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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: When Do Staff And Team Upgrades Take Effect rss

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William Garramone
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Let's say I win an upgrade after the first match-up that allows me to gain Fan Points if I have a certain amount of Star Player points face up at any given match-up. That upgrade card would NOT apply to the game I just won even if I had had the appropriate number of Star Player points present at the match.

But would that upgrade apply to any other match-ups I resolve DURING THAT SAME WEEK, or does the upgrade not go into effect until the next turn (week)?

My inclination is to say that any upgrades earned in any given week don't go into effect until the following week because The Scoreboard Phase has Reveal Improvements as step #2; consequently, that would mean Step #1 Resolve Match-ups [steps a-e], would come first. Is this a correct assumption?
 
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John Poskin
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Staff an team upgrades can be used the following week. They can not be used the week you gain them.
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Jean-Philippe Thériault
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The upgrades you get go into your improvements pile and are not even revealed until all the matchups for this week were resolved. So you're right, they don't take effect until the next week.
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Michal U
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Where does it say that upgrades don't start working the moment you reveal them?

Playing as human you won two prizes this weak:
- team upgrade that lets you include normal star players, as they were FreeBooters
- normal star player

Acording to the order of revealing:
- you first show your team upgrade,
- now you show your star player, can you include him as a freebooter?
 
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mark monk
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I wrote something similar in FFG forums.

I was told they take affect immediately or else it means that in the last turn of the game any staff/team upgrades are pointless.

In my last game, during the final round/turn, I won an upgrade allowing me to get fans for each freebooter, plus a freebooter player. FFG forum seems to think that after the revealing of these they come into affect meaning I get fans for any freebooter in my roster, plus fans for the new freebooter. Also, any upgrades won during the last turn count towards 'most upgraded team' if there is a tie.

Go to FFG and find my post about it: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?e...
 
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Brad Miller
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But aren't all of your chosen cards revealed after all matchups and tournaments have been resolved? So you can't use those for those matches.
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Chris D
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dagaff, it seems to me you are confusing a bit the Scoreboard phase of each week with the "End of game", which happens last in a season after everything else, just once.

During the last week, if you collect starplayers as payout, you obviously won't use them in the game since the season has ended, and you won't count them them for any Scoreboard bonus your cards have. The sequence of the Scoreboard phase is pretty clear: you reveal the improvement piles after determining the winner and collectin payouts. So you can't use them in the same week you collected them.

But you WILL count them AFTER for the "End of game" abilities. Same for the Staff upgrades: you win one in the fifth week, you won't be able to use its abilities, but you will count it if you have the staff card that gives you fan at the "End of game" for each Staff upgrade card, for example. Same for Team upgrades.

So it's not useless to collect other things than fans in the last week, but the effective result in fans from them is more dependant on other cards. If nothing else, you could draw the one that give 4 fans in the end, which is not bad...

Which is what you have been told in the FFG forums now that I read it, so I don't understand when you say

Quote:
I was told they take affect immediately or else it means that in the last turn of the game any staff/team upgrades are pointless.


You don't use them immediately, you use them in the following week if there is one or count them in the "End of game"...
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Michal U
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Is there anyone willing to answer my question?

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/8232619#8232619
 
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Guido Gloor
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muk83 wrote:
Where does it say that upgrades don't start working the moment you reveal them?

Playing as human you won two prizes this weak:
- team upgrade that lets you include normal star players, as they were FreeBooters
- normal star player

Acording to the order of revealing:
- you first show your team upgrade,
- now you show your star player, can you include him as a freebooter?

I guess if you want an authoritative answer, you'll need to ask FFG - but to me, it indeed seems that the team upgrade Gryphon-ade goes into effect immediately as soon as it is revealed in the "Reveal Improvement Tile" step (page 15) of the Scoreboard Phase, as second kind of card to be revealed, and thus is available and useable when the third kind of card (Star Players with the Freebooter ability) is to be revealed.

