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Subject: PLEASE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP ME rss

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Kevin Riddle

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seriously a return of netrunner!! that would be awesome!

I used to have the shirt that came out with it, I might be able to get it back from a friend ...

I'd be in buying a couple sets, no foils, original art (basically as close to the original as possible)

thanks
 
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Jamie
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1. Icon fine, foils irrelevant, different artwork for some of the 1st edition cards however would be ok.
2. Up to $100 but I would expect a suitcase full of high quality cards for that.
3. Assuming I was paying upto $100 I'd expect not to need more than 1 set other than expansions.
4. Absolutley.
 
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Julian Lemonnier
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1. Icon. No foils please.
2. $40-80
3. Of course!
4. Yes I'll preorder if it helps.
 
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Jason Bryan
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I would be very interested as well.

1. The icon I am indifferent about, but no foils.
2. Under 60 would be great.
3. Depends on the price point and the number of cards in each box. Certainly one, possibly two if the price was reasonable.
4. I would be very interested in preordering.

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Frizzler
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Hi,

first of all, the next four steps towards a Netrunner reprint are:

1) Somebody find out whether the old, original printing sheets still exist. Are they still functional? Where are they located? Especially, who has the original image files which were used for the printing run?
2) Is there any US resident who is willing to put this up on Kickstarter?
3) I am confident that we successfully collect 100.000 $ for a reprint on Kickstarter. But for creating a business plan, we must know how much license fee WotC/Hasbro and Talsorian will charge?
4) Also, what would be the cost for printing, cutting and packaging 10.000 boxes of 200 cards each?

As long as these questions are unanswered, this whole discussion is nothing but hot air.


Anyway, my replies to Ludo's original questions:
1) The reprint cards should contain an icon indicating their original rarity. By this icon, they could also be distinguished from the old cards.
No foils.
Alternative art: Depends on the answer to my question number 1 above.
2) I think 30 $ for a box containing 200 cards or 40 $ for a box containing 300 cards is reasonable, not more.
3) Yes, I will buy one copy. I would buy even more copies if my proposals concerning the box content are followed. You find my proposals here:
http://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/733568/best-content-for-...
4) I will buy it once released; but I would preorder the box if it is done through Kickstarter.

Cu, Fabian
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David Halliday
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Some repeat comments and a suggestion

As a Netrunner player from way back, I have a few comments. Some of these may already have been made but I'll repeat them here as they answer your questions and they underpin the suggestions I want to make.

1. No foils - if you want attract new players then show them that you are treating the game seriously by avoiding marketing gimmicks. A symbol on the cards to indicate they are a reprint is highly desirable as it avoids complaints from the collectors' market that you are damaging prices (and it would help with sorting if players combine old and new cards in constructed decks). You don't need rarity symbols as this version won't be a CCG.

2. Given the number of US and non-US posts in this thread, do not use Kickstarter or Babeldoor unless you can address the postage costs issue - Kickstarter costs to Europe have been a deal breaker for all the projects that I have wanted to sponsor in the past.

3. In this instance I suspect that a significant part of the price of the box will be underpinned by the licensing costs and the creation of new printing plates. I would like to see a price around the £40/Eur45 mark, and at or below that price I would pre-order. In truth I could probably create any box you develop out of the cards I have already, but a new print run means NR becomes available to new players and I want to encourage that.

4. Keep the old art but don't just reprint the old set in full. A box with one of each card won't work as some of the cards were intended to work only with multiple copies. Even though Highlander is a good NR format, certain cards tend to be first or early picks for any deck you are building. New players aren't likely to want to invest in two boxes from the outset, so think what happens when two players use cards from one box: when the change from Corp to Runner takes place the old decks will probably have to be disassembled to retrieve cards to build the new ones. Personally I would see this as a bit of a pain as it interrupts the game flow.

