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ackmondual
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However, I went through some of the Event cards, and it seems...
1) bottom option is usually a discard option
2) Build Cylon Detector obviously has to be a special case if Admiral Tory doesn't have any nukes to discard
3) Sometimes, it's not consistent and the bottom is the worse choice.
 
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Matt Vollick
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What are the event cards?
 
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Roberta Yang
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What I never liked about the characters' design was that the Military Leaders, not the Political Leaders, always seemed to make the best Presidents. Roslin can't use the President's Office, so the Quorum deck is incredibly inefficient in her hands. Baltar is likely to be a Cylon. Ellen Tigh can't sit alone in the President's Office without giving up her ability to draw two extra cards. Even Zarek has a drawback in that he is the most dangerous Cylon President, being the hardest to take the Presidency from and having the easiest time keeping the humans he Arrest Ordered locked in the Brig; better to let someone else be President so Zarek can either depose the Cylon President if necessary or be unable to quickly Arrest people if he is a Cylon himself.

Conversely, the Military Leaders all have no obvious drawback as President - okay, Gaeta might want to be using his Engineering to repair Galactica and Helo might want to be in space, but Cain/Adama/Saul are fine (and Helo's ECO power is nice as a post-sleeper President who can't get XO's due to suspicion, since it makes it easier for Inspirational Speeches and such to be passed anyhow). Sure, they're likely to be Admiral, but the Admiral and President titles don't have any synergy that makes them particularly dangerous in Cylon hands together - a Cylon title-holder is still only getting one surprise reveal action regardless of how many titles they hold - and consolidating them into one person makes it easy for both of them to be inspected simultaneously. Combine that with Saul Tigh's OPG and multiple Crises that easily make the Admiral become President, and why would we ever want any of the Political Leaders to do any political leading?

(I suspect the intention was to encourage fighting over the President title, but wasting Skill Cards on pointless infighting is an easy way to lose and only the Military Leaders can really claim to be a good choice for President, so the President title tends to quickly gravitate toward the obvious choice.)

Because of that, I was glad that Exodus finally introduced a Political Leader who made a fine President, so giving her a revised drawback that basically makes her completely inelligible to be President would negate that entirely.
 
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ackmondual
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Vollick1979 wrote:
What are the event cards?
Crisis cards that say and utilize the "Admiral Chooses..." or "President Chooses..." mechanic, as opposed to the 2 other types of crisis cards consisting of CAC (Cylon Attack Cards) or Skill Check. As any experienced player has seen, the Skill Check crisis cards can then be subdivided into standard, those with partial pass, or with an alternative.

I believe the "CAG Chooses..." cards from Exodus' CFB are also considered event cards.
 
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ackmondual
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salty53 wrote:
What I never liked about the characters' design was that the Military Leaders, not the Political Leaders, always seemed to make the best Presidents. Roslin can't use the President's Office, so the Quorum deck is incredibly inefficient in her hands. Baltar is likely to be a Cylon. Ellen Tigh can't sit alone in the President's Office without giving up her ability to draw two extra cards. Even Zarek has a drawback in that he is the most dangerous Cylon President, being the hardest to take the Presidency from and having the easiest time keeping the humans he Arrest Ordered locked in the Brig; better to let someone else be President so Zarek can either depose the Cylon President if necessary or be unable to quickly Arrest people if he is a Cylon himself.

Conversely, the Military Leaders all have no obvious drawback as President - okay, Gaeta might want to be using his Engineering to repair Galactica and Helo might want to be in space, but Cain/Adama/Saul are fine (and Helo's ECO power is nice as a post-sleeper President who can't get XO's due to suspicion, since it makes it easier for Inspirational Speeches and such to be passed anyhow). Sure, they're likely to be Admiral, but the Admiral and President titles don't have any synergy that makes them particularly dangerous in Cylon hands together - a Cylon title-holder is still only getting one surprise reveal action regardless of how many titles they hold - and consolidating them into one person makes it easy for both of them to be inspected simultaneously. Combine that with Saul Tigh's OPG and multiple Crises that easily make the Admiral become President, and why would we ever want any of the Political Leaders to do any political leading?

(I suspect the intention was to encourage fighting over the President title, but wasting Skill Cards on pointless infighting is an easy way to lose and only the Military Leaders can really claim to be a good choice for President, so the President title tends to quickly gravitate toward the obvious choice.)

