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Subject: PLEASE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP ME rss

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If "Sealed" is the Netrunner experience that you are trying to sell, but all means, it is your project, but I do want to point out that your basis maybe rooted in your personal viewpoints that may not be hold true for the general public.

I personally do not like Sealed in every CCG that's I've ever played and like you I've played pretty much all of them. Some people love sealed but it definitely is not for everyone.

I agree Netrunner plays extremely well sealed and could be the CCG that plays sealed best, but I've never played a CCG where having multiple copies of cards is competitively on par or worse than having one being able to have one. I've played Netrunner from its inception and still play to this very day and I assure you my finely tuned decks will have a heavy advantage over a highlander deck. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

As long as people know a sealed experience is what they are getting, that's fine, but I'm sure there are others like me that thought this was about getting a full deck construction package and not a highlander/sealed package.
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Jon W
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Icons/Foils
No foils, yuck. Adding a "Vital" icon is essential for a game where you need to break out certain cards after each session (simulating a sealed-deck experience). Maybe/maybe not on the other rarities (I say "not", as a reboot as an LCG/non-collectible eliminates the need, but not with the Vitals: those must be marked for easy separation).

Price/Pre-order
I don't really care on the price, I'll likely buy it regardless, unless you do something really weird. Ditto with pre-ordering (once I see the real plan and it isn't bizarre).

General Remarks
NR plays best sealed, but this "NR Redux" set is a different product, so I think a slavish devotion to replicating the old game is a bad idea. If the standard, "out of the box" experience for this is intended to mimic sealed, that experience should be enhanced. Some ideas/opinions:

1. Make more cards Vitals. The rock-paper-scissors nature of breakers and ice requires some equivalent of the Vital rarity, but this is an opportunity for more variability, rather than "okay, Loony Goon or Shaka?" for the 50th time. The Runner needs more cheap bit gainers, and the Corp more cheap/annoying Ice, etc.

2. Make the initial set a "best of" some subset (300?) of the old game's cards. Duplicating the base set, Proteus, Classic, then Rogues/Silent Impact/Chrysalid Matrix/Deep Runs/Dangerous Allies/etc. is a bad idea. Why repeat the mistakes of Proteus, or have Stealth remain so useless (for example)? You should apply an editorial hand and include some cards from Proteus and Classic, and maybe even some unpublished cards, in the initial NR Redux set. Crowdsource some of this, or if you're in communication with Garfield, then...hey, there you go.

3. Keep (but fix) the unlimited constructed format. People can always use sleeves and proxies, as they do now. Yes, some cards need fixing (Enterprise Inc. Shields, Tycho, Viral Pipeline), but it's a unique concept that shouldn't be removed, even though it's much harder to design around. If people don't want to play it, don't! Easy peasy.

4a. Release larger expansions (150?) less frequently rather than small monthly ones (such as the FFG LCG model). It's easier to stay "unified" and have larger themes more comprehensively integrated, and there's less of the "keep up or fall behind" mentality.

4b. But only add fully supported functions via expansions. I like the idea of Bad Publicity, but 10 cards!?

Could go on, will stop there. It's great that you're looking into this, best of luck to you!
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Kenneth Rasch
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I agree with alot of what Darksbane, and other people have said.

I like the idea of multiple copies of some cards, and then not releasing the full set all at once.
I think it will make it much easier for beginners to get into the game.
The box should also have pre-made decks.

Offcourse expansions should have the rest of the cards.

With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.

The pre-made decks could easily have some sort of "theme". I recently learned the netrunner rules by building some demo-decks that I found on netrunneronline.com The decks had some kind of a "theme" and it just made learning the game much easier.

If you release a complete set, but only 1 of each card - I think you are mainly targeting the fans of the game. People who allready understand the rules.

What I am saying is, that I like how A Game of Thrones LCG (and probably other LCG) are doing things.

Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.
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darksurtur
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I appreciate wormhole surfer's enthusiasm and deep knowledge, but at this point I am deeply concerned that s/he is simply too enamored with the current game, as is, to make necessary decisions about a reprint. Comments like "the current game is the best ever," "it's the deepest game ever made," and "in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," suggest an inability to step back and honestly assess the game and its flaws. And yes, every game has flaws, but this is especially true of CCGs due to their complex interactions and continuous expansion.

