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Subject: Partial/Incomplete Session Reports for Wargames rss

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Matthew M Monin
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Michael Dorosh wrote:


I would think that if publishing a session report, one would also want to ensure its quality by at least finishing the game and ensuring it was "ready for prime time", even if for no other reason than just plain courtesy.


I don't buy this argument at all. There are so many people who read the site with so many different interests that there are bound to be people that find value in just about any new content of any substance. A report of a first turn in a game may be exactly what some people want to see.

There is an entire genre of video reviews that have popped up that contain nothing other than unboxing the game and showing off the components. Nothing about rules...nothing about how it plays. If there is space for that (and there absolutely is) then there is a place for session reports for partial plays. If it doesn't interest you personally then don't read them.

-MMM
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blockhead wrote:

When I write a Session Report I write up each turn as I go, or take notes, and then put the whole thing together after the game is done and post what I like to think of as a nice, finished product.


Regardless of whether one thinks reports before a game is complete are OK or not, taking good notes like this will certainly make session reports better!
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Justus Pendleton
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I agree with the OP, at least to a certain extent, if only because it seems like most partial session reports cover the "easy" part (i.e. the action you can imagine/deduce more easily based solely on the setup & rules) of the game and we often don't get to see part #2--100 posted. I don't like them for the same reason I don't like reading reviews that talk about rules in detail. I'd rather see what the mid- and end-game is like and hear thoughts about them.

But that's only my personal preference and their existence doesn't bother me too much.
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Judy Krauss
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Did anyone else find some of the comments in this thread to be pretty rude and unfriendly? What happened to wargamers being generally helpful and friendly and being able to disagree without making personal attacks? soblue


Anyway, my 2¢:
I don't mind partial session reports as long as it's stated up front. I also like when further related session reports are added to the same thread later.
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Bill Wood
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I think it is all good.

Maybe folks intend to finish and simply do not - this does not mean they are bad lazy people.
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Enrico Viglino
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Jude wrote:
Did anyone else find some of the comments in this thread to be pretty rude and unfriendly? What happened to wargamers being generally helpful and friendly and being able to disagree without making personal attacks? :soblue:


Dunno. Whole tenor of the site changed recently.
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Bill Wood
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calandale wrote:
Jude wrote:
Did anyone else find some of the comments in this thread to be pretty rude and unfriendly? What happened to wargamers being generally helpful and friendly and being able to disagree without making personal attacks? soblue


Dunno. Whole tenor of the site changed recently.



A consensus is brewing that the wargamers are not wanted here anymore.

An ugly corner has apparently been turned.

Personally, I have recently considered abandoning BGG - something very unwelcoming has taken place.

The mood of the place has become dark and burdensome.

Perhaps it will get better - I shall be patient.
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calandale wrote:
Jude wrote:
Did anyone else find some of the comments in this thread to be pretty rude and unfriendly? What happened to wargamers being generally helpful and friendly and being able to disagree without making personal attacks? soblue


Dunno. Whole tenor of the site changed recently.


Really? I think:

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Bill Wood
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Judy Krauss
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ETC.

Sound like their usual selves...

But I think
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I like good quality writing. If the session report is well written, it doesn't matter to me whether its for a complete game or for a portion of the game.

There was a very well written set of session reports for a game of EuroFront that was broken up into several pieces as the game went on every week.

Now, the game was never completed (or the session reports were never written), but the articles were still very worthwhile.

There's enough content here to please and offend everyone if you look hard enough.

Me, I subscribe to users I want to read, and to games/topics/threads that interest me.

And the stuff that doesn't interest me? I just skip it.
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Jeremy H
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Michael Dorosh wrote:
I just feel it's too bad that craftsmanship has fallen so far. It used to be that pride was taken in the written word and the way one presented one's self to others.



Ok... you might want to think about what you are saying here. The site is BoardgameGeek, and I think we should emphasize the word 'game'. This is not a site for the sharing of scholarly works, where one should analyze each written work for its succinctness, mastery of grammar, and the proper use of its source language. It's just about games, simple as that.