Because of that, I was glad that Exodus finally introduced a Political Leader who made a fine President, so giving her a revised drawback that basically makes her completely inelligible to be President would negate that entirely.


If being President is defined as working the Qcards for this bloc of discussion, then Roslin and Tory have their OPG. Ellen can grab the Presidency for one turn with hers. The Mil. Leaders that don't draw enough Y and G are weaker in using Admin to grab the presidency. Otherwise, having first licks at president title in line of succession does count for alot.

Military Leaders aren't that good at whatever the heck they're supposed to be doing anyways..... using locations? Almost everyone can use locations just fine. Some have argued that "Millies" tend to draw more SP, but "Pollies" can be helpful playing Prevatative Policies to help keep resources higher during jumps and such.
 
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David F
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No.

I've tried a force-choose Adm/Pres Choice weakness before, and it's anti-climactic as hell when you're forced to choose a game-ending option.

At least if you're forced to choose a skill check, you can actually try to pass it.
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Roberta Yang
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ackmondual wrote:
If being President is defined as working the Qcards for this bloc of discussion, then Roslin and Tory have their OPG. Ellen can grab the Presidency for one turn with hers.

Why would we define "being President" in terms of "using abilities related to the Quorum deck that don't actually involve being President and in fact generally work better if the user ISN'T President"? Why wouldn't we define it in terms of "actually being good when holding the President title card" - you know, the thing that's actually used to decide who gets to hold the President title card, and thus actually be President?

ackmondual wrote:
The Mil. Leaders that don't draw enough Y and G are weaker in using Admin to grab the presidency.

All Military Leaders draw at least two Green (or, in Gaeta's case, possibly Yellow instead), and it's an easy Skill Check, but more importantly, since the Military Leaders are objectively better Presidents than the Political Leaders, they should be able to rely on support in receiving the Presidency. The only player with any incentive to oppose - the sitting President - still shouldn't be wasting the human team's Skill Cards on pointless infighting by going against the majority, and their hand is mostly YG anyhow so they can't spike very well anyhow.

ackmondual wrote:
Otherwise, having first licks at president title in line of succession does count for alot.

Not really - unless Roslin and Ellen are Cylons who intend to reveal almost immediately, they should WANT to give away their title, since they know just as well as everyone else that they're really bad at being President. (Baltar and Zarek, only probelmatic due to their increased risk of being Cylons, don't have this issue, so they may be able to stall for a jump cycle or so by pointing out more urgent things to do, but they'll still need to cave to the rest of the human team soon enough.) Being first in the line of succession later in the game may help Baltar/Zarek if a Cylon-President reveals and they can subsequently be trusted - but it just leaves Roslin/Ellen forced to give away their title again, since their inefficiency makes them bad Presidents and thus keeping their title hurts their team.

ackmondual wrote:
Military Leaders aren't that good at whatever the heck they're supposed to be doing anyways..... using locations? Almost everyone can use locations just fine. Some have argued that "Millies" tend to draw more SP, but "Pollies" can be helpful playing Prevatative Policies to help keep resources higher during jumps and such.

Indeed, Military Leaders aren't any better than anyone else at doing what they do - but at least they aren't any worse than anyone else at it. Nobody ever says, "Get Saul Tigh out of Command, he sucks there." Nobody ever says, "Adama's a terrible Admiral, let's lock him up so we can pass it to Lee, who's much better."
 
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ackmondual
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selwyth wrote:
No.

I've tried a force-choose Adm/Pres Choice weakness before, and it's anti-climactic as hell when you're forced to choose a game-ending option.

At least if you're forced to choose a skill check, you can actually try to pass it.
I'd agree with this, but then this could be the gateway to all other weaknesses, drawbacks, and OPG being deemed anti-climatic as well. Besides, there are cases where humans simply don't have the strength to pass a skill check. Sure, there's always luck in Destiny, but some cases, it's clear as day it ain't gonna happen... and that's before you count cylons spiking the skill check.
 
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ackmondual
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salty53 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
The Mil. Leaders that don't draw enough Y and G are weaker in using Admin to grab the presidency.