I get that sealed is a very interesting way to play Netrunner. But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game. As suggested above, if sealed is so important, use icons to make it possible to sort cards into suggested packages that emulate sealed, or make a separate product.

Most importantly, as I have said at least thrice, stop thinking of Netrunner as something other than a living, breathing game and truly take to heart the suggestions of those who bring an outside perspective to bear.
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Jon W
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Denton wrote:
With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.
...
Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.

I think you (and others) make a nice argument, and I can see your side without quite agreeing with it. Richard Garfield once noted (in an interview with the OP, no less) that in Magic your cards play you, while in NR you play your cards. The "engine" driving the game is complex, but the cards need not be, and there are many things you can do without cards at all, or with a very minimal tableau. There are also almost no cases in NR where Card X is useless without Card Y in play, which is very different from other CCGish games (and is a big reason why pre-made decks are necessary for those games, but not for NR).

To your point, confusion can be avoided if the initial set is chosen with simplicity of card effects in mind. NR has a lot of "simple" cards. For instance, once you understand how Ice and Icebreakers work, there is basically no complexity increase when comparing two different cards of those types (it's just cost, type, and maybe a symbol and three words of text). You're not scanning a paragraph and picking out a bunch of keywords, or relying (much) on cards coming out in a particular order.

The cards supplement the game more than they drive it. Which was one huge reason why I, as a beginner, was so drawn to this game after the first play, as it was utterly unlike other CCGs. So the same rules don't quite apply when discussing highlander, IMHO.
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Jon W
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darksurtur wrote:
But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game.

Sealed is the way most people first learn the game. Take a starter, open it, read the rules, shuffle, play. You don't even need to tune the deck, as the way the Vitals worked, you were guaranteed to have a playable game right out of the box.

Again, totally unlike most CCGs. The "clean, ready-to-enjoy, learnable" game is the sealed game.
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Andy Stout
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Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.

In any case, the most exciting thing about this Netrunner set would be the sealed-deck/limited games, and that's always Highlander anyway (unless you add a booster or two).
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Andy Stout
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I am a Netrunner "beginner": I have played Netrunner and have several NR sealed decks that I play with, but I've never played in any competitions or built any constructed decks.

1) No difference is preferred, icons are okay, but PLEASE no foils. Foils are really obnoxious to deal with in MTG, as they curl and warp.

2) Frankly, any price $100 and under is fine, people need to remember that this is a small enterprise and that you're getting 11 times as many unique cards as a Dominion box.

3) I will buy one copy, maybe two.

4) I would preorder it once it's definitely set and I'm certain my money isn't going to disappear into a hole.


By FAR the most important part of the box to me would be rules for creating fake sealed decks. This is still fairly unknown, as although we know how many of each rarity goes in a sealed deck, we don't know how they managed to always get a nice balance of the types of Vital cards in each sealed deck. I would not buy a box without good rules for creating sealed decks.

The other things I'd most like to see would be counters included: bits (we always use pennies) and counters for the various cards that need them, like viruses etc.
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Jon W
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dragonstout wrote:
By FAR the most important part of the box to me would be rules for creating fake sealed decks. This is still fairly unknown, as although we know how many of each rarity goes in a sealed deck, we don't know how they managed to always get a nice balance of the types of Vital cards in each sealed deck.

We actually do know this:

Corp: 30 Commons 11 (of 22) Vitals 17 Uncommons 2 Rares
Runner: 30 Commons 15 (of 22) Vitals 13 Uncommons 2 Rares

Booster: 7 Commons 2 Vitals 5 Uncommons 1 Rare


They are all unique cards, so you're guaranteed to have a breaker of each type, etc. Increasing the number (as I suggested earlier) might mess with this, but in the interest of variability something should be done. I could see 3 stacks of Vitals, for instance (say, 20 unique cards each side, so you have VA, VB, and VC icons), where you draw 5 cards from each. Or something along those lines. Seeing 15 of the same 22 cards every starter is just too repetitive.
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Drew Dallas
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dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.


That depends on your point of view. Few play it in comparison to the number that play type 2 or many of the other Magic formats, but this is extremely off topic. Lets just say that highlander formats across all CCGs are not near as popular as constructed or sealed formats.
 
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Andy Stout
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Darksbane wrote:
dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.


That depends on your point of view. Few play it in comparison to the number that play type 2 or many of the other Magic formats, but this is extremely off topic. Lets just say that highlander formats across all CCGs are not near as popular as constructed or sealed formats.