Since the upgrade talks about "drafting" a player, and that is the exact same wording as page 15 uses for the Freebooter special rules, these special rules thus appear to be useable for each and every Star Player you reveal.
 
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Scott L
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muk83 wrote:
Where does it say that upgrades don't start working the moment you reveal them?

Playing as human you won two prizes this weak:
- team upgrade that lets you include normal star players, as they were FreeBooters
- normal star player

Acording to the order of revealing:
- you first show your team upgrade,
- now you show your star player, can you include him as a freebooter?


Personally, I am conflicted with this ruling as well. I will attempt to argue and reason both sides of the issue as I understand them.

Here is my reasoning:
Payout Sections (inset on pg 15)
Star Players: For each icon, the manger draws one Star Player card ... He looks at all the cards drawn and drafts one by placing it in his improvement pile. [emphasis mine]

Reveal Improvement pile (pg 15)
1. Staff Upgrades
2. Team Upgrades
3. Star Players with the Freebooter Ability
4. All Other Star Players

Example: Manager has received as payouts one Team Upgrade "Gryphon-ade" and one Star Player "Cornelius Krieg". During the Reveal Improvement Pile step of the Scoreboard Phase the manager reveals "Gryphon-ade" in Team Upgrades step. Cards reads, "Treat each Star Player you draft as if that player had the Freebooter ability.
Manger reveals Star Player "Cornelius Krieg".

Does the manager get to treat Cornelius Krieg as a Freebooter as per Gryphon-ade?

No.
Cornelius has already been drafted and is only now revealed to other manager(s).
Also, in the Reveal Improvement Pile section of the rules there is no mention of resolving any abilities.

Yes.
Gryphon-ade reads "Scoreboard Phase" which is the current phase. There is no mention that cards do not take effect until after the Reveal Improvement Pile step. And the rules clearly state that upgrades are revealed before Star Players. One would assume this is so that just revealed upgrades would affect to-be-revealed Star Players. Also, the Freebooter ability triggers after being revealed as per the rules (pg 17 Freebooter: When you reveal this player from your improvement pile ...) and the card reads Freebooter (After drafting this player ...).

 
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brian
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Keesvanloomacklin wrote:
Let's say I win an upgrade after the first match-up that allows me to gain Fan Points if I have a certain amount of Star Player points face up at any given match-up. That upgrade card would NOT apply to the game I just won even if I had had the appropriate number of Star Player points present at the match.

But would that upgrade apply to any other match-ups I resolve DURING THAT SAME WEEK, or does the upgrade not go into effect until the next turn (week)?

My inclination is to say that any upgrades earned in any given week don't go into effect until the following week because The Scoreboard Phase has Reveal Improvements as step #2; consequently, that would mean Step #1 Resolve Match-ups [steps a-e], would come first. Is this a correct assumption?

John is correct. Upgrades don't take effect until the next week. As you win them they are placed face-down in an "improvement pile." These are not revealed until after all match-ups have been resolved. So something collected in the 2nd math-cup won't affect the third one.

The rules are quite clear on this (p.9). During the scoreboard phase, all match-ups are resolved in step 1. Your improvement pile is not revealed until Step 2. And step 3 is the passing of the first manager coin and the end of the week.
 
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brian
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haslo wrote:
muk83 wrote:
Where does it say that upgrades don't start working the moment you reveal them?

Playing as human you won two prizes this weak:
- team upgrade that lets you include normal star players, as they were FreeBooters
- normal star player

Acording to the order of revealing:
- you first show your team upgrade,
- now you show your star player, can you include him as a freebooter?

I guess if you want an authoritative answer, you'll need to ask FFG - but to me, it indeed seems that the team upgrade Gryphon-ade goes into effect immediately as soon as it is revealed in the "Reveal Improvement Tile" step (page 15) of the Scoreboard Phase, as second kind of card to be revealed, and thus is available and useable when the third kind of card (Star Players with the Freebooter ability) is to be revealed.

