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Subject: Hexes with Multiple Obstacles rss

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James
Canada
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A unit is in a building and there is a wall along one of the hexsides.
How does this work for Wall Advantage if an enemy unit is moving adjacent to the wall?
The unit in the building can't claim both the buildng and the wall's TEM when fired upon.
Also, if the unit in the building claims wall advantage how is it affected if fired upon from a direction that does not cross the wall hexside?
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Brent Pollock
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I think this is all covered in the rules.

What edition are you working from?
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Rick Lopez
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Hollister
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In a nutshell, the unit in the building must have declared wall advantage at a prior opportunity (as listed in the newer wall advantage rules), in order to deny the enemy unit wall advantage. Otherwise, the enemy unit as it moves up to the wall may declare wall advantage, and receive WA benefits. Units in a wall hex with no other beneficial terrain are assumed WA and marked. The second edition rules include the WA rules as they are now, and I believe a module included the updated rules, IIRC. Also, be aware that Bocage rules are similar, but differ in concealment, movement, etc.
A unit that declares WA does not receive the benefit, if LOS is clear of the wall and building.
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Scott Eagles
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RickHy wrote:
A unit that declares WA does not receive the benefit, if LOS is clear of the wall and building.


LOS does not have to be clear of the in-hex terrain, it need only not cross a hexside that the target is claiming Wall Advantage over. Check out the example under B9.321 towards the end. The target unit is considered in Open Ground even though LOS is drawn to the hex center dot of a building Location. In-hex terrain would block LOS only in the case of atypical LOS (Bypass, Snapshot, etc.). Moral of the story is, watch your back when claiming WA goo

S.

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James
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WBRP wrote:
I think this is all covered in the rules.

What edition are you working from?


Seems sarcastic and not very helpful.
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Brent Pollock
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grahamj wrote:
WBRP wrote:
I think this is all covered in the rules.

What edition are you working from?


Seems sarcastic and not very helpful.


I was in no mood to do your homework for you.
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Brent Pollock
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I've given oodles of help around here.

Like I said - wasn't in the mood. The question was too vague about what part of the rule was causing him problems. Just seemed to me that he hadn't put the time into it. No citations. No 'the wording seems confusing' type problem. No attempt to answer his own question before posting. No nothin'. Just wanted someone else to do the heavy lifting.
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Ryan Powers
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WBRP wrote:
I've given oodles of help around here.

Like I said - wasn't in the mood.


Then don't. And while you're at it, don't chime in just to be an ass.

The version portion of your initial post was reasonable adn I almost used it to defend you. But the rest of it, and your reaction to being called on it just reinforces your goal was not clarification, it was to be an ass.
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Brent Pollock
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Lazy question gets a lazy answer.
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Miikka Sohlman
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I live in the city of Gulf, on the shores of Lake Water. This fun fact has nothing to do with this badge you're pointing at.
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The question is actually pretty good, and I know I've wondered about this before. It's not intuitive at all that when you're against the wall, the building behind you doesn't give any cover even if the LOS goes straight through it.

Sometimes you just have to bring these questions up in the forums to get that final confirmation whatever the rules say.
 
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Martin Vicca
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Part of the problem is this is an area that changed between version 1 version 2 and the AP6 wall rules. I think that the MMP website may have the new rules up for download but you might want to check that.

If you have not claimed WA then the moving unit can claim it, you get building tem they get wall tem. If you have claimed it then you get wall tem they get nothing but any fire from across a no wall hex side gets zero tem. WA can be given up at anytime so you could fire at the adjacent unit in DFF then give up your WA to get building tem in AdvFPh.
 
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Al Cannamore
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Eagle River
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Hipsu wrote:
It's not intuitive at all that when you're against the wall, the building behind you doesn't give any cover even if the LOS goes straight through it.


That bothered me too until I read B9.322 very carefully. This paragraph overlaps two pages, both of them replaced with errata; B8vB dated 2000 and B9 dated 2008. B8vB came from MMPs Support website and I think B9 came from AP4.

In that paragraph it states that WA may be forfeited at any time. Therefore if you want the +3 stone bldg tem you have to forfeit WA. It still is counterintuitive to the example you give but at least you have a choice.