I'm not a big Elder Dragon Highlander fan, but I'd say it's the most popular format other than type 2 and booster draft.

waddball wrote:
We actually do know this:

Corp: 30 Commons 11 (of 22) Vitals 17 Uncommons 2 Rares
Runner: 30 Commons 15 (of 22) Vitals 13 Uncommons 2 Rares

Booster: 7 Commons 2 Vitals 5 Uncommons 1 Rare

They are all unique cards, so you're guaranteed to have a breaker of each type, etc. Increasing the number (as I suggested earlier) might mess with this, but in the interest of variability something should be done. I could see 3 stacks of Vitals, for instance (say, 20 unique cards each side, so you have VA, VB, and VC icons), where you draw 5 cards from each. Or something along those lines. Seeing 15 of the same 22 cards every starter is just too repetitive.


I know about the breakdown...but does 11 completely random runner vitals really guarantee you a breaker of each type and a tag-avoider and I-forget-what-else-is-vital? I don't think so.

BTW, waddball's idea of marking the rarity of the cards on the cards to make sorting way easier for fake sealed is essential, I think. As is his idea that some other cards be made vital, like bit-gainers.
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Ludovic schmidt
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fredcvbgt wrote:
If "Sealed" is the Netrunner experience that you are trying to sell, but all means, it is your project, but I do want to point out that your basis maybe rooted in your personal viewpoints that may not be hold true for the general public.

I personally do not like Sealed in every CCG that's I've ever played and like you I've played pretty much all of them. Some people love sealed but it definitely is not for everyone.

I agree Netrunner plays extremely well sealed and could be the CCG that plays sealed best, but I've never played a CCG where having multiple copies of cards is competitively on par or worse than having one being able to have one. I've played Netrunner from its inception and still play to this very day and I assure you my finely tuned decks will have a heavy advantage over a highlander deck. Don't kid yourself otherwise.

As long as people know a sealed experience is what they are getting, that's fine, but I'm sure there are others like me that thought this was about getting a full deck construction package and not a highlander/sealed package.


Hi, i am going to respond to your points, anyway thanks for your comments .

i don't want to provide a sealed experience with the Netrunner reprint.
You are right to say that sealed games is my preference but it is also the best for majority of Netrunner players.
The main goal of this reprint is to provide cards to players who have not.When you start a game, you have to start with something, in Netrunner you can start with building decks with only 1 copy of a cards i still and forever maintain this because it is just true .
this box has to be a super starter, if you like the game, then you can buy more .

don't compare please ccg and Netrunner ... This game is so far away much better than any other one .

you're right, even in Netrunner playing a decks with multiple copies of cards will give you an advantage on people playing only cards in single but giving advantage in NR is not giving voctory BUT i agree with you that for tournament play for exemple people as to be in the same format.
what i tried to explaine in my big post upper is that people will choose by themselves the way they will play and consequently choose oponent who play the same format .

yeah sure, if you wanna build decks with several copies you'll have to buy several boxes ...

buying X times a box containing 374 cards is the same that buying Y boxes containing X copies of a cards ( X is equal to the maximum copiy of a card you want and Y is equal to the number of part the base set could eb divided )it is exactly the same for people who want constructed decks ( whatever the constructed format he will play) BUT we don't impose to buy X copies of cards for people who just want to start or play sealed/higlander
Do You agree with that ? with the fact that it is not faire for them ?

You know i have a very huge collection of cards , i can build EVERY Netrunner decks whatever the format, if i add to rate format in terms of pleasure it would be something like this :

sealed 10/10
No limit 9/10
1/15 8/10
Highlander 7/10

as you see i also enjoy deck building and constructed decks, i love to have brainstorming and deep analysis of metagame, strategy, ...
 
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Ludovic schmidt
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waddball wrote:
Icons/Foils
No foils, yuck. Adding a "Vital" icon is essential for a game where you need to break out certain cards after each session (simulating a sealed-deck experience). Maybe/maybe not on the other rarities (I say "not", as a reboot as an LCG/non-collectible eliminates the need, but not with the Vitals: those must be marked for easy separation).

Price/Pre-order
I don't really care on the price, I'll likely buy it regardless, unless you do something really weird. Ditto with pre-ordering (once I see the real plan and it isn't bizarre).

