$10.00
Recommend
58 
 Thumb up
 Hide
165 Posts
[1]  Prev «  3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7  Next »  [7] | 

Netrunner» Forums » News

Subject: PLEASE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP ME rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ludovic schmidt
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Darksbane wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
1 that's why it needs to be sold in 1 copie. or even number
2 i is exactly the same whatever the number of cards in a pack ...
3 that's why i talked about store opening the box and sell for single the cards ...


i don' know why people don't want to trust expert players of NR telling that 3 copies means nothing and restrict the game too far ( it is not uninteresting but quite ...)
no limit allow 1000 % more deck than 1/15
stop thinking lcg think how to play netrunner
why waiting for a reprint since all cards are on NRO go there print cards and play, just discover the game by yourself... you'll see we are right


It isn't that people don't trust you. But that doesn't change the fact that it is a hard sell for new players with those types of deckbuilding rules.

Since this is strictly a play format issue why not at least consider adding a new tournament type/play format? You can have your classic where you can have unlimited number of cards, sealed, draft, and a new restricted format of 3x each card. Still sell the base set with only 1 of each and then support both formats in official tournaments.


I have never told that both format won't be supported ...
and 3* copies already exists, a bit different .. it is called 1/15 ... you can add in your deck one copie of a cards for every 15 cards in your deck ...

Seeya

Ludo
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludovic schmidt
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
dboeren wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel about how this is going...

The boardgamers (in which group I count myself) tend to keep saying that the game needs to fit the model that new players want to buy.

The Netrunner veterans tend to keep saying that changing it to a form people will find appealing to buy would ruin the game.

So are we agreed then that the project is doomed to be a total failure for everyone except veteran players who are just looking to round out their existing CCG collections and will toss the rest of the game?

The proxy solution will work from a mechanical point of view, but I still don't think players will take to it. If so, why not just write everything on some slips of normal paper and skip the re-release altogether?


I have taken to heart that sealed play is very good, as I have heard this said many times over many years by many different people. Perhaps we should deemphasize the open deck building and concentrate on precon? Offer sets of pre-constructed decks with a limited number of open card slots to use for customization where you can add/replace existing cards. This is very roughly similar to how Blue Moon works.

Then we would have a natural product to offer - a core set containing 4 Corp and 4 Runner preconstructed decks, plus some number of miscellaneous cards to use for customization. You can have your own copies, or draft them, or whatever you like. Offer an optional gameplay model of open deck building but with modified pre-con as the default for out of the box play. Call the open version "advanced" or whatever if it makes you feel better. Over time, you can release more preconstructed decks with new cards and themes, which give you more base decks to customize but also give open players a greater cardpool.

I think most players will want to do at least some customization if they like the game at all. Telling them they need to buy enough sets to get 20 of each card is unreasonable. Nor is expecting new players to know how many of each card they need, or follow arcane ways of getting the right number of each one if they aren't sold that way to begin with. Some sort of restricted format is necessary that allows people to feel like they have a full collection for a reasonable amount of money while still offering enough room to play with deck designs to keep the game interesting. Figuring out how to offer this is I believe the key to making the reprint successful to gamers at large and not just Netrunner veterans.


just an aswer for the last part of your comments,
buying 20 copies of a 52 expansion packs is not more unreasonable than buying 3 copies of a 346 card set ... meaning that as i said NR doesn't as much cards as other card game to break the metagame and be flexible, sorry if you do'nt understand that , please try netrunner, we'd lovely teach you in any way if you visit netrunneronline.
Frizzler is our online "manager"
your sentence about a full collection for a reasonnable money is true ... i can't go against that ... if people want only buy 3 packs of 52... just go the game will still be over playable
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludovic schmidt
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
darksurtur wrote:
dboeren wrote:
I'm not sure how to feel about how this is going...


I agree that a proxy solution is not a good idea. Aesthetically and mechanically, it goes against everything that we have learned from the last 15 years of board game design in order to appeal to a small contingent of existing players, many of whom already have all the cards they want.

In general, I understand why some players want to keep the "no limit" aspect. But to say that a 3x limit will make the game "uninteresting" seems to clash with the idea that it ALSO thrives in a sealed format.

Likewise, the idea that the game is perfect as it was published all those years ago seems self-contradictory, considering that that A) led to commercial failure, and B) CCGs themselves revolve around the notion of organically and regularly changing and evolving.