With all this in mind I would suggest that you aim for a Dominion-size 300 to 350-card box with two (or possibly three as suggested by salmacis) each of some of the Vitals and other draft early picks like Accounts Receivable. Before things get too advanced, open up a discussion about card selection with the NR community. Put a starter selection on a BGG Geeklist so that people can discuss the merits of individual cards, and nominate ones they would like included (it might turn into a long list, but it could also be used as the basis for selecting cards for inclusion in subsequent expansions). If people really have a big issue with cards like Tycho they can suggest that they are left out, or that only one copy is included (personally I think an early Tycho behind one piece of Ice cuts both ways, particularly if Inside Job is out there devil and Highlander limits the number of fast advancement cards you can put in the deck to score Agenda out of hand). Make sure your final card list provides scope for a number of balanced pre-constructed decks.

Good luck with the project, and I hope you can extract a good deal from Wiazrds/Hasbro/Talasorian. I've subscribed to this thread so please keep posting updates here.

Edit to remove comment about tabs as it didn't make sense.




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Frizzler
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Netrunner » Forums » News
Re: PLEASE IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO HELP ME
Meepleplex wrote:

2. Given the number of US and non-US posts in this thread, do not use Kickstarter or Babeldoor unless you can address the postage costs issue - Kickstarter costs to Europe have been a deal breaker for all the projects that I have wanted to sponsor in the past.


Hi,

if we don't use Kickstarter, how should a Netrunner reprint be funded?
I don't believe Wizards/Hasbro/RTalsorian will pay for it and I don't think a single person will invest a sum which is sufficient to make WotC move.

In order to keep the shipping costs lower, we could first ship all the boxes ordered from Germany/France in one big package from the US to me/Wormhole Surfer, then we ship them further to the individual pledgers.
Let's calculate this, assuming 1000 players from Germany order one box each through kickstarter:
- assume 1000 Euro for shipping all of them from US to me (1 Euro per box)
- assume 90 euro cent for packaging each
- 4,10 Euro for shipping each box (this is currently the price for a "Päckchen" inside Germany)
- 1 Euro per box for my efforts
==> Yields 7 Euro shipping costs per box. That is not too much.

However, you are right about the license fees that WotC/Hasbro/RTalsorian will charge and the high costs for new printed sheets. This will probably be the show stopper.

SeeYa, Frizzler

P.S.: Look at this: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1325766284/d-day-dice-bo...
170.000 Dollars...
 
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David Halliday
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fabianfritzer wrote:

if we don't use Kickstarter, how should a Netrunner reprint be funded?


Hi Fabian, did I play against you in a runners.net tournament some time back?

I'm not saying don't use Kickstarter, the point I wanted to make was that people this side of the Atlantic are likely to be put off by the mailing premium that is imposed upon them. The solution you propose - shipping in bulk and onward posting - would work, and I would definitely buy in on that basis. In fact it may be simpler than that: I may be mistaken but I think I heard somewhere that the original NR cards were printed in Europe by a Dutch firm. If a license can be obtained, and the firm still has the art files and print specifications, it might make sense to use them again.

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Jean-Claude CALONNE
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1) The icon is ok as far as I'm concerned.
Not very fond of alternative art but ... as you see fit
2) Between $40 and $50 would be fine, but I could deal with paying a bit more.
3) I will buy one copy.
4) I would preorder.
 
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Frizzler
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Meepleplex wrote:

Hi Fabian, did I play against you in a runners.net tournament some time back?


Probably yes, what is your nick name on runners-net? I am still playing online from time to time btw.

So we already found a solution for the shipping problem.

I just looked on the bottom of a starter display: "Printed in Canada, packaged in USA". So the cards were not printed in the Netherlands.

Anyway, maybe I should really take the time and write a letter to WotC, asking them whether they are interested in a Netrunner reprint funded through kickstarter and how much money would be needed.

SeeYa, Fabian
 
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David Halliday
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fabianfritzer wrote:

Probably yes, what is your nick name on runners-net? I am still playing online from time to time btw.