General Remarks
NR plays best sealed, but this "NR Redux" set is a different product, so I think a slavish devotion to replicating the old game is a bad idea. If the standard, "out of the box" experience for this is intended to mimic sealed, that experience should be enhanced. Some ideas/opinions:

1. Make more cards Vitals. The rock-paper-scissors nature of breakers and ice requires some equivalent of the Vital rarity, but this is an opportunity for more variability, rather than "okay, Loony Goon or Shaka?" for the 50th time. The Runner needs more cheap bit gainers, and the Corp more cheap/annoying Ice, etc.

2. Make the initial set a "best of" some subset (300?) of the old game's cards. Duplicating the base set, Proteus, Classic, then Rogues/Silent Impact/Chrysalid Matrix/Deep Runs/Dangerous Allies/etc. is a bad idea. Why repeat the mistakes of Proteus, or have Stealth remain so useless (for example)? You should apply an editorial hand and include some cards from Proteus and Classic, and maybe even some unpublished cards, in the initial NR Redux set. Crowdsource some of this, or if you're in communication with Garfield, then...hey, there you go.

3. Keep (but fix) the unlimited constructed format. People can always use sleeves and proxies, as they do now. Yes, some cards need fixing (Enterprise Inc. Shields, Tycho, Viral Pipeline), but it's a unique concept that shouldn't be removed, even though it's much harder to design around. If people don't want to play it, don't! Easy peasy.

4a. Release larger expansions (150?) less frequently rather than small monthly ones (such as the FFG LCG model). It's easier to stay "unified" and have larger themes more comprehensively integrated, and there's less of the "keep up or fall behind" mentality.

4b. But only add fully supported functions via expansions. I like the idea of Bad Publicity, but 10 cards!?

Could go on, will stop there. It's great that you're looking into this, best of luck to you!


Hi Jon, nice to see you here

+1000 for your post?
i like the way you analyze the game, your critisms are constructed by your experience of the game and not only a " war" on number of copies needed ...

your very right on the point 1 and maybe your point 2 is linked to that.
maybe yes, the old base set and expansion has to be divided and newly constructed in order to deeply improve the game experience.
but i am not in favor of put aside some cards ( release some later yes but not forget them)
as you maybe see, we relaesed open war last year, i took some late to release the newest Deep Run , just because we, (NRO team )are in late to balanced it.
I don't want to release every old virtual expansion released just because some of them are bad worded, bad balanced, ...but a best of some . yes maybe, or rebalanced them completly .. will see later ... in a first place the "big box"

you'll see that in many Playful's EE expansion newest BAd pub cards will be, and Deep run runner part is mainly focused on Stealth cards .. and i have to tell you that a kind of new bartmoss will be released ... ! and it will be a stealth icebreaker !!
just be patient .. you will see that underpowered cards of the past will have an interest


you are once again right on your 4a point, and i'll go further.. as i said in a previous post, Netrunner doesn't need many many cards for several reasons :

people will not follow
Netrunner doesn't need thousand of new cards
Netrunner CAN'T have as much flexibility of some others games ( from Richard Garfield comments ...)

if we don't un balanced the game and have "the magic power syndrom" we have to respect it ...


Thank for your answer
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Denton wrote:
I agree with alot of what Darksbane, and other people have said.

I like the idea of multiple copies of some cards, and then not releasing the full set all at once.
I think it will make it much easier for beginners to get into the game.
The box should also have pre-made decks.

Offcourse expansions should have the rest of the cards.

With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.

The pre-made decks could easily have some sort of "theme". I recently learned the netrunner rules by building some demo-decks that I found on netrunneronline.com The decks had some kind of a "theme" and it just made learning the game much easier.

If you release a complete set, but only 1 of each card - I think you are mainly targeting the fans of the game. People who allready understand the rules.

What I am saying is, that I like how A Game of Thrones LCG (and probably other LCG) are doing things.

Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.


Hi Runner and thank you for your comments .
I like too build decks with multiple copy of a card, that's why i bought several cards.
releasing a full set at once ?
as i already said ... what is a full set in Netrunner ? once again we can't impose to people to buy more cards that they want...

getting into a game has always be with a starter option or premade decks
the big box will be designed like this don't fear, it will contained playable decks and all to start.

my starting idea was to release the base set in the first box but yes maybe we could redisgn it by creating a sort of best of really improve to get better into the game and release after in expansions the sequel of every expansions.