1/15 format is just uninteresting comparing to no limit just because it doesn't allowed more archetype .. but everybody is free to buy how many packs they want .. every format has always and need to ( in my mind) stay officialzed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludovic schmidt
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
waddball wrote:
darksurtur wrote:
Likewise, the idea that the game is perfect as it was published all those years ago seems self-contradictory, considering that that A) led to commercial failure, and B) CCGs themselves revolve around the notion of organically and regularly changing and evolving.

This I wholeheartedly agree with. I love NR. I would probably call it my favorite game (out of...I don't know...600ish games played/owned in my life). But I don't think it's perfect. There are some cards that are just too commonly used, some never used, some errata to incorporate, swaths of under-explored functions because expansions stopped. I'd love to see Garfield get the license sorted and partner with a good publisher and make this all happen in an LCG sort of model.

Also, I'm not entirely sold on "no limit". I like it, mostly because it's a unique (unprecedented?) idea. It also permeates the design, in that a few basic functions would have to be spread over many new cards if you put in a 3x restriction (one-shot bit gainers leap to mind, but there are a number of other ways in which the game as is wouldn't function well in constructed with a 3x limit). My response to that is: fine, add new cards, update old ones, and make it work. But I'm not getting the impression from the OP that structural changes, or even much in the way of new/updated cards, is in the works. So that colors my earlier recommendations.


errata need to bve inclueded in the reprint yes, it is vital .

no limit format has also been use din vampire the eternal struggle.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Boeren
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wormhole surfer wrote:
please try netrunner, we'd lovely teach you in any way if you visit netrunneronline.
Frizzler is our online "manager"


I've played before a few times, and I have a box of cards downstairs that I'd be happy to use again if the game revives. I haven't played enough to be any sort of expert deckbuilder or highly skilled player, but I've seen the game. I'd need a refresher on the rules before playing again though.

I went to netrunneronline and followed the links to netrunner.phtn.de describing how to actually play online. I had hoped for a dedicated game client of some sort but that doesn't seem to exist.

MagicWorkstation costs money and I have no idea of the quality of experience it provides.

LackeyCCG I have tried in the past and I know it to be a very poor user interface. I never managed to learn how to use it in a meaningful fashion.

I haven't experience with GCCG but it appears roughly like Lackey, a generic engine with plug-ins for different games but not really designed to play any of them. Again - a learning curve and probably sub-par experience.

If Netrunner had a real client and a single server so the community was not divided in three and therefore 3x the number of players online it would be a great thing. These are sort of related. The reason it has three bad clients is because there is no good client. The existing ones would be dropped instantly if a single quality client and community appeared.

But online play is not the central point of the discussion here, it should probably go in another thread.

I think the main point is twofold (from the point of view of us players):
1. Is this reprint actually going to happen? It's been tried before, but not successfully. Talk is interesting but will it work this time? I don't know, that ball is mostly in your court.

2. If the reprint happens, what form will it take? What changes in packing, formats, rules, errata, etc... will happen to try to make the game successful? That's the main thing we're discussing here I think.


wormhole surfer wrote:
your sentence about a full collection for a reasonnable money is true ... i can't go against that ... if people want only buy 3 packs of 52... just go the game will still be over playable


Maybe I've been unclear. It's not that I (or anyone) just WANTS to buy 3 copies. It's not our choice. To have a good game, you are forced to buy enough copies to provide that good game. If the design is such that you need around 20 copies (as you've sort of been hinting), then that's how many you have to buy. Having less will only let you play a lesser quality game, as well as putting you at a disadvantage when playing against people who bought the "full game". There are diminishing returns to be sure, maybe 10 copies gets you 75% of the way there for 50% of the cost of 20, but gamers like to own the full game and competitive players will not be happy with 75%. The only way players can choose to buy less is if we make an agreement on game format within our local group that nobody will use more than 3 copies or whatever - in effect a house rule. When a game allows deckbuilding, someone else having more copies of cards or more types of cards (owning expansions you do not) is a competitive advantage. This is acceptable to CCG players who are accustomed to it, but generally not to boardgamers who expect everyone to be playing by the same rules so that there is a level field.

However, not everyone likes house rules. Once you are changing the rules of the game, people will disagree on what changes are best. Someone who bought more copies (maybe moved from another group) will demand to be able to use his advantage over everyone else because he "paid for it". Therefore I feel it is in the game's best interest to provide a standardized mode of play with card limits. Then you avoid the argument of whether it should be 3 copies or 4, etc... You just point to the rulebook and say you're playing that format.