....

Anyway, maybe I should really take the time and write a letter to WotC, asking them whether they are interested in a Netrunner reprint funded through kickstarter and how much money would be needed.



My nickname was Googol when I played - I don't have much time at the moment but I may go back in the future.

The problem with Wizards/Hasbro may be their "we are a big company, this is a small blip on the radar that isn't worth the effort" attitude - let's hope not though.

 
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Frizzler
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Hi,

@Googol: I just checked my "games-played-file" and you are not in it. Although I well remember your name from runners-net, it seems we missed each other in the tournaments. Maybe one day we will get to play with each other.

As announced, here is my letter to Wizards / Hasbro. Before I send it, any feedback is appreciated.

"
Dear ladies and gentleman (or how do you start a business letter?),

I am a fan of your trading card game Netrunner and as many other fans of the game, I would love to see a reprint.
A discussion about a hypothetic Netrunner reprint was recently held on boardgamegeek and our idea is to put a Netrunner reprint up as a project on www.kickstarter.com.
Many other games have successfully collected several ten thousands of dollars through this funding platform in the past.

A Netrunner reprint funded through Kickstarter has several advantages for you:
1) You don't have any financial risk, the money is collected before you spend it for printing the cards. If not enough money gets raised through kickstarter, nothing happens.
2) You don't need a place for storing the cards. They can be sent directly to the buyers.
3) You don't need to spend any money for advertisement. Kickstarter and the Netrunner community will find the customers for you.

So I have several questions to you:
1) Under which conditions would you allow me and some other Netrunner fans to organize a kickstarter project for a Netrunner reprint?
2) What is the minimum amount of money that we have to offer you to make you print and package e.g. 10.000 boxes with 200 cards each? The sum must cover all license fees.
3) Before a reprint, some cards should become corrected (e.g. the errata and some cards that got banned). Do the image files still exist that were used for the original printing run?
4) May I publish your reply?

I am writing this in a real letter on paper to show that I am serious. But you may of course reply to me by e-mail:
##

Yours sincerely, (or how do you end a business letter?)
##
"
 
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Vangelis Bagiartakis
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Hi,

so far I hadn't replied in this thread but I was following it with interest since I happen to like Netrunner very much (even though it's been a very long time since I last played it)

When you first started the thread and you asked for feedback from the community I was under the impression (as I am sure many others) that some initial discussions had been done (presumably with Wizads of the Coast) and that you had found a way to have the game reprinted (maybe you had arranged to get the rights or something like that) and were asking questions about how it would be best to proceed.

Your letter above however, indicates that none of these has happened. Correct me if I am wrong but - to me at least - it seems that you just had the idea that via kickstarter the game could be reprinted and rushed to announce it to the community, without having contacted the rights holders first.

Although your letter seems well written, I am almost a 100% sure that if Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro were to ever think about a Netrunner reprint they would never use kickstarter. They are one of the biggest game companies οn this planet and they can't afford to print out a few copies of a game? The cost for a reprint the way you initially proposed (say 1000 or 2000 boxes with 200-300 cards each) would only cost some tens of thousands of dollars. (I would say 50.000 max) That's nothing for them. But even thinking about going to kickstarter to raise money for it, would cause serious damage to the company and to its shareholders. If it were some small independent company I could see them using kickstarter as a means to raise the money, but Hasbro? Seriously?

But let's say they decide to go on with a reprint, one way or another. What makes you think they would handle the whole thing to some random guy in germany and have him organize it? No matter how good your intentions are, something like that just doesn't happen. They would handle the whole thing themselves and they would run it on their own any way the would see fit.

Sorry if I am letting you down but it just seems like the whole thing was just a combination of fanboy-ism and wishful thinking. I hope that I am wrong and if I am I will take it back and back you all the way. However this is what your letter shows to me.