I can't speak for the others, but when I read a game review, read up on various game news, noodle through the forums, or read an AAR for that matter, I am not expecting to be reading works crafted by veritable wordsmiths. I expect to read works written by folks who happen to be passionate enough about their hobby to write about it and post it on a public game forum for others to read - nothing more.

If you have a problem with some of the written material here on this site and feel the quality of that work is below your standards, don't read it. If partial AAR reports are unacceptable to you, don't review them. You are allowed to have you opinions and share them if you wish, but I think your criterion is a little unreasonable.

I am generally appreciative of any material being posted on a game I'm interested in.

That's all I have to add - I need get back to my first game of Elsenborn Ridge. Those pesky Germans aren't cutting me any slack.

Carry on. cool
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Wilhammer wrote:
calandale wrote:
Jude wrote:
What happened to wargamers being generally helpful and friendly and being able to disagree without making personal attacks? soblue

Dunno. Whole tenor of the site changed recently.

A consensus is brewing that the wargamers are not wanted here anymore.

What the heck are you talking about? Jude said something about the posts in this thread; how did we get from there to wargamers-as-victims?
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Matthew M Monin
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kuhrusty wrote:
Wilhammer wrote:
calandale wrote:
Jude wrote:
What happened to wargamers being generally helpful and friendly and being able to disagree without making personal attacks? soblue

Dunno. Whole tenor of the site changed recently.

A consensus is brewing that the wargamers are not wanted here anymore.

What the heck are you talking about? Jude said something about the posts in this thread; how did we get from there to wargamers-as-victims?


This.

Can we avoid poisoning someone else's thread with that tangent? Take it to it's own thread.

Thanks.

-MMM

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Michael Debije
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blockhead wrote:
(I'm reposting this from BGG Related because a) I don't know how to move it, b) I suspect most wargamers don't read the BGG Related area, c) it's really only likely to come up with long wargames anyway)

I've recently come across a few Session Reports in the Wargaming subdomain where the poster was discussing his first couple of turns and a promise to post more later.

This strikes me as wrong. I think of a Session Report as covering the whole game; some introductory remarks, coverage of the course of the game (turn by turn or summarized as the author feels best) and some sort of wrap-up/opinion on how it all went.

Maybe the problem is the term "session". Yeah, it's a report of the two turns that got played that "session", but who cares? I want to hear about the whole game, even if it takes 40 "sessions" over 6 months.

When I write a Session Report I write up each turn as I go, or take notes, and then put the whole thing together after the game is done and post what I like to think of as a nice, finished product. These "what I did last night" snippets just seem lacking to me and I'm surprised the Moderators allow incomplete postings.

Or am I just off base?


Totally off base.
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Eric Lai
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My mum use to say when my dad complained about her cooking... "Shut-up, unless you cook."

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David
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Wow this thread has gone way off course

By the way, does anyone else think that unboxing videos that have the shrink wrap removed prior to the video are partial unboxings? Man they really annoy me! If I view an unboxing video, I want to see the damn thing arrive at the door, collected, hidden from the wife, and unboxed from the beginning...
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Eric Lai
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This I am interested in....
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bruinrefugee
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Wargames » Forums » General
Re: Partial/Incomplete Session Reports for Wargames
Octavian wrote:
kuhrusty wrote:
Wilhammer wrote:
calandale wrote:
Jude wrote:
What happened to wargamers being generally helpful and friendly and being able to disagree without making personal attacks? :soblue:

Dunno. Whole tenor of the site changed recently.

A consensus is brewing that the wargamers are not wanted here anymore.

What the heck are you talking about? Jude said something about the posts in this thread; how did we get from there to wargamers-as-victims?


This.

Can we avoid poisoning someone else's thread with that tangent? Take it to it's own thread.

Thanks.

-MMM



Yes, because there's NOTHING inappropriate about a thread who's entire subject is "I want to complain about how much those people who do things for free really annoy me because they don't do it the way I like."

Get real. The entire topic is poison.

A partial AAR is just fine, or at least was.
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Igor Kwiatkowski
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Are you aware that session reports go through the same modding system that images go through?
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waffel wrote:
Are you aware that session reports go through the same modding system that images go through?