I think what you're saying is that limited copies is in fact that lesser quality game I mentioned. Some of us are hoping that the game can be changed to avoid this, whether by packing extra copies of only the cards that NEED many copies and ALSO providing rules enforcing that only these cards can take extra copies, or by cloning some cards to get around the card limit, or by whatever means. We'd rather see a modified Netrunner succeed than an unchanged Netrunner fail and are willing to tweak things towards that goal.

I looked at your profile page and your game collection. It's clear that you're a CCG player and probably not a boardgamer. You know how CCG players think and what they're likely to want. I am not sure if you understand how boardgamers think and what they want out of a game, and I believe that they are the larger portion of your audience. We all want to see this reprint happen and be successful, if we didn't care we wouldn't be reading and posting on these threads.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludovic schmidt
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
dboeren wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
please try netrunner, we'd lovely teach you in any way if you visit netrunneronline.
Frizzler is our online "manager"


I've played before a few times, and I have a box of cards downstairs that I'd be happy to use again if the game revives. I haven't played enough to be any sort of expert deckbuilder or highly skilled player, but I've seen the game. I'd need a refresher on the rules before playing again though.

I went to netrunneronline and followed the links to netrunner.phtn.de describing how to actually play online. I had hoped for a dedicated game client of some sort but that doesn't seem to exist.

MagicWorkstation costs money and I have no idea of the quality of experience it provides.

LackeyCCG I have tried in the past and I know it to be a very poor user interface. I never managed to learn how to use it in a meaningful fashion.

I haven't experience with GCCG but it appears roughly like Lackey, a generic engine with plug-ins for different games but not really designed to play any of them. Again - a learning curve and probably sub-par experience.

If Netrunner had a real client and a single server so the community was not divided in three and therefore 3x the number of players online it would be a great thing. These are sort of related. The reason it has three bad clients is because there is no good client. The existing ones would be dropped instantly if a single quality client and community appeared.

But online play is not the central point of the discussion here, it should probably go in another thread.

I think the main point is twofold (from the point of view of us players):
1. Is this reprint actually going to happen? It's been tried before, but not successfully. Talk is interesting but will it work this time? I don't know, that ball is mostly in your court.

2. If the reprint happens, what form will it take? What changes in packing, formats, rules, errata, etc... will happen to try to make the game successful? That's the main thing we're discussing here I think.


wormhole surfer wrote:
your sentence about a full collection for a reasonnable money is true ... i can't go against that ... if people want only buy 3 packs of 52... just go the game will still be over playable


Maybe I've been unclear. It's not that I (or anyone) just WANTS to buy 3 copies. It's not our choice. To have a good game, you are forced to buy enough copies to provide that good game. If the design is such that you need around 20 copies (as you've sort of been hinting), then that's how many you have to buy. Having less will only let you play a lesser quality game, as well as putting you at a disadvantage when playing against people who bought the "full game". There are diminishing returns to be sure, maybe 10 copies gets you 75% of the way there for 50% of the cost of 20, but gamers like to own the full game and competitive players will not be happy with 75%. The only way players can choose to buy less is if we make an agreement on game format within our local group that nobody will use more than 3 copies or whatever - in effect a house rule. When a game allows deckbuilding, someone else having more copies of cards or more types of cards (owning expansions you do not) is a competitive advantage. This is acceptable to CCG players who are accustomed to it, but generally not to boardgamers who expect everyone to be playing by the same rules so that there is a level field.

However, not everyone likes house rules. Once you are changing the rules of the game, people will disagree on what changes are best. Someone who bought more copies (maybe moved from another group) will demand to be able to use his advantage over everyone else because he "paid for it". Therefore I feel it is in the game's best interest to provide a standardized mode of play with card limits. Then you avoid the argument of whether it should be 3 copies or 4, etc... You just point to the rulebook and say you're playing that format.

I think what you're saying is that limited copies is in fact that lesser quality game I mentioned. Some of us are hoping that the game can be changed to avoid this, whether by packing extra copies of only the cards that NEED many copies and ALSO providing rules enforcing that only these cards can take extra copies, or by cloning some cards to get around the card limit, or by whatever means. We'd rather see a modified Netrunner succeed than an unchanged Netrunner fail and are willing to tweak things towards that goal.