In my opinion, if you really want to follow this through, you should contact Wizards of the Coast and send them a letter/email stating that you are interested in acquiring the rights of the game in order to reprint it. Don't mention anything about kickstarter or having yourself organizing it on their behalf. Just ask if they are willing to give the rights and the cost for that.

Depending on their answer you take it from there, and only after you have closed the deal or are very close to it, do you inform the community. Then you will be the one running it, raising the money and arranging the reprint's details.

I'd love to see this game once again on the shelves. It is one of the best that came out and it really deserves it. However, I don't see this moving forward the way you are describing it and I feel like I have been led to believe that there was a chance there, when there was none.

Hope you prove me wrong.
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David Halliday
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Fabian, I have Geekmailed a reply about your letter with some thoughts about the content. If you want to open it up to community discussion please feel free to C&P into a post.

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Tilou
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avyssaleos wrote:

When you first started the thread and you asked for feedback from the community I was under the impression (as I am sure many others) that some initial discussions had been done (presumably with Wizads of the Coast) and that you had found a way to have the game reprinted (maybe you had arranged to get the rights or something like that) and were asking questions about how it would be best to proceed.

Your letter above however, indicates that none of these has happened.


Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.
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David Halliday
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avyssaleos wrote:
Hi,

I am almost a 100% sure that if Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro were to ever think about a Netrunner reprint they would never use kickstarter. They are one of the biggest game companies οn this planet and they can't afford to print out a few copies of a game? The cost for a reprint the way you initially proposed (say 1000 or 2000 boxes with 200-300 cards each) would only cost some tens of thousands of dollars. (I would say 50.000 max) That's nothing for them. But even thinking about going to kickstarter to raise money for it, would cause serious damage to the company and to its shareholders.


Sneaker, you make some valid points in your post, but the section I have quoted above is very much the critical issue. Of course Wizards/Hasbro wouldn't go to Kickstarter, they would finance it themselves. The fact is, however, that they haven't reprinted, suggesting that either they are no longer interested in marketing the product or they see it as too small a blip on their corporate radar to be worth the effort. Either way, an approach by a third party who might use Kickstarter isn't going to carry any reputational risks for their company.

Whatever our personal feelings about the likely outcome, I am sure we are all agreed that Fabian is at least doing the right thing by asking.


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Vangelis Bagiartakis
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tilouboy wrote:
Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.

True. I stand corrected.

However, I think the points I make in regards to the letter and the kickstarter campaign are valid.

Apologies to both Ludovic and Fabian for the confusion in my post regarding who did what.
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Tilou
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It surely wouldn't hurt to know which steps Ludovic has taken so far, but since he hasn't logged in since december...
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Carsten Bohne
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tilouboy wrote:
Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.


Sorry, but that makes it even worse. Do both share the same vision? Has wormholesurfer already contacted WotC (or whoever holds the rights)?

The intended letter suggests that no contact whatsoever has been made yet. The way it's written suggests that fabianfritzer has no idea how to write an English/American business letter. I'd be surprised if WotC or Talsorian or whoever will take this letter seriously. And even though I'm probably not counted as part of the NR community I feel let down because I've been asked to make a commitment based on what appears to be false pretenses.
 
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Wormhole surfer talked to Garfield himself, but the overall theme of the whole thing leaves most to think its still a pipedream, a little better than that, but a pipedream currently.

Wish I had better new, or that someone (WS) comes in here and corrects me.
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Johan Haglert
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TL;DR

Don't care for limited, foil, whatever, anything which make it more expensive suck.

Heck I don't care for expansions.

The lower the price the more interested I would be. It would need to be competitively priced against other popular non-CCG card games for me to care though.
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Ludovic schmidt
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Hi all !

first please forgive me for haven't beeing logged for a while ...
many personal things to solve and many things to do on NR too

i saw Fabian's post about Wotc letter, thanks Fabian for joining the project but, since we are friend i would have appreciate you contacted me before ...