As someone who did more geekmodding than wargaming (but I'm trying to change that!), the relevant parts of my opinion on this topic:
- I like good session reports. I prefer a good partial report to a bad full report.
- No need to (and please don't) promise to deliver the full AAR later, but if you continue writing the report, please do it in the same thread. Edit the first post, either to extend the AAR or to provide a link to the reply that holds the following turn(s).
- There always is someone who does not like what you write. But as long as there is a chance that it is worth reading for someone, please post it.

And finally (not related to the original or waffel's post):
I'm a bit tired of the complaints that BGG is trying to put wargamers in the darkest corners, never to be seen by the "good" users of the site. I think it is worth posting, that you feel this way, but I do not want to see it in half of the threads.
In other (hopefully friendlier) words: Please do not scare me away from the Wargames subdomain forums.
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Rob Tyson
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It's amazing how many panties have gotten into a twist because two folks posted their less than glowing opinion on partial AAR's. shake
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Garfink wrote:
Snowman wrote:
hidden from the wife


This I am interested in....


Ooopss....I don't know you have the same need.laugh
 
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Thanks for your opinions guys. I was right about one thing, 2 days on BGG related netted no comments, 12 hours under wargames got 51!

Clearly the majorities have no problem with partial sessions, which is good for me to know. I was in fact asking about what our community standards might be as I was genuinely surprised that this was an acceptable practice. Better informed now, I won't try to launch a campaign.

Couple of other points I might reply to:

To comment that one shouldn't complain unless willing to do the cooking oneself. I have in fact written 25 Session Reports, none of them partial. The EuroFront II game ended at that point with a Russian Victory.

I've not said the partial reports are poorly written, my question related only to the fact they are partial.

The idea of opening a thread with a partial report, then going back and editing the initial post, or at least adding further turns in the SAME thread seems like a good community standard to adopt. What I'm seeing is a new thread for every session.

Lastly, I am certainly not bashing wargamers, I've been a wargamer my whole life and even a cursory look at my microbadges or collection would so indicate. Nor do I feel unwelcome on BGG, I wouldn't have been here so long nor contributed so much if I did. The only reason I posted in the wargaming subdomain is that is where I see the (no longer a) "problem".

I do think BGG has some structural assumptions, like a given game can be played to completion in one session, that are sometimes a misfit with the realities of wargaming. I don't attribute anything sinister to that, it's just the frame of reference the site obviously started with. But it does then raise the question I started with, given that we wargamers sometimes play a single "game" over multiple sessions, what is our attitude towards session reports that only cover a partial game?

You have clearly and thoughtfully answered that for me and I appreciate your time. Back to gaming table!
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James Lowry
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blockhead wrote:
I've recently come across a few Session Reports in the Wargaming subdomain where the poster was discussing his first couple of turns and a promise to post more later.

This strikes me as wrong. I think of a Session Report as covering the whole game; some introductory remarks, coverage of the course of the game (turn by turn or summarized as the author feels best) and some sort of wrap-up/opinion on how it all went.

Well, put it like this:

Look here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/blogcategory/570/bvr-the-wind

Do you really want me to write all of that up at one time?

Do you want me to post it all at one time?

Do you want to read it all at one time?

And, I'm sorry, I'm just not going to wait another year or two for the game to finish.
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Enrico Viglino
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ThomasAH wrote:

And finally (not related to the original or waffel's post):
I'm a bit tired of the complaints that BGG is trying to put wargamers in the darkest corners, never to be seen by the "good" users of the site. I think it is worth posting, that you feel this way, but I do not want to see it in half of the threads.
In other (hopefully friendlier) words: Please do not scare me away from the Wargames subdomain forums.


FWIW, I apologize for my earlier comment here.

It violates my self-imposed exile - because I KNEW
that I couldn't help but get involved in the debate over
what happened here. I realize this is too touchy a subject
to be allowed to speak freely about, and that I'd draw a
ban - something I'd like to avoid: the forums ain't worth
losing what else the site has.
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Enrico Viglino
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RobTys wrote:
It's amazing how many panties have gotten into a twist because two folks posted their less than glowing opinion on partial AAR's. :shake:


Actually it's not. Maybe people are just being proactive in
trying to prevent a couple of whiners from changing the way
the site works.

That's why the two issues are linked. This same kind of
stream of complaints caused action favored by a small minority.
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