I looked at your profile page and your game collection. It's clear that you're a CCG player and probably not a boardgamer. You know how CCG players think and what they're likely to want. I am not sure if you understand how boardgamers think and what they want out of a game, and I believe that they are the larger portion of your audience. We all want to see this reprint happen and be successful, if we didn't care we wouldn't be reading and posting on these threads.


Hi
1 i don't know if it is going to happen, but i have some people with me ... and most important pieces of the deal are here ... let's see .
2 if that reprint happen, don't know yet in which form, i wanted at the begining a full base set in one copy, i was right to ask about people for that, we can see that there is many different idea for that .

a players who have 20 copies can play with a players who have only 3 or less he just has to take matching decks . As you see, in my collection of NR, i can play every deck of the game, but i play most in sealed and when i play constructed we set up event in a decent time before and can build decks to be as powerful than my future oponent ... who can more can less ...
every format exists, and still exist whatever the form the reprint takes.
it is sur that a " 3 copie" player won't buy 20 copie and it is sure too that a "1 copie player" won't buy 3 ...that's why i keep to think that selling cards in 1 copy is the best.
but don't make me say what i don't, i also want a good game right out the box, with preconstructed decks, ...
what i try to make you understand since the begining is that the game has to be playable right out the box but it shouldn't cost more than any kind of player will spend, the only solution is to release cards in 1 copy.
it only change the number of packs that we will have to buy ...
buying 3 packs of 20 unique cards will be the same than buying one packs of 20 cards in 3 copy ... right no ?
if people want more they buy more, knowing that we can play mostly in 3 format, plus very interesting variant ( big sell out, "standard" form a player here, ...

if the release is designed about what i had in mind the extra packs would be .. an extra bix box ... but let me some times to think of an other solution ...
in a quick view i'd say a double precontructed decks containing basic vital cards, compelting by the time with some expansion packs containing cards to change the basic archetype of the "new starter deck".

you've lost, i'mainly a boardgame player than a ccg one, i dislike most ccg/LCG, the only i play today are NR, vampire, Mythos, LOTR lcg and the spoils. but i have a uge collection of 2 player decks of most ccg that existed , it helps me to anylize deeply difference between them and it helps me to design games.
in addition to that i have around 70 board games, in fact you'll notice that NR are mostly appreciated by Boardgame players than CCG one, and once again , because it is a so special non conventional CCG/Lcg game.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Boeren
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wormhole surfer wrote:
you've lost, i'mainly a boardgame player than a ccg one, i dislike most ccg/LCG, the only i play today are NR, vampire, Mythos, LOTR lcg and the spoils.


I only have your profile to look at, which lists only four games. You rate Magic, Netrunner, and The Spoils (all CCGs) as 10's, and the only boardgame on your list is Heroscape which you rate a 1. So of course that was the obvious conclusion
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludovic schmidt
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
dboeren wrote:
wormhole surfer wrote:
you've lost, i'mainly a boardgame player than a ccg one, i dislike most ccg/LCG, the only i play today are NR, vampire, Mythos, LOTR lcg and the spoils.


I only have your profile to look at, which lists only four games. You rate Magic, Netrunner, and The Spoils (all CCGs) as 10's, and the only boardgame on your list is Heroscape which you rate a 1. So of course that was the obvious conclusion


Me ? Rating Magic at 10? !! Euh no i strongly dislike Magic background and mecanics

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Gilles Oth
Luxembourg
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Potential new player here. Been waiting to try this game for some time now.

First your 4 questions:
1. No foils. Icon to depict the set.
2. 75$ (hard to tell, depends on the content).
3. Yes, at least one box (if you don't manage to make an absolutely unattractive box for me), more depending on the final format.
4. Yes, I can pre-order.

Now a few personal opinions:
If this is supposed to be a reboot of the franchise, I'd say make a clean break and design the box as if there were no already existing cards. Netrunner 2.0, the reboot.

New layout, maybe new art, adjust card effects/costs where needed to balance the card.
Add some tokens to represent bits and different card states.
A player-mat is in my opinion not needed. Maybe at a later stage.
Personal pet peeve of mine: change the colour of the Corporation to blue/dark-blue. Looks more business-like (yeah, yeah, I know: blasphemy ).

