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Chris White
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Elektro wrote:
how many villages does Dominion need? It gets a bit redundant... snore

...but I am curious about the other cards in the set anyway whistle


Dominion needs roughly one Village for every ten or so cards total, because Village is a really important effect and ought to show up in a high enough percentage of random sets.

So, yeah, as long as we have more cards we will ALWAYS need more Villages.
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Eric Lambeth
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senseless wrote:
Trader is huge in gardens decks! Any extra buy gets you a silver instead of a copper, and you can trash high-cost cards for an amusing amount of silvers.
The perfect complement to gardens+ironworks (or workshops) and gardens+bridges.


My first game of Trader happened to be in a deck that had the KC. So yes, it was fun. The first time I've ever seen the silver pile emptied zombie

I never did get around to Expanding my Traders. shake
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Andrew Lieffring
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Hockey Mask wrote:
donaldx wrote:
So what can a card do when you gain it? Some things are not so appropriate for that particular window of time, but many things are.

Do you suppose this "window of time" is as Hinterlands gets revealed or with future expansions?


The window of time is "when you gain a card." For example, "+1 card" is going to in most circumstances be pretty useless as a "when you gain this card" effect. The only way to gain a card inherent to the rules of Dominion (i.e. not kingdom card dependent) is buying, and when you buy a card you're past the point where you can play actions and treasure, so drawing a card isn't terribly appropriate for that window.
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Matt E
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I do appreciate the wording on Trader's reaction portion. 'When you would gain a card' is ever-so-subtlely different than 'when you gain a card'. Otherwise, questions would arise with the order of operations concerning Trade Route, etc.
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The Compulsive Completist
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IncompleteUserNa wrote:
Hockey Mask wrote:
donaldx wrote:
So what can a card do when you gain it? Some things are not so appropriate for that particular window of time, but many things are.

Do you suppose this "window of time" is as Hinterlands gets revealed or with future expansions?


The window of time is "when you gain a card." For example, "+1 card" is going to in most circumstances be pretty useless as a "when you gain this card" effect. The only way to gain a card inherent to the rules of Dominion (i.e. not kingdom card dependent) is buying, and when you buy a card you're past the point where you can play actions and treasure, so drawing a card isn't terribly appropriate for that window.


I read that at 6 am and understood it perfectly. read it this afternoon and was completley lost. modest I guess I am a morning person.
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David Murray
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allstar64 wrote:
Trader has some pretty funny themes going on.

Trader Treasure map. Terrible combo but:

"Hello good sir, might I interest you in this fine map leading to gold untold? yours for just 4 silver"
Time passes
"Why yes that was just half of the map. I have the other half right here, I'll sell you the other half for ... 4 more silver"

Or trader Bridge

"What do you mean you won't give me anything for this Province of my kingdom?"
"Well all those bridges you built really brought down the Real Estate value. I can take the Provence off your hands if you don't want it anymore but I can't give you any money for it"

david707 wrote:
Trader seems to have the potential to cause an empty Silver pile.


Notice how the reaction ability for trader does NOT say to trash the first gained card (the one you would have gotten). If you did you could make the silver pile run out by buying any card when you had trader in your hand.



I never said you could buy one card and empty the silver pile. Actually it took me a short while to work out how you could empty the silver pile in one go if it did trash ("gain a silver, trash it, instead gain a silver..."). What I meant is that if for some reason you wanted loads of silver (looking at you Gardens), then this card does it. Basically, so far Silver running out is very rare, but with Trader it'll happen more often ("trash a Silver, gain 3 silvers").

As for Border Village, there are plenty of times when you are willing to buy a 5 coin for 6 coins (early mountebank, witch or other powerful 5 cost card), and you basically get a free village. One way to view it is "If you buy a 5 cost card you can buy a village for 1". It might be tempting to go Border Village Torturer every time you get 6 coins, but Gold is a better option once you have a few Torturers ("I draw my whole deck, torturing you loads of times!", "I gain a curse from the empty curse pile each time", "I have 7 again, buy Border Village Torturer" shake)

Overall, loving what I see so far, looking forward to "trading" an Estate for 2 silvers and having 6 early and getting BV + Mountebank (but remembering to still buy gold!).
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Moosey
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I had a post-Cornucopia game with Kings Court + Workshop (forget the other cards) in the supply. We came down to 1-3 silver left in the supply. Didn't quite run it out. But was by far the closest we'd gotten.

