:
"Once I say 'I'm loading sugar', then I have to load as many as possible. But I don't have to pick sugar just because I can load more of them."
So well put. This pins the butterfly to the specimen board.
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KJ Meath
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My friend and I are in a heavy debate about this; Here's the scenario we are trying to figure out:

The 6 ship, 5 ship and 4 ship are all empty. The current player is about to place 4 corn. Can the player choose which ship he places the 4 corn on, or does he HAVE to place the 4 corn on the 6 ship?
 
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Steve Duff
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kjthekidwicked wrote:
The 6 ship, 5 ship and 4 ship are all empty. The current player is about to place 4 corn. Can the player choose which ship he places the 4 corn on, or does he HAVE to place the 4 corn on the 6 ship?


First choose the good:
Corn.

Choose the ship that will let you ship the most of that good:
I have 4 corn.

4 ship will let me ship all 4.
5 ship will let me ship all 4.
6 ship will let me ship all 4.

All are legal, choose any one of them you wish.
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KJ Meath
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
kjthekidwicked wrote:
The 6 ship, 5 ship and 4 ship are all empty. The current player is about to place 4 corn. Can the player choose which ship he places the 4 corn on, or does he HAVE to place the 4 corn on the 6 ship?


First choose the good:
Corn.

Choose the ship that will let you ship the most of that good:
I have 4 corn.

4 ship will let me ship all 4.
5 ship will let me ship all 4.
6 ship will let me ship all 4.

All are legal, choose any one of them you wish.


Cheers!
 
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Fraser
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
kjthekidwicked wrote:
The 6 ship, 5 ship and 4 ship are all empty. The current player is about to place 4 corn. Can the player choose which ship he places the 4 corn on, or does he HAVE to place the 4 corn on the 6 ship?


First choose the good:
Corn.

Choose the ship that will let you ship the most of that good:
I have 4 corn.

4 ship will let me ship all 4.
5 ship will let me ship all 4.
6 ship will let me ship all 4.

All are legal, choose any one of them you wish.

And then, if you wish, you can add to your decision tree, which one of the three ships will annoy the other players the most? devil
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Dan Nunuyerbiznez
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Puerto Rico » Forums » Rules
Re: Oh the tricky and often debated Captain Phase
unlpat wrote:
Question #1

Scenario: 4 ship (empty) 5 ship of Indigo (1 empty) 6 ship of corn (No empty). I have 3 Coffee and 1 Indigo.

I know of course when it is my turn that I must place the indigo. Assuming that the 4 ship remains empty and it is my turn again must I place my 3 Coffee on it? I am pretty sure I do I just want to clarify.

No, in the first shipping round, you are not required to place the indigo: you may also choose to ship the coffee. This is often the best choice, in fact.

In the second round, you must ship whatever good you have on hand which will fit on a ship, given the rules on goods placement on ships.

unlpat wrote:
Question #2 (And this is the one that really has me scratching my balding head)

One of the rules states that when a player has multiple goods and multiple opportunities he must ship the good that he can ship the most of but the very next rule on the page states that the player may choose when he has multiple goods with multiple opportunities and does not have to choose the one he can ship the most of.

This has me thoroughly confused. I have the 2002 Rio Grande Games Edition and it is the last two rules under the "Player must" section. It's not actually called that.

The actual rules read the following verbatim. Can someone please clarify this.

Quote:
If a player has a kind of goods that can be loaded on several empty ships, he must choose the ship where he can load the most goods, leaving none behind, if possible.

- If a player has several kinds of goods that he can load, he may choose
freely, which goods to load. He need not choose the goods that would allow him to load the most barrels.


Note that your paraphrase does not match the text:

Quote:
...One of the rules states that when a player has multiple goods and multiple opportunities he must ship the good that he can ship the most of.


...is NOT what the rule states. [I do note that the rules are listed in backward decision order...]

The first rule indicates that once you have already chosen a good to ship, you must choose the option that results in shipping the most of THAT good. The second rule (but first rule in the decision order) states that you can freely choose which of multiple goods you wish to ship.

So, the rules, by their order, are confusing, but the text of the rules is not.
 
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