As for the unlimited format, I have to say that it sounds interesting, but it turns this game again into a money pit like a normal CCG, which again scares away potential players.
It also creates an unbalanced environment where those who are able (and willing) to buy more boxes have an advantage over those who don't. I thought the game is about player skill, not about the amount of money one spends.
I suppose that so far the unlimited format has been the "official" tournament format (for example during the world championships)?

I can see the argument that the unlimited format has more potential deck-types which leads to more variety.
The question I'm asking myself is, if it would be possible to impose a limit that still gives you enough deck-building flexibility, like max. 9-12 copies?

As for the idea to reprint the base set:
Don't try to reprint all the cards at once. That will probably not be possible from a financial point of view.
Split it in two or three, maybe even leave some cards out all together.
The less cards there are at the beginning, the easier it is for new players to learn the game.

As for the number of copies included in the box, I'd go with either 1 (probably not so good if you want to include viable pre-fixed decks) or 3 (this will allow new players to immediately construct 1/15 decks).
Having to buy only one box to get 3 copies of each card, instead of buying 3 boxes with 1 copie of each card, has, as far as I can tell, a better marketing potential.
("You only need to buy one box and can build decks right away." vs. "You need to buy 1 or 2 more boxes to build new decks.")

One last suggestion:
Once you've gathered the different potential options for the box, it might be more effective to create some sort of poll to see which options the players would prefer (and make sure to add the colour question ).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ludovic schmidt
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Redamikanas wrote:
Potential new player here. Been waiting to try this game for some time now.

First your 4 questions:
1. No foils. Icon to depict the set.
2. 75$ (hard to tell, depends on the content).
3. Yes, at least one box (if you don't manage to make an absolutely unattractive box for me), more depending on the final format.
4. Yes, I can pre-order.

Now a few personal opinions:
If this is supposed to be a reboot of the franchise, I'd say make a clean break and design the box as if there were no already existing cards. Netrunner 2.0, the reboot.

New layout, maybe new art, adjust card effects/costs where needed to balance the card.
Add some tokens to represent bits and different card states.
A player-mat is in my opinion not needed. Maybe at a later stage.
Personal pet peeve of mine: change the colour of the Corporation to blue/dark-blue. Looks more business-like (yeah, yeah, I know: blasphemy ).

As for the unlimited format, I have to say that it sounds interesting, but it turns this game again into a money pit like a normal CCG, which again scares away potential players.
It also creates an unbalanced environment where those who are able (and willing) to buy more boxes have an advantage over those who don't. I thought the game is about player skill, not about the amount of money one spends.
I suppose that so far the unlimited format has been the "official" tournament format (for example during the world championships)?

I can see the argument that the unlimited format has more potential deck-types which leads to more variety.
The question I'm asking myself is, if it would be possible to impose a limit that still gives you enough deck-building flexibility, like max. 9-12 copies?

As for the idea to reprint the base set:
Don't try to reprint all the cards at once. That will probably not be possible from a financial point of view.
Split it in two or three, maybe even leave some cards out all together.
The less cards there are at the beginning, the easier it is for new players to learn the game.

As for the number of copies included in the box, I'd go with either 1 (probably not so good if you want to include viable pre-fixed decks) or 3 (this will allow new players to immediately construct 1/15 decks).
Having to buy only one box to get 3 copies of each card, instead of buying 3 boxes with 1 copie of each card, has, as far as I can tell, a better marketing potential.
("You only need to buy one box and can build decks right away." vs. "You need to buy 1 or 2 more boxes to build new decks.")

One last suggestion:
Once you've gathered the different potential options for the box, it might be more effective to create some sort of poll to see which options the players would prefer (and make sure to add the colour question ).


As always, ...
about disadvantage about Nolimit and 1/15 it is a false thing, it is not the same environment, the same format ... No limit Players can't play against 1/15 one !but who can more can the less ...

in fact few cards are needed above 12 ... some of them 18 copies or 20 but it represents i don't really know about 30 cards on 580 ...

i think there is no poll needed because the true facts i noticed are that :

we can't spend a lot of money in buying the box
we can't force people wanted only one copy of cards to buy 3 and we can't force people who only want 3 to buy 12 or 20 ... the only way to do that is to sell cards in 1 copy ...

but all comments here make me realized that the best things would be to divided the entire Netrunner as into many very small expansion ( please see my post in the other thread where i bagan to suggest a preconstructed deck and way to improve it)
THE thing i can understand is gathering all cards in a box with only 1 copy of a card will penalize players who only want for exemple 10% of this box in several copie .The thing to avoid that is just to divide the set into very small parts, in that way maybe some parts will be useless for some and usefull for others and since this packs wil contains very few cards even if a players buy it for 2 or 3 cards inside ( on maybe a total of 10 or 15 cards ) he want be as much penalized as buying 500 cards just for 10 usable ...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
dan mce
msg tools
mbmbmb
Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?


