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Battlestar Galactica: Exodus Expansion» Forums » Variants

Subject: Building a seventh skill card deck rss

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bob dole
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Looking this over, I have to agree that this just feels like something extra that I would draw when I'm in the brig, or staying in the same location in order to do something. And while the most common card makes faith positive it's still good to draw as a Cylon.
 
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Matt Vollick
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I think I prefer Faith to not have separate crisis cards at least for now. If the mechanics work and it's a fun deck then I say go ahead and spend the time to make some peripheral crises and cards.
 
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David Turczi
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Vollick1979 wrote:
I think I prefer Faith to not have separate crisis cards at least for now. If the mechanics work and it's a fun deck then I say go ahead and spend the time to make some peripheral crises and cards.


This is what I convinced myself of
 
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David Turczi
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I've recolored it to Grey.

I've renamed Will of God, and reduced it to 1 new card.

I've reduced the resource Penalty on Leap of Faith

I've applied Ripshawd's ideas.

Is it getting better?
 
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Matt Vollick
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Generally speaking giving out more skill cards will help humanity, so I think these changes will help humanity.

The faith card that allows humans to draw faith by increasing the difficulty by 3 could be used on admin checks that they don't plan on passing. It's not that big of deal because it is a waste of an action otherwise but it does seem exploitable.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I dunno. I don't really think this adds much that is meaningful to the game. It doesn't seem like it would hurt anything, but it doesn't really seem like it would make the game better with it in there.
 
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TDaver wrote:
I've applied Ripshawd's ideas.

Is it getting better?

Not all of them! I still think Guide Them to Their Destiny should not have separate Human and Cylon powers (as the current Human power can be beneficial to both sides). What if it was:

Guide them to Their Destiny - Play before a Skill Check, to examine the top two cards of the Destiny deck before adding them to the Skill Check.
Value: 1-3 (1,1,1)

This way, whomever plays the card gets to look, but no one else. It's an idea... maybe not a fantastic one... just throwing it out there.


Also, I think Leap of Faith is unnecessarily wordy and overly powerful. The first half is sufficiently powerful: it allows the humans to add 1 resource at the start of a jump cycle, while also allowing the Cylons to prolong a jump cycle. Both sides benefit from the same text. I think messing with negative resources is too impactful... as a Cylon, I'd always hit Fuel.


I didn't review A Vengeful God earlier because it was added after my post, but I don't find that card to be particularly exciting. As a Human, I'd immediately use it as discard fodder. As a Cylon, I'd always use it to spike. It boils down to just a guaranteed -4 card. Replace them with more Guide Them to Their Destiny cards, IMHO.


Lastly, a thought about Higher Power. I'd make it a Reckless card that is played before the skill check and turns Faith cards positive. As it stands now, the Humans rarely make skill checks Reckless and this would give more of an incentive for that to happen (and for the associated Treachery cards to trigger).
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Atomic Robo
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TDaver wrote:
I've recolored it to Grey.

I've renamed Will of God, and reduced it to 1 new card.

I've reduced the resource Penalty on Leap of Faith

I've applied Ripshawd's ideas.

Is it getting better?

Yes. I'm doing other things today, so sorry if I haven't been able to hop in and comment on everything. I'm still not super pleased with your 6 card. Having wordings that allow humans or Cylons to use the cards and simply allowing the cards to be used by both would be best.

And anything that adds skill cards that are negative for 90% of the skill checks in the game is not Pro-Human. I would love to see crisis cards for both sides of the equation, (Positive and Negative consequences, perhaps introduce more cards with consequence card mechanics as well?)

So, am I the only one pondering Elosha right now?
2 Politics/Faith
1 Politics
2 Leadership
On Elosha's turn Faith is always considered positive in skill checks.
Once per game, Elosha messes with the Destiny Deck in a big way.
 
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Atomic Robo
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Am I also the only one that thinks that the card that might make Faith positive if the humans get lucky and the check isn't reckless should be the card called "Leap of Faith?"

Perhaps your six card (which I still am not too keen on) should be called Crucible, or something?

(And Ripshard is still smart, and a ninja when I post.)
 
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David Turczi
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I like the GttD idea, will do this.

I'll think a bit more on the Leap of Faith, right now you're version has a slight lead (because of mine's wordiness).

I don't agree with making Higher Power a reckless interrupt. Humans would never draw Faith, if they have to make a skill check reckless to use them. It would be a slightly less painful Treachery.

Okay, let's lose the Vengenful God. Here's a new idea.

Blind Faith: Play before a adding cards to a reckless skill check to make Faith cards count positive. Lose one morale if the crisis doesn't passes.

Is it too contrieved?
Should cylons be allowed to use this? Or how to make it dual?
 
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Atomic Robo
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TDaver wrote:
Blind Faith: Play before a adding cards to a reckless skill check to make Faith cards count positive. Lose one morale if the crisis doesn't passes.

It's too darn wordy.
Blind Faith
Skill Check:
Faith cards are positive for this skill check. If this skill check fails by 4 or more, lose 1 morale.
 
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David Turczi
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LL6869 wrote:
TDaver wrote:
Blind Faith: Play before a adding cards to a reckless skill check to make Faith cards count positive. Lose one morale if the crisis doesn't passes.

It's too darn wordy.
Blind Faith
Skill Check:
Faith cards are positive for this skill check. If this skill check fails by 4 or more, lose 1 morale.