Please stop to compare Netrunner as a LCG or other CCG
Netrunner is Netrunner it can't be compared to any other game

you raised a good point where you speak about targeting people who already know the rules and you're right to say that playing some theme decks is easier to understand the different concept of the game.

a such box is made to start the game so such point have to be taken into accounts and the difficulty is to do a good mix of
beginner/experienced
quantity/cost

i am not drastically against a box containing several copies of cards BUT

I couldn't tell the number of copies... since i repeat myself it is a nonsense for Netrunner
and second point we have to let people buy what they want ... and you could tell many 100000 of good arguments, if a players don't want to buy more than one you can't force him ... the contrary is possible with my idea ... not with yours
 
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darksurtur wrote:
I appreciate wormhole surfer's enthusiasm and deep knowledge, but at this point I am deeply concerned that s/he is simply too enamored with the current game, as is, to make necessary decisions about a reprint. Comments like "the current game is the best ever," "it's the deepest game ever made," and "in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," suggest an inability to step back and honestly assess the game and its flaws. And yes, every game has flaws, but this is especially true of CCGs due to their complex interactions and continuous expansion.

I get that sealed is a very interesting way to play Netrunner. But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game. As suggested above, if sealed is so important, use icons to make it possible to sort cards into suggested packages that emulate sealed, or make a separate product.

Most importantly, as I have said at least thrice, stop thinking of Netrunner as something other than a living, breathing game and truly take to heart the suggestions of those who bring an outside perspective to bear.


I have to admit that i agree with you ...

but "in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," this is a quote from Richard Himself it is not from me ...

it is really difficult to be objective for me because i play since 1999 and have 6000 cards.
i have to take into account beginner, experienced players, beginners who have cards, beginner who have not cards, experienced who have cards and experienced who have not.

Which is true is that the new bix box has to be an entry point for the game
it has to be playable right out the box
it has to be simple to learn and present several aspects of the game

how to do it respecting these conditions :

it has to be the cheapest
and we can't force people to buy more that they want/need .

i am not against your ideas guys, i am for the evolution but my experienced shaped me in order to present the project in the best way to me ...

 
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waddball wrote:
Denton wrote:
With fewer different cards, and pre-made decks, you will not have to read and understand so many different cards at once. During gameplay you will draw cards that you may allready have in play, and allready know what the card does.
...
Netrunner might be very good at highlander play, but I think it will confuse beginners.

I think you (and others) make a nice argument, and I can see your side without quite agreeing with it. Richard Garfield once noted (in an interview with the OP, no less) that in Magic your cards play you, while in NR you play your cards. The "engine" driving the game is complex, but the cards need not be, and there are many things you can do without cards at all, or with a very minimal tableau. There are also almost no cases in NR where Card X is useless without Card Y in play, which is very different from other CCGish games (and is a big reason why pre-made decks are necessary for those games, but not for NR).

To your point, confusion can be avoided if the initial set is chosen with simplicity of card effects in mind. NR has a lot of "simple" cards. For instance, once you understand how Ice and Icebreakers work, there is basically no complexity increase when comparing two different cards of those types (it's just cost, type, and maybe a symbol and three words of text). You're not scanning a paragraph and picking out a bunch of keywords, or relying (much) on cards coming out in a particular order.

The cards supplement the game more than they drive it. Which was one huge reason why I, as a beginner, was so drawn to this game after the first play, as it was utterly unlike other CCGs. So the same rules don't quite apply when discussing highlander, IMHO.


i agree on all, it is very hard to explain for me my point of view since NR is very different than other games ...
 
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dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:
dragonstout wrote:
Darksbane wrote:

Magic can be played highlander but few do it


I'm going to respond to the OP's questions in a second, but I just had to call this out as EXTREMELY false. Elder Dragon Highlander aka Commander is currently by far the most popular casual Magic format.


That depends on your point of view. Few play it in comparison to the number that play type 2 or many of the other Magic formats, but this is extremely off topic. Lets just say that highlander formats across all CCGs are not near as popular as constructed or sealed formats.