I have played Netrunner lots, and am a frustrated gamer, as i wish i had the whole set to play with. your idea would solve my problem.

1)new icon would make sense. foils/alternate art are cool. I don't agree that the trading of rare/foils is bad for a game. however, rarity is bad for those who want to play with every card and experience all the game has to offer. I get the impression that the concensus on BGG is that people would always rather have a 'set' of cards, complete in it's own right. however i am from a ccg background, and find that LCG's try to balance every card, and therefore a card that would have been a staple 'common' card in a ccg becomes unnecessary in an lcg. this may be to the detriment of the netrunner sets.

2) i couldn't afford more than £60. but if you could split it up into different, smaller boxes at £30-£40 i would probably buy 3 over the course of a year.

3)i would buy it (die hard fan).

4) if you Kickstarter it i will pledge money.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
WPC C
Netherlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've still got my cards from the '90s. Got most of the cards, some rares are missing. What I'd like:

- reprint is okay, as long as there are a few new cards added to the lot. The more, the better.
- new art only for new cards.
- NO FOILS!
- additional icons are ok
- Do not change the background or backside of the cards.
- moderate pricing.

I'd preorder a first set, just to see how it's looking. Me buying into more sets will largely depend on the fraction of new cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Rossney
United States
San Francisco
California [CA]
flag msg tools
Well, I don't know enough about Netrunner as it's played today to know how viable this approach is, but this is how I'd try to republish it:

First, settle on some number of decks that play well against each other - four or five per side. Playtest each possible pair of decks to make sure that the games are fun.

Next, create a pool of cards that contain enough of the right cards that you can construct each of the decks. If you want to get really crazy, you can use a tiny bit of real estate on the face of each card to indicate which deck(s) it belongs to, e.g. something like the expansion symbol that Race for the Galaxy cards use. That'd be nice for not alienating collectors, assuming that there actually are collectors you don't want to alienate.

Publish the boxed set so that it contains this pool of cards, the rules, the deck lists, glass beads for bits, and any additional cards you can afford to throw in.

New players get the experience of playing with good, tuned decks, they don't have to figure out how to build decks before they play, and if the pool of cards is enough to make five different good decks it can also probably make more. You don't need to worry about supplying enough cards to make all kinds of decks possible - 25 possible corp/runner matchups is more than enough fun for one reasonably-priced box.

I'd buy this in a heartbeat.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bernd Altmann
Germany
Augsburg
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Toyama wrote:
- Do not change the background or backside of the cards.

Everything is fine if WotC is doing the new edition. But I'm wondering what will happen if another company is reprinting it. Will WotC allow the use of the Deckmaster trademark on the card backs? They still use it for Magic and I could imagine that they don't want another product (not by them) to use it.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Student Eternal
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
This would be amazing, I only ever played with a partial hand me down set and would love to be able to get an actual set!

I agree with Tilou below:

1. Little icon. No foils. Same art would be great. The box could include some special dice and/or tokens and/or a cardboard to keep track of the credits/viruses...
2. 50-60 $.
3. Yes! Quantity depends on the price. I'd first go with one box probably.
4. I would preorder the box before release.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Baldwin
United States
Springfield
Ohio
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
As this is so hypothetical, I doubt it happens. However, I would like to see alternate art to what WOTC made. As I already own some cards, I'd like something new and fresh.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Huw Morris
United Kingdom
Oxford
Oxfordshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
I was a very heavy player back in the 90s, so I'm extremely excited by the possibility of a reprint. I have a lot of cards, and at the time was pretty good at the game.

That said, I have my concerns as to how you're going about this. It appears that you're trying to revive NR as it was. Well that game failed for a variety of reasons. If you want this to succeed then it has to be a new game which takes into account the mistakes of the original.

You're thinking too much like a CCG player. This product has to appeal to boardgamers. I can't rely on any of my gaming group also having bought this product in order to play it. We can't open a box and be confronted with 400 cards. That means pre-constructed decks, with some ability to change, but not completely gut them.

