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Mage Knight Board Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Forced Withdrawal rss

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Steve Hope
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When is this necessary? It definitely seems like it is in PvP battles where neither forces the other to retreat. Other than that, is it needed in Keep/Tower/City assaults where the player fails to kill all enemies? Any other circumstances?
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James Ludlow
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Other than what you've listed, it could happen in a non-PVP scenario where one character accidentally ends his turn on another character's hex. Move on top of other character, explore, oops can't move anymore.

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Steve Hope
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Thanks, James. Am I right about the assaults as well? It was unclear to me whether you effectively "enter the space" when you pay MPs to move/assault it. It seems like you do, and that failing these attacks therefore results in an extra wound.
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Patrick Dolan
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stephenhope wrote:
Thanks, James. Am I right about the assaults as well? It was unclear to me whether you effectively "enter the space" when you pay MPs to move/assault it. It seems like you do, and that failing these attacks therefore results in an extra wound.


Yes, you enter the Keep/Tower/City space when attacking. If you lose, you simply withdraw back to the space you came from. However, if that space is not a safe place, you must use the Forced Withdrawal rules (this is covered in the last paragraph on page 8 of the main rules).

You only take a wound if you wind up using the Forced Withdrawal rules, which require you to take one wound per "non-safe" place en route to a safe place.
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Steve Hope
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Thanks, Pat. So are you saying that you DON'T have to use Forced Withdrawal provisions when you fail an attack? So it's only for the odd circumstance where (through battle or movement) you end up in another player's space?
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Vlaada Chvatil
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Mage Knight Board Game » Forums » Rules
Re: Forced Withdrawal
Yes, you do not use forced withdrawal when your assault fails. You use it:

1) When your tun ends, for whatever reason, on inaccessible space (most usually because you assaulted or attacked another player form a lake using some water walking skill, but you might also try to reveal new tile when standing on a lake hex, and then finding out you cannot enter it because some high cost terrain, enemy or fortified site blocks your way).

2) When you turn ends on space with another player, and PvP is not allowed for whatever reason (either turned off by scenario settings, or because it is your teammate, or because end of day or end of game was already triggered). Again, this can happen if you assault or explore from a space occupied by another player, and fail to move on.

Note: it is not allowed to do any Action on another player's space (challenge enemies, enter adventure site, interact).

Note: It is also not allowed to not attack if PvP is allowed. The other MKs just takes such things personally.

Btw: I can imagine situation where you intentionally end on unsafe space even if you do not have. Mostly because you need that wound card to feed some red skill next turn, or because you need to go back and want to spare move cards...

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James Ludlow
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Pat Dolan wrote:
stephenhope wrote:
Thanks, James. Am I right about the assaults as well? It was unclear to me whether you effectively "enter the space" when you pay MPs to move/assault it. It seems like you do, and that failing these attacks therefore results in an extra wound.


Yes, you enter the Keep/Tower/City space when attacking. If you lose, you simply withdraw back to the space you came from. However, if that space is not a safe place, you must use the Forced Withdrawal rules (this is covered in the last paragraph on page 8 of the main rules).

You only take a wound if you wind up using the Forced Withdrawal rules, which require you to take one wound per "non-safe" place en route to a safe place.

Ah, thank you. I definitely missed this distinction before. For anyone looking for this reference it's under "Combat Outcomes - 3d".

Quote:
If you failed to defeat all the defenders of a fortified site, you have to withdraw back to the space you were attacking from. If it is not a safe place, Forced withdrawal rules apply (see the "End of the Turn" section).


I didn't catch before that the first "withdraw" is not actually "Forced withdrawal". It's just an unfortunate overloading of terms.

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Steve Hope
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Thanks very much to you all, and especially to Vlaada, for helping me.

Vlaada, I just wanted to add on a personal note that your games are little miracles of game design to me. I didn't believe that Sid Meier's Civilization could be emulated in board game form. I am amazed at the way Through The Ages accomplishes it. I also love Galaxy Trucker and Dungeon Lords. I haven't actually played any of your other games but bought Mage Knight only because of your name as designer and was very pleased and impressed with our first game.

Congratulations on another terrific game, and thank you from the bottom of my (gaming) heart!
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Victor Pluntky
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Sorry I have one clarification:

I am an standing on a space adjacent to a rampaging enemy and enter a fortified site that is also adjacent to that enemy, will it attack me while I am making the assault on the fortified site?
If I fail my assault on the fortified site, will it attack me as I am "thrown out" hence making the space an "unsafe space"?
If I started the turn on this space, how would I backtrack to get to a "safe space"?

Vlaada wrote:
Yes, you do not use forced withdrawal when your assault fails. You use it:

1) When your tun ends, for whatever reason, on inaccessible space (most usually because you assaulted or attacked another player form a lake using some water walking skill, but you might also try to reveal new tile when standing on a lake hex, and then finding out you cannot enter it because some high cost terrain, enemy or fortified site blocks your way).

2) When you turn ends on space with another player, and PvP is not allowed for whatever reason (either turned off by scenario settings, or because it is your teammate, or because end of day or end of game was already triggered). Again, this can happen if you assault or explore from a space occupied by another player, and fail to move on.

Note: it is not allowed to do any Action on another player's space (challenge enemies, enter adventure site, interact).

Note: It is also not allowed to not attack if PvP is allowed. The other MKs just takes such things personally.

Btw: I can imagine situation where you intentionally end on unsafe space even if you do not have. Mostly because you need that wound card to feed some red skill next turn, or because you need to go back and want to spare move cards...

 
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Magnesi
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binnet wrote:
Sorry I have one clarification:

I am an standing on a space adjacent to a rampaging enemy and enter a fortified site that is also adjacent to that enemy, will it attack me while I am making the assault on the fortified site?

Combat with enemies, 2b. Page 7. wrote:
An assault is a move, and it can happen that it provokes one or more rampaging enemies. You have to fight both the defenders and these rampaging enemies at once. The rampaging enemies are not fortified, though, and you can conquer the site even if you do not defeat them.
So the answer is yes, they attack you.

binnet wrote:
If I fail my assault on the fortified site, will it attack me as I am "thrown out" hence making the space an "unsafe space"?
If I started the turn on this space, how would I backtrack to get to a "safe space"?
I don't understand these questions. A safe space is:
Movement, 7d. Page 6 wrote:
d. A space is considered to be a safe space if:
• It is accessible under normal conditions (i.e. if no special effects apply).
• It is not an unconquered fortified site, or a keep owned by an opponent.
• It does not contain another hero, except for sites that allow more heroes (portal, conquered city).
A space is not unsafe for being adjacent to rampaging enemies. If it were unsafe (because of one of the points above) you can't start the turn there.

Anyway, you're never attacked when withdrawing or force withdrawing.
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Hi!
I wish to add a question to the matter of withdrawal (forced withdrawal).

I'm trying to play Mines Liberation Solo.
I read the scenario/rules as I need to Move into the hexagon of the Mine and do my fight there with the two enemies.

When I am only able to win over one of these enemies - I guess the Mine hexagon must be considered unsafe and I need to withdraw to the previous hexagon ?

Medhu
 
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Magnesi
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It isn't (AFAIK) clear in the rules if an unconquered mine is safe. But the common agreement is that they are: you can end your movement there without fighting and you don't have to retreat if you lose the fight. So, they are considered as adventure sites.
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