I'm not a big Elder Dragon Highlander fan, but I'd say it's the most popular format other than type 2 and booster draft.

waddball wrote:
We actually do know this:

Corp: 30 Commons 11 (of 22) Vitals 17 Uncommons 2 Rares
Runner: 30 Commons 15 (of 22) Vitals 13 Uncommons 2 Rares

Booster: 7 Commons 2 Vitals 5 Uncommons 1 Rare

They are all unique cards, so you're guaranteed to have a breaker of each type, etc. Increasing the number (as I suggested earlier) might mess with this, but in the interest of variability something should be done. I could see 3 stacks of Vitals, for instance (say, 20 unique cards each side, so you have VA, VB, and VC icons), where you draw 5 cards from each. Or something along those lines. Seeing 15 of the same 22 cards every starter is just too repetitive.


I know about the breakdown...but does 11 completely random runner vitals really guarantee you a breaker of each type and a tag-avoider and I-forget-what-else-is-vital? I don't think so.

BTW, waddball's idea of marking the rarity of the cards on the cards to make sorting way easier for fake sealed is essential, I think. As is his idea that some other cards be made vital, like bit-gainers.


i agree with that guy
 
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Jeffrey Speer
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I sent you a PM. Hope this goes well, Netrunner is one of the most depressing failures of a great game I've ever seen.
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Ludovic schmidt
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Hi again everyone,

i suggest, in order to clarify this topic to separate our comments .
I suggest that this topic could remain the one about jacking into my mailing lists for people interested in the projects
to summ up things i need ( better in PM)

first and last name
email adress
1 what kind of stuff could be attractive for you : alternative art on some cards/foils cards, tokens, playmat, ...

2 what could be for you the best price ( i know it is difficult to say about since it will depends of the exact contents but let say about 400 cards inside)

3 will you buy it ? and how many ? ( reliable to point 2 .. difficult to say , i know, since the contents is not established ...)

4 will you preorder this ? ( kickstarter, preordering on editor's , ...)

this topic is just a tool for me to evaluate the number of people interested and put some numbers behind.

For other comments about your wishes for the box, what is best to begin, copies of cards, ... you know what i mean.. i suggest to post in the other topic i'm going to create just right now ...

Thanks so much guys for your interests.
(i am going to post here soon , a deeper self presentation and a deeper analysis of what i have in mind to develop the project)


seeya in the other topic to discuss about the contents

Let the Run Begin !!
 
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Ludovic schmidt
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Netrunner » Forums » News
Re: PLEASE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP ME
Kaworu17 wrote:
I sent you a PM. Hope this goes well, Netrunner is one of the most depressing failures of a great game I've ever seen.


what is crazy is that it was not really a failure ... see one of the topics where i talked about the Netrunner Death ... but can't remember where ...
+1 if you liberate it
 
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Ludovic schmidt
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waddball wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
But sealed is an advanced form of the game - people don't want a base set that tilts in favor of sealed OVER one that provides a clean, ready-to-enjoy, and learnable game.

Sealed is the way most people first learn the game. Take a starter, open it, read the rules, shuffle, play. You don't even need to tune the deck, as the way the Vitals worked, you were guaranteed to have a playable game right out of the box.

Again, totally unlike most CCGs. The "clean, ready-to-enjoy, learnable" game is the sealed game.


useless to say that i agree .

Once again; i am not against ideas, but our experienced showed that to learn , start and enjoy netrunner at his best, opening a starter was the best thing ...sorry it is not MY idea, but most of people one.
this is a fact .
maybe my english drived you to understand bad what i have in mind .. if it is that, then sorry, i will try to improve my english.

i'll stop comment here about this subject, it was just a quote i forgot to reply ...
for other comments please see ,if you want, the other topic i've created.
 
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Jens Kreutzer
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Quote:
5 as i said there is no advantage /disadvantage by running several copies of a card, it just provides different pgaming experiences and feeling.


Just some thoughts on this. While it is true that certain constructed decks will include multiple copies of a card (and I'm talking up to 10-12 here, or even more, not 3), it can be argued that in a normal situation, it is actually worse in Netrunner to run several copies of ice and icebreaker cards, which are the bread and butter of the game.

Why? Well, different icebreakers are stronger or weaker against different kinds of ice. When I see what kinds of ice the Corp is rezzing, I'm actually better off if I have a choice of 3-4 icebreakers of each type in my deck. Fetch cards like The Short Circuit are standard to include and will get you the icebreaker that fits the best. Likewise, the Corp will react once the Runner starts filling his MU with icebreakers. "Useless" ice will be discarded or overwritten; ice that is expensive to break for that specific combination of breakers will be installed. If I only pack Filters, Skeleton Passkeys will bulldoze my fort. It is key to have a variety of ice cards to have lots of choices. If my deck strategy doesn't specifically call for a certain kind of ice to play a pivotal role, I'll always run just one copy of all ice cards and ice breakers because this is stronger than having multiples. Magic players, digest that.