Since the upgrade talks about "drafting" a player, and that is the exact same wording as page 15 uses for the Freebooter special rules, these special rules thus appear to be useable for each and every Star Player you reveal.

Gryphon-Ade should not take effect until the next turn.

During Step 1b is when you resolve Scoreboard Phase Abilities. At this time, your Gryphon-Ade is still in the improvement pile. It won't take affect until the next turn when it is triggered during the next Step 1b.

then when you draft players in the turn following when you selected Gryphon-Ade, you can start treating Star Players as freebooters at your discretion.
 
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Scott L
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ColtsFan76 wrote:

...
During Step 1b is when you resolve Scoreboard Phase Abilities. At this time, your Gryphon-Ade is still in the improvement pile. It won't take affect until the next turn when it is triggered during the next Step 1b.
...


Here is the problem I see with restricting all Scoreboard Phase abilities to step 1b of the Scoreboard Phase: How do you treat the Scoreboard Phase abilities that trigger from winning a highlight?

Scoreboard Phase steps
1 Resolve Matchups
1a Reveal Cheat Tokens
1b Resolve Scoreboard Phase Abilities
1c Determine Winner
1d Collect Payouts
1e Clear the Pitch

If a card such as "Endorsement Deal: Each time you win a highlight, gain a fan" can only be resolved in step 1b, then it will not trigger for a manager winning a highlight because the winner is not determined until the next step (1c).

Also, here is evidence of Scoreboard Phase abilities resolving outside of step 1b. For the effect of Endorsement Deal to trigger, we must apply the ability in step 1c. It is pretty much understood by all that if a manager has this card out and has won a highlight they are awarded fans. The intent of the card is clear, but the timing of its use is not.

Another example would be Gryphon-ade itself. Collect Payouts is step 1d and is the step that Gryphon-ade would need to resolve (when collecting Star Players). If we were restricted to only resolving Scoreboard Phase abilities in step 1b, then Gryphon-ade wouldn't trigger either (because no payouts happen until step 1d). Again, another example of Scoreboard Phase abilities happening outside of step 1b.

I believe my argument hangs on the use of the word Resolve. Can resolve mean to trigger and later complete? Does it mean fully and completely clear up and find an answer to?

Resolve:
to cause resolution of,
Resolution: the act or process of resolving: as
b: the act of answering : solving
c : the act of determining

Resolve:
to deal with successfully : clear up
b : to find an answer to
c : to make clear or understandable
 
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brian
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crazeenca wrote:

Here is the problem I see with restricting all Scoreboard Phase abilities to step 1b of the Scoreboard Phase: How do you treat the Scoreboard Phase abilities that trigger from winning a highlight?

You are not "Restricting them" to that phase but they have to be around at that point to count for anything later in the phase. It is effectively blocking you from using your payouts in the same turn that you get them.
 
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Scott L
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Looks like the FAQ answered this one.

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/blood-bowl/sup...


Q: Can the Reikland Reavers’ team upgrade “Gryphon-ade” be used
the same turn it is revealed from the improvement pile?


A: Yes. The Reikland Reavers manager may reveal “Gryphon-ade” first
in order to apply its scoreboard phase ability to Star Players still in his
improvement pile


Q: Does the Reikland Reavers’ team upgrade “Gryphon-ade” apply
throughout the whole game and even into end of game scoring?


A: No. This scoreboard phase ability allows the Reikland Reavers
manager to treat each Star Player as if it had the Freebooter ability,
which “only occurs during the turn this player was drafted” (rulebook,
page 17). It does not give the Freebooter ability to all Star Players on
the Reikland Reavers’ roster.
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brian
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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game » Forums » Rules
Re: When Do Staff And Team Upgrades Take Effect
crazeenca wrote:
Looks like the FAQ answered this one.

Yep, asked them to add this after the discussion here.
 
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