Allan
 
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Brent Pollock
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Ass & dick, eh...'pistols at dawn' to the both of you.

The original question about rules edition still stands, because B7vB & B8vB (from 2000) seem to cover it off, especially the first B9.321 EX.
 
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Robin REEVE
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The WA rules are not the easiest to grasp.

Now, I understand that Brent points to the fact that the rules clearly adress the question.
It is - in the other ASL forums that I visit - quite common not to answer to questions which simply ask to read the rules.
Now, when I have time, I do point to the rules section involved.
In the present case, B9.321 rule example adresses the question, I believe.

BTW, calling someone a dick or an ass is insulting - and is much more offending than a blunt "go and read the rules" answer.
 
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Robin REEVE
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ASLNoob wrote:
Besides the whole basis of our friendly community derives from not just telling questioners to "go read the rules".
I do agree that it is a blunt way of interacting.
Now, the "community" over here is far from being "friendly".ninja
 
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Miikka Sohlman
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I live in the city of Gulf, on the shores of Lake Water. This fun fact has nothing to do with this badge you're pointing at.
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Robin wrote:
Now, the "community" over here is far from being "friendly".ninja

Hmm? I find the BGG ASL community being one of the friendliest ones I've seen and been in.
 
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Rick Lopez
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Scott of course is correct. In hex terrain would not block a shot, but the WA guys would not gain benefit of the terrain.
Always remember to think before posting, especially a last minute before going to work type of situation.
Brent's answer really isn't out of line, but it does illustrate the loss of inflection when electronic discussions are going on. There are some differences in the ASL rule editions, along with clarifications that were included with expansions. Knowing that can make a difference when providing a rules quotation or a rule number to refer to.
 
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Robin REEVE
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Hipsu wrote:
Hmm? I find the BGG ASL community being one of the friendliest ones I've seen and been in.
I thought it was a nice one, until I was openly and wrongly called a liar.
Of course, I was trying to give some data to moderate a thread where some were howling against MMP because of the color of lvl 3 hill hexes on board 2 - I dared show shots of my set, which was OK (thus expressing that the problem was not universal) and I was directly insulted - with no apologies nor any settlement of the problem, even though I offered ways of apeasement.
The anti-MMP atmosphere was heavy at those times (I publicly apologized for having opposed it by speaking of "whiners" and "bashing").
The MMP guys tried to give some information but were subject to very agressive reactions, so they don't come over here a lot.

Now, I reckon that the BGG forum has cooled down since those gloomy days.
But I still am wary that some guys over here will jump at my throat if I dare be too positive about MMP.
 
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Stephen Stewart
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WBRP wrote:
Ass & dick, eh...'pistols at dawn' to the both of you.

The original question about rules edition still stands, because B7vB & B8vB (from 2000) seem to cover it off, especially the first B9.321 EX.



Usually, I'm one to help at the drop of a post.

BUT, this is the point.

It seems to be a very simple question...Reading a small section of the rules (albeit, a couple times) should arrive at the "simple" answer.

I "read" the same into this question. BIG BOOK, sometimes stuff hard to find...this isn't one of them.

Not that I'm harking on the OP, but, personally, I'd pretext my post to say... Can't find the damn rule...don't really get it...can you clarify this for me... AND most of the "negative" comments wouldn't show up.

That being said, If we don't like the "lazy" comment, PLEASE don't comment on the negative comment.

It's like training a dog. DON'T focus on the NEGATIVE, only the POSITIVE... Results will be better.

Again, I don't really like the short "This a dumb post" post, but ASL DEMANDS reading and rereading the rules...there will always be questions, as the nature of ASL gives.

NOTE: this really isn't that bad a post compared to the much SIMPLER games (i.e. EUROs) that people can't even figure out how many starting pieces they get...("uh, read the first sentence on SETUP you SILLY")

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Stephen Stewart
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Advanced Squad Leader » Forums » General
Re: Hexes with Multiple Obstacles
grahamj wrote:
WBRP wrote:
I think this is all covered in the rules.

What edition are you working from?


Seems sarcastic and not very helpful.


Seems sarcastic and not very helpful.

I think condescending is the word you are looking for.
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