I disagree entirely about your assertion that unlimited number of cards in a deck is important to deckbuilding. Constructed NR was degenerate, and the lack of a card limit was part of that. Does it really use great imagination to include 10 copies of Bodyweight Synthetic Blood? I think not. If you read Mark Rosewater's column on the Wizards' site, he is quite clear that limiting options leads to a better experience, not a worse one. I would *strongly* urge a limit of 3 in a deck, and I think any stand-alone product should therefore include 3 cards of each. I expect to get 10 action cards or 12 victory point cards in a Dominion expansion!

There are some cards which do benefit from having more than 3 in a deck. So (for that *very* limited subset) print new cards which have a similar effect. This also gives an incentive for the likes of me to buy this product, instread of just re-using my old cards.

Forget about trying to reprint the entire set, at least with this first run. Concentrate on a fun out-of-the-box experience. Other cards can be added with later expansions. Coupled to this, one thing that really hurt NR was the fact that it was not a multiplayer game. I'd be far more likely to get this out at my boardgaming night if it worked as a 4-player game as well a 2-player game. I don't know if this is possible, but it should be investigated.

There were mistakes in the original card set. Some cards were ludicrously overpowered. Some were underpowered. You have the chance to fix that. Some cards should never be reprinted. Others should be printed in a different form with a new name. The designers of NR had no idea how to balance the game properly at the time, otherwise "Psycho Tycho" would never have existed. We now have the benefit of experience. It's no different from Magic, where cards like the Moxes and Black Lotus will never again be printed.

I wish you luck in this endeavour. The most important thing is that is has to work as a stand-alone game, without blindly following the original rules and cards.
20 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian McCarthy
United States
Milwaukee
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm a casual follower of this thread and I have to say that I agree completely with Huw Morris.

Hopefully to add a bit to that, I love Garfield's designs, but Netrunner is too opaque for a novice to come into the field and just construct a decent, playable deck. I know this because I have tried to learn this game from the rules and it's daunting. Also, you have to learn two different sets of rules, one for each side. There is crossover, but understanding what your opponent is doing is still a hurdle, especially if you are learning alone, just by reading the rules.

You're already competing with the huge advantages in money and market share that Magic has. My experience is that it's incredibly difficult to get Magic players to play any other 2 player card game, especially if it's one that requires investment in time, which is already deeply sunk in Magic. And board gamers prefer games with more players. I already have half a dozen magnificent 2 player games that don't get played, simply because no one wants to just pair up for 2 player games when they could get 4 or more players together for a larger game.

I believe a big part of the reason behind Netrunner's lack of financial success was the large barrier to just getting started. Sure, you could buy starter decks, but learning the rules cold was a bear.

If you're looking to expand the player base, you're going to want to impose limits on the number of cards players are required to buy and provide fun, competitive decklists that you can build from the cards in the box. I would suggest going a step further and including a rigged demo consisting of a small number of cards per player and instructions for the drawing and playing those cards, with an aim to make a step-by-step tutorial for playing the game.

Take all this with a grain of salt, as I'm no expert with the game, just a potential player who researched the game and did not find the game worth the hassle of learning, teaching and convincing people to play.

I hope this all works out for the best.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Max Fightmaster
United Kingdom
London
London
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
+1 to Robert Rossney and Huw Morris.



Can't put it any better than that really. Bulk printing everything at once, while great for old-skool CCG'ers looking to complete collections, isn't a great option for new players.

Also, all new CCGs come with a few design bloopers in their first set. Take the opportunity to iron those out now, don't just perpetuate them for the sake of tradition.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Patrick McNamara
United States
Jupiter
Florida
flag msg tools
I'm not Beethoven...
badge
Bird of paradise fly in white sky, blues for Allah en'sh'allah; Let's see with our heart, these things our eyes have seen; And know the truth must still lie somewhere in between
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
1 create a little icons on cards showing that is a "memorial" set and/or
make all the cards ( or the old rares one) FOILS and/or
make all the cards or some of them ( rares? ) with some alternative art

or maybe a good mix of this .. what do you think ? could it be attractive ? if the production cost are expansive for a such thing will you buy it even if the cards are exactly the same ? ( i need to have beginner and expert advise ...)

2what could be the ideal price for a such box ?
i though about 40 to 100 $ i know it is a huge gap but production costs will be balanced with all the things i suggests upper and also with quantity printed .