All Military Leaders draw at least two Green (or, in Gaeta's case, possibly Yellow instead), and it's an easy Skill Check, but more importantly, since the Military Leaders are objectively better Presidents than the Political Leaders, they should be able to rely on support in receiving the Presidency. The only player with any incentive to oppose - the sitting President - still shouldn't be wasting the human team's Skill Cards on pointless infighting by going against the majority, and their hand is mostly YG anyhow so they can't spike very well anyhow.
Yes, but the Political Leaders draw mostly YG. While someone like Saul has 2 cards good towards Admin, Tory has 4 cards that are positive towards Admin, which for this bullet point and to me, does make them better at one facet of "presidential stuff"



salty53 wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
Otherwise, having first licks at president title in line of succession does count for alot.

Not really - unless Roslin and Ellen are Cylons who intend to reveal almost immediately, they should WANT to give away their title, since they know just as well as everyone else that they're really bad at being President. (Baltar and Zarek, only probelmatic due to their increased risk of being Cylons, don't have this issue, so they may be able to stall for a jump cycle or so by pointing out more urgent things to do, but they'll still need to cave to the rest of the human team soon enough.) Being first in the line of succession later in the game may help Baltar/Zarek if a Cylon-President reveals and they can subsequently be trusted - but it just leaves Roslin/Ellen forced to give away their title again, since their inefficiency makes them bad Presidents and thus keeping their title hurts their team.


At least when Roslin has the president title, she can do the action on the president title for free, to be used as a fallback plan. Even if someone like Baltar or Tory are humans, sometimes they're better off using locations since they're more efficient than Roslin. Don't get me wrong... Qcards can swing the game, but other times, you need to mitigate risks and just go with a surer action, like activating a location.

In a 5p game with 2 cylons out, your team allocation pretty much breaks down to....
2 location users without restrictions and 1 decent president/XO user.
vs.
1 good location user, 1 poor location user/XO user, and a better president.

The former isn't always the way to go, but sometimes, it's the preferred one.

 
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Darren Nakamura
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I'm not sure I even agree that Military Leaders are objectively better Presidents than Political Leaders are.

The reasons cited for Zarek being a poor choice for President (that he can keep people locked up in the Brig and keep from being voted out) only apply if he is a Cylon. He's a GREAT President if he's human, because he can keep the Cylons he threw in the Brig in there, and keep Cylons from taking his title. Considering any one person has a better chance of being human than Cylon, I don't see his abilities being a downside at all.

Roslin makes for a bad President, I'll agree, and Baltar and Ellen aren't ideal, but I don't think they're any worse than having a President Adama or Tigh.

President Helo would be pretty nice, I'll admit...
 
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David Turczi
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selwyth wrote:
No.

I've tried a force-choose Adm/Pres Choice weakness before, and it's anti-climactic as hell when you're forced to choose a game-ending option.

At least if you're forced to choose a skill check, you can actually try to pass it.


I've often pondered the OP's question.
This just convinced me

Maybe guys at FFG did know something! (even if Tory's OPT is still too powerful)



Also, I've been Supreme Leader Helo (PrCAGmiral), while it was too bad that I couldn't be in space all the time (President and CAG doesn't mix well), it was sure good to have both President and Admiral to consider for rolling! (and I was the only one being targeted by discard crisises!)
 
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Mooseared Ferenczy
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I like how you discount Zarek and Baltar as good presidents because they are too good at being cylons but you want to default to consolidating admiral and president into one character who inherently draws cards that can defend themselves from administration checks.
Yes, Roslin is bad at being the president. That is sort of the point. She has a really powerful OPT, a decent OPG and starts off with a title. That is why there is such a drawback to her being president. The same reason why Adama has a pretty mediocre set of abilities. He defaults to having access to the nukes and jump control. Why they made Cain so much more powerful it beyond me.
 
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Matt Vollick
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Battlestar Galactica: Exodus Expansion » Forums » Variants
Re: Anyone think Tory's weakness (Ammoral) should've applied to event crisis cards as well?
I'm currently running a variant game where Tory's Amoral disadvantage applies to all current playaer, President, Admiral, CAG decisions she has to make. I think it's a good way to keep her insanely powerful Adaptable ability in check.

If it's too much of a damaging disadvantage I'd just modify it to include any decisions she has to make on her turn.
 
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