Bought.
The 4 or more thing is scrapped, since this is a +4 in EVERY SKILL CHECK. (so pretty crappy spike)

Before you ask: if an Iron Will avoids a fail, Blind Faith doesn't trigger. However if it is 0 or below (and a fail) then BOTH of them trigger. Partials also don't trigger Blind Faith.
 
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How many Blind Faith cards are there? Just 3? I don't know if we should give the Cylons even more Iron Will cards to throw at Tanked checks...

I'm not sold on this card. What about:

Blind Faith
Skill Check:
Discard all other Faith skill cards from this Skill Check.

It's a twist on Red Tape. Alternatively, keep the card you have, but make the negative deal out Treachery cards instead. I think having another Morale shot is very detrimental to the balance of the overall game, especially as you are not adding any Morale boosters.
 
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David Turczi
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Damn, you're smart.
I just go with what sounds cool.

Also, what do you mean with Treachery?
 
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David Turczi
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How about
Quote:
Faith counts as positive for this skill check. If it fails, every human must discard a skill card.
 
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TDaver wrote:
Faith counts as positive for this skill check. If it fails, every human must discard a skill card.

That'd work! My idea was:

All faith cards in this skill check count as positive strength. If this skill check fails, each player draws a Treachery card.

(Note the wording now matches Scientific Research... the wording for Higher Power should also change to reflect this.) Either way looks good to me.


One final note that I've been thinking about. As a human player, I don't know if I'd contribute faith cards unless I also had a card in my hand to make them positive. Per the secrecy rules, you wouldn't be allowed to tell other players that you're playing a card to make faith positive (since you're adding it secretly into the skill check). I don't know how much faith will get played into skill checks with this. At least with cards like Scientific Research and At All Cost, you know before hand that the cards are going to be positive. This was where my argument to make Higher Power an interrupt (and possibly a Reckless card).
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David Turczi
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Ripshawd wrote:
Per the secrecy rules, you wouldn't be allowed to tell other players that you're playing a card to make faith positive (since you're adding it secretly into the skill check). I don't know how much faith will get played into skill checks with this. At least with cards like Scientific Research and At All Cost, you know before hand that the cards are going to be positive. This was where my argument to make Higher Power an interrupt (and possibly a Reckless card).


And that's EXACTLY why I didn't make them interrupts.
It's all about Faith you know...

So is "I think we can do this with Faith" ok per the secrecy rules?
you obviously can't say "I'm making Faith positive", but where is the line?
 
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TDaver wrote:
And that's EXACTLY why I didn't make them interrupts.
It's all about Faith you know...

Fair enough. That makes sense.

From a purely design standpoint, there is something not so elegant about two of your cards having essentially the same effect: Making faith cards positive. That, right now, is my only qualm about Blind Faith. But, I don't have any suggestions to change it either.


EDIT: As for the secrecy component, I know people ask 'Should we make Blue/Treachery positive?', but that's with knowledge before a Skill Check. I'm not certain on how I'd rule this...
 
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David Turczi
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Well, how would you rule on a "should we try for an Iron WIll?"

It's the same thing.
 
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TDaver wrote:
Well, how would you rule on a "should we try for an Iron WIll?"

It's the same thing.


I'd rule that this is overstepping the Secrecy rules. But, I guess something as blatant as "I'm going to throw in a bit of extra security, but we don't want to tank this one now!" would be okay. It's such a fine line, especially with PBF games.
 
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Atomic Robo
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Battlestar Galactica: Exodus Expansion » Forums » Variants
Re: Building a seventh skill card deck
Ripshawd wrote:
TDaver wrote:
Well, how would you rule on a "should we try for an Iron WIll?"

It's the same thing.


I'd rule that this is overstepping the Secrecy rules. But, I guess something as blatant as "I'm going to throw in a bit of extra security, but we don't want to tank this one now!" would be okay. It's such a fine line, especially with PBF games.

Yar, flatly stating it is a bit much. It's basically if you'd accept a Cylon telling his team-mate, "If we make them fail this hard, my Iron will will hurt them."
 
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David Turczi
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Okay then. "I'm putting a Blind Faith in" is a no-no, but "we can trust our Faith on this one" is okay
 
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Mark L
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The deck is starting to look really good!

Blind Faith is fine, but as Ripshawd said (I should just let him do all the talking), having two cards that are so similar doesn't feel right to me. I'd like another card that deals with Cylon ship activations...

Blind Faith
Skill Check: If this skill check passes by 4 or more, skip the Activate Cylon Ships step of this turn. If this check fails by 4 or more, skip the Prepare for Jump step of this turn.

Sounds okay?
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Robert Stewart
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Blind Faith sounds to me more like:

Blind Faith 6
Play before a skill check to ignore all skill check abilities on cards in that skill check. Treat skill cards in that skill check as though they had strength 2.
 
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markino wrote:
The deck is starting to look really good!

Blind Faith is fine, but as Ripshawd said (I should just let him do all the talking), having two cards that are so similar doesn't feel right to me. I'd like another card that deals with Cylon ship activations...

Blind Faith
Skill Check: If this skill check passes by 4 or more, skip the Activate Cylon Ships step of this turn. If this check fails by 4 or more, skip the Prepare for Jump step of this turn.

Sounds okay?


I really like this! (See, this is why I don't do all the talking! There are so many clever people here on the Geek!)
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