Some other thing: What one could think about is dividing the cards into two sets, to be published in two boxes. One box would include those cards you will only need one or maybe three copies of in any deck (the Decks or Political Overthrow come to mind), and the other box would include those cards that open up interesting deckbuilding possibilities if you have 15 of them or so (Loan from Chiba, Score!, Restrictive Net Zoning, Newsgroup Taunting ... and Bodyweight Synthetic Blood). In that way, players wouldn't have to buy a fifteenth Arasaka Portable Prototype along with their fifteenth Bodyweight Synthetic Blood. But overall, one copy of each card in the base set is fine with me. It gives you all the pieces to play with, period.
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wormhole surfer wrote:
Please stop to compare Netrunner as a LCG or other CCG
Netrunner is Netrunner it can't be compared to any other game


wormhole surfer wrote:
"in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," this is a quote from Richard Himself it is not from me


This goes back to my earlier comment about how your options and perception of the game might not concur with the general public.

Even though it is a quote from the games creator, that is still a persons opinion and perception. None of my comments are meant to be personal. I hope I don't come across that way. I just want to provide a constructive view point and giving a voice to that view point.

Sealed, to me, makes any deck construction game most like "the cards play you". Having any given card a 1/45 chance of being drawn increases the probability that you aren't going to have the right card for the challenge that your opponent presents. You have expensive ice breakers but no efficient way of getting bits or your ice breakers just don't break the walls the corporation has up and you have no efficient way of drawing or searching your deck.

Even if you include 3 copies of 60 unique corp and 60 runner cards for 360 card print run you'll be producing a similar amount of cards as you originally intended. You can still do sealed, you just a smaller selection of cards to choose from initially until an expansion can be released, but you gain a fuller deck construction experience and all your preconstructed decks are right there, just include a list of cards to be put together for things like first time play and balanced theme decks.

Try to have something for every format right out of the box and not just everything for one format. Multiple copies doesn't hurt sealed as much as having only one of each does hurt constructed.
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Ludovic schmidt
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fredcvbgt wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
Please stop to compare Netrunner as a LCG or other CCG
Netrunner is Netrunner it can't be compared to any other game


wormhole surfer wrote:
"in Netrunner, the cards don't play you, you play the cards," this is a quote from Richard Himself it is not from me


This goes back to my earlier comment about how your options and perception of the game might not concur with the general public.

Even though it is a quote from the games creator, that is still a persons opinion and perception. None of my comments are meant to be personal. I hope I don't come across that way. I just want to provide a constructive view point and giving a voice to that view point.

Sealed, to me, makes any deck construction game most like "the cards play you". Having any given card a 1/45 chance of being drawn increases the probability that you aren't going to have the right card for the challenge that your opponent presents. You have expensive ice breakers but no efficient way of getting bits or your ice breakers just don't break the walls the corporation has up and you have no efficient way of drawing or searching your deck.

Even if you include 3 copies of 60 unique corp and 60 runner cards for 360 card print run you'll be producing a similar amount of cards as you originally intended. You can still do sealed, you just a smaller selection of cards to choose from initially until an expansion can be released, but you gain a fuller deck construction experience and all your preconstructed decks are right there, just include a list of cards to be put together for things like first time play and balanced theme decks.

Try to have something for every format right out of the box and not just everything for one format. Multiple copies doesn't hurt sealed as much as having only one of each does hurt constructed.

please post this in the other thread, just in order to clarify this one, i'll be happy to reply there .
 
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Carsten Bohne
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Hi,

I dabbled a bit in NR back when it was released but never really had anyone to play against.

I really love the artwork so a full set release would be awesome, as I'm miles away from a full set myself.
Haven't read all the (lengthy) posts so please forgive me if the question is redundant: Do you consider re-releasing all the sets including Proteus and Classic or just the base set?

So yep, I'd preorder it once, but not in multiples. The price? LCG base sets cost 20-30 Euros for approx. 300 cards. You do the math from there...

It'd be great if it wasn't via kickstarter, because I'm living in Europe and kickstarter usually has you pay another $40-50 just for shipping and handling.

A bientot,
Carsten
 
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