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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Withering Workout rss

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Hunter Shelburne
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Making this a full thread:

With the Withering Workout team upgrade for Chaos, do you get to sup in each Ejected Player you have during the scoreboard phase, or is it just 1. I played it as just 1 tonight since that was the way I interpreted the wording, but I've seen it explained both ways on the forums after scanning through. It doesn't have an exhaust condition but it specifically says 1 on the card, which I found odd. Thanks for the assistance.
 
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brian
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Weapon wrote:
Making this a full thread:

With the Withering Workout team upgrade for Chaos, do you get to sup in each Ejected Player you have during the scoreboard phase, or is it just 1. I played it as just 1 tonight since that was the way I interpreted the wording, but I've seen it explained both ways on the forums after scanning through. It doesn't have an exhaust condition but it specifically says 1 on the card, which I found odd. Thanks for the assistance.

Each time it happens.
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Hunter Shelburne
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Weapon wrote:
Making this a full thread:

With the Withering Workout team upgrade for Chaos, do you get to sup in each Ejected Player you have during the scoreboard phase, or is it just 1. I played it as just 1 tonight since that was the way I interpreted the wording, but I've seen it explained both ways on the forums after scanning through. It doesn't have an exhaust condition but it specifically says 1 on the card, which I found odd. Thanks for the assistance.

Each time it happens.


I've seen your posts previously mentioning a FAQ, is that out yet or still on its way? Thanks by the way.
 
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brian
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On its way.
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CJ
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
Each time it happens.


I stand corrected.
 
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Henry Coleman
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We have always played once. I've never played as Chaos so that is how it has been read to me by those that have. I'd need to see the actual text of the card to be sure though.

I would have thought it would be way too strong to be used every time.
 
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brian
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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game » Forums » Rules
Re: Withering Workout
boxjuggler wrote:
We have always played once. I've never played as Chaos so that is how it has been read to me by those that have. I'd need to see the actual text of the card to be sure though.

I would have thought it would be way too strong to be used every time.


Withering Workout

Scoreboard Phase: After 1 of your players is ejected, draw 1 card from your Team deck. Place the drawn player standing at the matchup where your player was ejected. (The drawn player cannot use his skills.)
 
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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It triggers every time one of your players is ejected. The text makes it clearly a mandatory trigger and no restrictions are given to how many time it should trigger.

I don`t understand why people think this is some overpowered upgrade. The Skaven`s cheating upgrade (where they get to look at cheating tokens) is much better. This is mostly useful for not losing a participation payout when your lone player gets ejected (which is good for Chaos, as it means you can participate in more highlights, as you`re usually wary of losing your lone players). The rest of the time, most of the time your 2+ SP player gets replaced by a lineman and the +1 SP is irrelevant to who wins the match.
 
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Hunter Shelburne
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XDarkAngelX wrote:
It triggers every time one of your players is ejected. The text makes it clearly a mandatory trigger and no restrictions are given to how many time it should trigger.

I don`t understand why people think this is some overpowered upgrade. The Skaven`s cheating upgrade (where they get to look at cheating tokens) is much better. This is mostly useful for not losing a participation payout when your lone player gets ejected (which is good for Chaos, as it means you can participate in more highlights, as you`re usually wary of losing your lone players). The rest of the time, most of the time your 2+ SP player gets replaced by a lineman and the +1 SP is irrelevant to who wins the match.



I don't really consider any of these overpowered, I just ask the questions as I get them, I just like being sure that I'm playing correctly.
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Brad K
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This is an easy one. Just follow the rules in the rulebook p.9...

Scoreboard Phase
1. Resolve Matchups
a. Reveal Cheating Tokens (this is where you eject players)
b. Resolve Scoreboard Phase Abilities (this is where you use Withering Workout)

Withering Workout doesn't "activate" when a player is ejected, it is resolved once, like all other scoreboard phase abilities during part b when resolving match-ups.. Reading the card gives you a condition and a result.

Condition: After 1 of your players is ejected (during 1.a.)
Result: Replace them with 1 standing player

Verdict: Withering Workout works once per match-up. Usually this will be 2-3 times depending on how many match-ups you are participating in.
 
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Hunter Shelburne
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BarmyBrad wrote:
This is an easy one. Just follow the rules in the rulebook p.9...

Scoreboard Phase
1. Resolve Matchups
a. Reveal Cheating Tokens (this is where you eject players)
b. Resolve Scoreboard Phase Abilities (this is where you use Withering Workout)

Withering Workout doesn't "activate" when a player is ejected, it is resolved once, like all other scoreboard phase abilities during part b when resolving match-ups.. Reading the card gives you a condition and a result.