Because all you want to do here.. i made it ...

to clarify something :

yes the project is actually a "pipedream" .. as mentionned before by a player here .. i don't get the right meaning of this but i understand a little

i have contacted about NR reprint Richard Garfiled and meet him
i contacted Mike pondsmith of R Talsorian games about NR reprint
in cosequence of that they meet together recently and i had some feedbacks of their meetings .
They both agree with the project and will support it.
THE MAIN THING is now WOTC, Richard and mike will speak to them but not before having a solid market project, not a question of Quicksterter here .. since wotc don't want to concede the licence yet .. in fact not before having seen the financial project we are going to bring to them .

i have contacted several editors ( 3 main editors of the market) and some of them are interested to join the project ...

so continue to reply to me about your interests of the reprint ... i continue to gather infos...
i am actually discussing with an editor who already worked with Richard Garfield and this editor, as a big surprised to me already spoke to WOTC one years and a half ago about NR reprint .. WOTC jrected the offer at that time but it was before Richard and mike "joined" the project so let's try once again .

Anyway if NR would be reprinted soon or not, we the NRO ruling team ( Fabian, playful, 700TT, Photon 79 and me) have a huge work to do to stabilize the game and the newest released expansion . THE things that broke us in that work was Playful's pb and disconnection for a while, i spoke with him a week aago and things will move again soon.

as i have been very busy on personnal things i didn't find time to follow the project but my personnal things are on a good way to be solved so i think we can finish our " on working" project in the next 6 months
to summup something we are actually
clarifying the rules by editing a errata file 1.8
creating a new game format "revised 3.0"
balancing and correcting a little open war
balancing deep run
illustrating/balancing/correcting : winterdawn, chrysalid matrix, RIP and the "last" 4 expansion created by Playful

there is many other virtual expansions but they need more work on them to be stabilized and balanced so it will come later ...anyway with the expansions mentionned up .. we have enough material to play for the next 20 years !

i want to clarify something too

i have never left NR since i came in 13 years ago and make difference between my work in the NRO team on www.netrunneronline.com and the project mentionned here.
if the reprint project failed, don't worry for all players who want to play it there will always remain the NRO team and the projects we are driving . i will create in the next 3 months a new NR site ( english and french, maybe in german too ? Fabian ? ) to be a good complement of www.netrunneronline.com where you will find all expansions, rules, ...

I continue my project with WOTC, the editors, Richard and mike But don't leave the freeware version of NR too.. so why waiting for the reprint if you can immediatly run NRO ?

Run Runners !
Seeya

WMS

PS: @ Frizzler, feel free to contact me about that, Khronnax contacted e recently and i saw many things with him .. he can help us ( the NRO team)
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Ludovic schmidt
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dasher47051 wrote:
tilouboy wrote:
Those are two different persons. wormhole surfer started the thread. fabianfritzer is now taking it in a different direction.


Sorry, but that makes it even worse. Do both share the same vision? Has wormholesurfer already contacted WotC (or whoever holds the rights)?

The intended letter suggests that no contact whatsoever has been made yet. The way it's written suggests that fabianfritzer has no idea how to write an English/American business letter. I'd be surprised if WotC or Talsorian or whoever will take this letter seriously. And even though I'm probably not counted as part of the NR community I feel let down because I've been asked to make a commitment based on what appears to be false pretenses.


as i already replied i already get the answers on Fabian's letter, on many points ...
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1. No foils.
2. I would spend $60-$100 if the set had multiple copies of each card.
3. I'm a beginner, but I would buy this.
4. I would pre-order/kickstarter this if needed.
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Mikolaj Laczynski
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badash56 wrote:
1. No foils.
2. I would spend $60-$100 if the set had multiple copies of each card.
3. I'm a beginner, but I would buy this.
4. I would pre-order/kickstarter this if needed.


My answers would be exactly the same.
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