3 will you buy it ? ( expert and / or beginner)

4 will you buy it only when released or are you able to support NR and help us to preorder the box before the released ?



In response to your original questions on NR online:

1. No foils necessary. Original artwork please.
2. I would have no problem with $100 depending on the quantity of card offered.
3. I would buy this in a heartbeat.
4. I would support and/or preorder if needed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
flag msg tools
Grift wrote:
+1 to Robert Rossney and Huw Morris.



Can't put it any better than that really. Bulk printing everything at once, while great for old-skool CCG'ers looking to complete collections, isn't a great option for new players.

Also, all new CCGs come with a few design bloopers in their first set. Take the opportunity to iron those out now, don't just perpetuate them for the sake of tradition.


As an older player with intermediate level of experience (collector during the original print run but only started seriously playing a couple years ago during Runner's Net's heyday) I think a switch to the LCG format is going to be the best route if there's any hope for the game to still be in print for more than a year. As such the game is going to need to be re-balanced and that's a fine reason to have Richard Garfield and a QA team pick through the game and make tweaks.

The rules will need to be clarified and cleaned up in order to attract new players and, more importantly, retain them. We cannot adhere to the "old ways" and "traditions" for this. If everything was perfectly fine with the old game, this thread wouldn't exist. Plain and simple.

We won't have Netrunner back ever, but what we can have is a Netrunner 2.0 which repurposes the old game for a new generation of players, and hopefully gets some wider exposure for one of Dr. Garfield's best board game designs (yes, he considered this a board game not a CCG).

To be honest, while I appreciate all the cheerleading done by Wormhole a lot of the real decisions about the release are going to be made by the designer and the eventual publisher if this ever gets approved.

EDIT: BTW Wormhole, I left further feedback on NRO.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Flying Arrow
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm trying to think of what would get me to buy this game and what would prevent me from buying this game. I should be a prime target as a potential customer... I like the play format, the theme, but I've never tried it.

Price point would be a big factor for me. So no new art and no foils. Keep the price down - under $50 for the starter set. The price should be comparable to a boardgame. I loved the suggestion of multiple pre-built decks for each side. 5 per side would be great. 3 per side would suffice if the cost is too high. An even better idea - multiple deck "cores", where the core is about a half-deck's worth of related cards, and then a play format where you do a Campaign Manager 2008-style "draft" to complete the deck from a common pool of cards. The common pool could allow more "decks" in the starter and also introduce a bit of deckbuilding to the game, even if using pre-built starters.

The LCG format is better than a CCG in terms of the cost, but it's still costly if the releases are constant. I've watched, but the releases tend to come out more often than I'd want to buy them. I know I'm probably in the minority, but I'd prefer a slower release schedule. A Race for the Galxay model (once per year) rather than the standard LCG format (multiple per year).

I know some people don't like conference "exclusives", but I don't mind them so much. As a semi-completionist I simply ignore promos. But promos could be a way to bring in all the rest of the original cards. Anyway, that's enough of my rambling.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark T
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I currently play the LCGs (AGoT, CoC, LotR) and have been interested in NR for awhile. Like the idea either of the complete set or of multiple starter decks. Single copies fine if that is the way the game plays well (have had fun with highlander CoC).

1. Icon. No foils.
2. $40-60
3. One to start.
4. Unlikely.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Talarius Dunedain
United States
Unspecified
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Hellboy!
mbmbmbmbmb
Netrunner » Forums » News
Re: PLEASE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP ME
I have a small Netrunner collection, have only played it a few times, but always enjoyed it and wanted to play more.

Foils would drive up the cost, so not interested in those, as this is a limited print run. Original artwork, if available. $40-60 seems reasonable for something like this. I would certainly buy a copy, no doubt about it and would put in a pre-order if all the legalities were resolved beforehand.

As MECCG is one of my top 3 games of all time, I will be rooting for you to succeed in this endeavor. Good luck and thanks for your efforts!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jared Kelsey
United States
Selma
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I will buy it and love it! Yes I will pre-order!
An added icon would be ok, but no foils.
Fixed set releases would also be a good idea.
I think $50-$60 would be a good price range.

I still have my thousands of Netrunner cards, several decks still assembled and I still have some sealed product! Several sealed starters and a few sealed Proteus packs!

Anyone running a Netrunner tournament?
I'll contribute some sealed product as prizes!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
[1]  Prev «  3 , 4 , 5 , 6 , 7  Next »  [7] | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.