I only use the silver from Vanilla or Intrigue. Not both. Keeps the stacks shorter so they don't fall over mainly. But, in the event of Copper/Silver/Gold being depleted, I don't know if I'd dig into the boxed away cards for more. I mean, the deck is out. But I believe I read something official once saying those three decks weren't supposed to be able to run out.

Honestly, I almost find it funny there are more copper than silver in the supply.
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Jeff Wolfe
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MooseyFate wrote:
I had a post-Cornucopia game with Kings Court + Workshop (forget the other cards) in the supply. We came down to 1-3 silver left in the supply. Didn't quite run it out. But was by far the closest we'd gotten.

I only use the silver from Vanilla or Intrigue. Not both. Keeps the stacks shorter so they don't fall over mainly. But, in the event of Copper/Silver/Gold being depleted, I don't know if I'd dig into the boxed away cards for more. I mean, the deck is out. But I believe I read something official once saying those three decks weren't supposed to be able to run out.

Honestly, I almost find it funny there are more copper than silver in the supply.

Silver can run out. And I have certainly played in my share of Trader games where it did. Once you run out of Silvers, that pile counts toward the 3 (or 4) pile ending. Intrigue has a rule that allows (but does not require) you to combine the Treasure from the base set and Intrigue, but this should only be done at the beginning of the game. Adding them later might mess up somebody's strategy (or enhance it, for that matter).
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Jonas Milke
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If the Estate pile is empty and I play a Baron without an Estate on my hand - may I reveal a Trader to get a Silver?

My guess is yes, but an official answer would be nice.
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Matt E
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Spielfrosch wrote:
If the Estate pile is empty and I play a Baron without an Estate on my hand - may I reveal a Trader to get a Silver?

My guess is yes, but an official answer would be nice.

Ooh, good question. I'm also guessing 'yes', since it's when you would gain a card, whether or not you can succeed once you tried to gain one.
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Nate S
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You would not gain an Estate, because there are no Estates to gain. You can try to gain an Estate and fail, but you could never actually gain one. Trader doesn't say "when you would gain a card if it were in the supply", it says "when you would gain a card".
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David Murray
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Spielfrosch wrote:
If the Estate pile is empty and I play a Baron without an Estate on my hand - may I reveal a Trader to get a Silver?

My guess is yes, but an official answer would be nice.


I'm going to say no, since trader replaces gaining a card and you are not actually gaining a card. Imagine if Hamlets (cost 2) were empty, I hope you agree with me that saying "I buy a Hamlet and gain a Silver instead" isn't allowed.
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Nate S
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The really weird interaction here is with Possession. Both have this "when X would gain" clause. If I Possess you and make you gain something, and you have a Trader in your hand, I can choose the order of those simultaneous effects. So if I make you gain something, I can make you do Trader's reaction effect first to gain a Silver instead, then resolve Possession's effect and gain the Silver myself.
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Nate Mohling
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david707 wrote:
Imagine if Hamlets (cost 2) were empty, I hope you agree with me that saying "I buy a Hamlet and gain a Silver instead" isn't allowed.


I'm not sure why you would attempt to buy a hamlet to gain a silver rather than a copper/curse.
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black b
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WallyNate wrote:
david707 wrote:
I hope you agree with me that saying "I buy a Hamlet and gain a Silver instead" isn't allowed.


I'm not sure why you would attempt to buy a hamlet to gain a silver rather than a copper/curse.

I don't know why you come up with this. It was just an example to Frogs question.
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Jonas Milke
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And another question from the German Dominion Forum:


I buy a Border Village and gain a Smithy. I want to reveal a Watchtower from my hand to put them both onto my deck. Do I have to put the BV there first? Or do the things both happen 'at the same time' and I can choose?
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Mark Judd
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ghorsche wrote:
The really weird interaction here is with Possession. Both have this "when X would gain" clause. If I Possess you and make you gain something, and you have a Trader in your hand, I can choose the order of those simultaneous effects. So if I make you gain something, I can make you do Trader's reaction effect first to gain a Silver instead, then resolve Possession's effect and gain the Silver myself.