Condition: After 1 of your players is ejected (during 1.a.)
Result: Replace them with 1 standing player

Verdict: Withering Workout works once per match-up. Usually this will be 2-3 times depending on how many match-ups you are participating in.


This makes sense, but, no offense, I wouldn't consider it "an easy one" if multiple people in multiple threads are mixing up the same issues. Probably not how you intended it, but it sounded condescending.
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Brad K
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Simply meant that it's easy to resolve when you step back and take a look at what the card actually is, The wording is definitely confusing, and it's easy to treat the card like a reaction ability (due to the use of the word "After") instead of a scoreboard action, in which case it would work on every player ejected as it is never exhausted. It doesn't need to be exhausted because it is only resolved once every 1.b Resolve Scoreboard Phase Abilities phase, just like all the other scoreboard abilities.

It's further confusing because of the explicit calling out of 1 player. I think the choice to be explicit about 1 player was an attempt to show it only works once (instead of on every player ejected) as it is only resolved once. The result was explicit to show you only get to put 1 player up, not one for every ejection token on your player. Since the card is resolved for every match-up you participate in, the 1 player will count every 1b Scoreboard Phase AFTER a player is ejected in the previous 1a Scoreboard Phase.

The main advantage of this card, as pointed out by someone else, is that you can't be caught non-present on a match-up just because your only player there fouled out turning the whole match over to your opponent and taking away your participation bonus. That adds a lot of stability and a bit more flexibility to a team where many of the players HAVE to draw foul tokens.
 
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brian
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I am sorry, but it doesn't work this way. There is no limit to the number of times it can be used. Either at multiple matchups or multiple times at a single matchup. It does not say "once per matchup" and does not exhaust.
 
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Brad K
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I guess we'll know when the official FAQ is out. By that same logic I could say that it doesn't say "for every" so it doesn't work for every ejected player in a match-up. Focus on what it says, not what it doesn't say.

I'd say play it however you like it, this game is great for all sorts of crazy house rules.
 
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brian
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BarmyBrad wrote:
I guess we'll know when the official FAQ is out. By that same logic I could say that it doesn't say "for every" so it doesn't work for every ejected player in a match-up. Focus on what it says, not what it doesn't say.

I'd say play it however you like it, this game is great for all sorts of crazy house rules.

Well "For every" doesn't work either because it would imply that if you had 3 guys ejected, each would get ejected and replaced with 3. Not always easy to write something concise that can be interpreted only one way.

The point is that it says "when 1 player" so the trigger is when a player gets ejected, not anything else. This can occur multiple times. So your 1a can happen multiple times.

If the ruling changes in the FAQ, it will be because they are changing the language.
 
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Brad K
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But it's not a trigger and that's where it's easy to make a mistake. If it was a trigger, you'd replace each player as they were ejected and the card would be a reaction ability, but that's not what you do. First you flip all the foul tokens, and eject all the players that need to be ejected. So they're all sitting in your discard pile. You can't even tell how many were flipped cause they're in a nice stack. Then you take turns playing your Scoreboard Actions. In a 4 player game at a tournament match-up near the end where there could be a lot of abilities to play before yours, you may even forget how many players got ejected if you're last, but it doesn't matter. The Scoreboard Action for Withering Workout is "After 1 of your players is ejected...". You play that action, which says after 1 of your players is ejected, which means if you have a player sitting in your discard pile that fouled out, you get to put one back standing up. That's the action. The action is to put 1 back up, not to put one up for each one ejected. In fact, if you wanted to be a syntax nazi, you could say that the ability ONLY works if 1 player fouls out but I think that violates the intent. (If 2 fouled out the condition of the card wouldn't be met, it does say "After 1...")

You don't exhaust scoreboard actions cause they take place once during the scoreboard phase of every match-up. It's confusing cause the rulebook doesn't go into further detail on the "Resolve Scoreboard Action Phase" like it does with most the other sub-phases, but I'm pretty sure I'm correct.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, that actually COULD be the intent. If so it would pretty explicitly be designed to provide the advantage I listed in my previous post.
 
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brian
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Yeah, it IS a trigger that takes effect during the scoreboard phase. The fact that it says "after" means as soon as a player is ejected, replace him. That simple.

This is how it worked in playtesting, this is how it has come out. I am fairly certain this is how the FAQ is going to word unless they changed it from the last time I have seen it.

So we will just have to agree to disagree until the FAQ comes out.
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