It should also work if I had the Trader in my own hand. I Possess you and make you gain something which I actually gain instead. But then I reveal my Trader to swap the gained card with a Silver.
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Matt E
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david707 wrote:
I'm going to say no, since trader replaces gaining a card and you are not actually gaining a card. Imagine if Hamlets (cost 2) were empty, I hope you agree with me that saying "I buy a Hamlet and gain a Silver instead" isn't allowed.

The only reason that's not allowed is that I don't believe you can choose to buy a card that's no longer in the supply. When you play Baron, you're not getting a choice, you're just being told to gain a card. Hence, I think Trader will work in that instance.

Spielfrosch wrote:
And another question from the German Dominion Forum:


I buy a Border Village and gain a Smithy. I want to reveal a Watchtower from my hand to put them both onto my deck. Do I have to put the BV there first? Or do the things both happen 'at the same time' and I can choose?

I think you have to put the Smithy on your deck first, actually. When you have a Hoard in play, you gain the Gold before you gain the Victory card you bought.

EDIT: Wait, nevermind. Hoard activates on buy and Border Village activates on gain. You probably have to gain the Border Village first.

EDIT: Also, it finally makes sense to me why your Thief makes Treasure cards go to the Trash before you gain them. Thank you, Trader!
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Nate Mohling
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blackb wrote:
WallyNate wrote:
david707 wrote:
I hope you agree with me that saying "I buy a Hamlet and gain a Silver instead" isn't allowed.


I'm not sure why you would attempt to buy a hamlet to gain a silver rather than a copper/curse.

I don't know why you come up with this. It was just an example to Frogs question.

I guess I'm not sure why e thinks it's trivial to say that situation wouldn't be allowable.
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Nate S
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Beaveman wrote:

It should also work if I had the Trader in my own hand. I Possess you and make you gain something which I actually gain instead. But then I reveal my Trader to swap the gained card with a Silver.

Yep. I didn't bring it up because it's much less weird
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Donald X.
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Dominion: Hinterlands » Forums » News
Re: Previews #1
Spielfrosch wrote:
I buy a Border Village and gain a Smithy. I want to reveal a Watchtower from my hand to put them both onto my deck. Do I have to put the BV there first? Or do the things both happen 'at the same time' and I can choose?

Both Watchtower and Border Village respond to "when you gain" something. So you can pick the order. If you pick Border Village first, you'll gain a card costing less, and then could use Watchtower on that card, before deciding whether or not to use Watchtower for the Border Village. If you pick Watchtower first, you can put the Border Village on your deck before picking what card to gain, and then decide whether or not to put that card on your deck. This is just the usual timing rule, which is repeated in the Hinterlands rulebook.

Trader only works if you really would gain a card. If you try to gain a card from an empty pile, you can't use Trader then. I see how this is a question and sadly it is not covered in the FAQ.
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Nate S
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LastFootnote wrote:
When you play Baron, you're not getting a choice, you're just being told to gain a card. Hence, I think Trader will work in that instance.

When you play Baron with an empty Estate pile, would you gain an Estate? No! End of story.
 
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The Compulsive Completist
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donaldx wrote:
Trader only works if you really would gain a card. If you try to gain a card from an empty pile, you can't use Trader then.

::Copies quote for use on card divider::
 
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Mark Judd
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donaldx wrote:
...Trader only works if you really would gain a card. If you try to gain a card from an empty pile, you can't use Trader then. I see how this is a question and sadly it is not covered in the FAQ.

How could you possibly let a question such as this slip past playtesting and completely miss the FAQ? Perhaps you should preview the cards for the general public even sooner before the actual release so we can discover such points before the FAQ is completed and ready to be printed.

(please note the sarcastic tone due to my anticipation, excitement, and impatience for the actual release date)
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Drew Spencer
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ghorsche wrote:
LastFootnote wrote:
When you play Baron, you're not getting a choice, you're just being told to gain a card. Hence, I think Trader will work in that instance.

When you play Baron with an empty Estate pile, would you gain an Estate? No! End of story.


Well, you would if the pile weren't empty. Apparently the "would" in Trader refers to what you would do if you didn't reveal Trader, not what you would you do if you were able to do everything on the card.

I know it's moot now, but I'm pedantic and love to argue.
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