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Mage Knight Dungeons» Forums » Rules

Subject: Couple questions about ranged attacks and counterattacks rss

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Steve Diamond
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Aloha!

After letting our MKD stuff sit in the garage for 7 or 8 years, we decided to pull it out & try it again, with our Euro-board gaming friends (our main addiction these days). And now that Scott has made those great Hero reference cards (a big help to those of us who are a bit older wear bi-focals, and find it hard to read those little number on smudged dials!), it should be a lot easier to check on stats (awaiting shipment).

But, although I've read the old Dungeon rules booklet (Pyramids) and the "updated" rules I downloaded here and @ Dungeoncrawlers.com, I still have a couple basic questions that I can't seem to find answers for:

#1: If a figure has a range attack (whether hero or mage spawn), and it is in contact with an opponent, can it still make a "close combat" attack on that opposing fig? In other words, can it used the attack stat & damage as a close combat attack?

#2: Similar question re: counterattacking. If a Mage Spawn uses a close combat attack on my Norfur Thott, can Norfur counterattack even though he is base-to-base with the MS?

I used to know this stuff(!), but the years have not been kind ... lol.

Thanks,

Steve
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Kyle W.
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diamondz123 wrote:
#1: If a figure has a range attack (whether hero or mage spawn), and it is in contact with an opponent, can it still make a "close combat" attack on that opposing fig? In other words, can it used the attack stat & damage as a close combat attack?

#2: Similar question re: counterattacking. If a Mage Spawn uses a close combat attack on my Norfur Thott, can Norfur counterattack even though he is base-to-base with the MS?
Figures can always make close combat attacks and counterattacks, just like any figure without a range value.

The only thing those ranged fighters can't do while in base contact like that is make use of abilities that apply specifically to ranged attacks - flame/lightning, magic blast, shockwave, etc.
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Steve Diamond
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Thanks for confirming that, Kyle. I don't know why we got confused about that. Under "Range Attacks" the revised/updated rules on BGG here says, "If your warrior’s range value is greater than 0 and it is not in base contact with an opposing unit, you can give it a ranged combat action." So I understood that, naturally, the figure could not make a ranged attack unless it was at least one square away. But I didn't see where it said, "The figure can still make a close combat attack." I should have remembered this ... for a while, my wife & I helped run MK tournaments (back when our kids were, kids), but that seems ages ago.

Thanks again,

Steve
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Jeff Dunford
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Don't forget that ordinary multiple targets of ranged attacks (and ranged counterattacks) only hit for 1, while close combat attacks and single targets of range attacks (and all counterattacks) hit for an amount equal to the damage value on the clix dial. Often it's best to do some damage from a distance to weaken a mage spawn before charging in for the finishing blow, as the mage spawn will usually be less likely to successfully counterattack after taking some damage.

Note that special ranged attacks, like Magic Blast, can hit for more than 1.
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Steve Diamond
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Jeff, thanks for this additional info. Where does it say this in the rules? I thought I'd gone over several versions of the rules (including original MK), but have not seen this.

I also thought Magic Blast attacks were not possible in close combat -- ranged MB attacks would be calculated simply as close combat attacks, without the special effect (rolling a die for amount of damage).

I've been out of this too long!

Thanks,

Steve
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Kyle W.
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Mage Knight Dungeons » Forums » Rules
Re: Couple questions about ranged attacks and counterattacks
iNano78 wrote:
Don't forget that ordinary* ranged attacks (and ranged counterattacks) only hit for 1, while close combat attacks (and close combat counterattacks) hit for an amount equal to the damage value on the clix dial.
You're thinking of multiple attacks - the damage value only reduces to 1 if you're shooting at two or more targets at once.


Against a single target you do the full printed damage, whether it's an attack or counterattack.
 
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Kyle W.
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diamondz123 wrote:
I also thought Magic Blast attacks were not possible in close combat -- ranged MB attacks would be calculated simply as close combat attacks, without the special effect (rolling a die for amount of damage).
Ranged attacks/counterattacks require a target in a non-adjacent square, so if two figures are in adjacent squares they can only make close combat attacks.


That also means most ranged abilities aren't going to work if the figures are adjacent. One exception is Magic Healing, which somewhere along the line was clarified/ruled to work against friendly figures in an adjacent space despite being a ranged ability; essentially, it's intended as healing that you can use up close or from a distance.

Weapon Master (red square) is the close combat equivalent of Magic Blast.
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Jeff Dunford
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Woelf wrote:
You're thinking of multiple attacks - the damage value only reduces to 1 if you're shooting at two or more targets at once.


Against a single target you do the full printed damage, whether it's an attack or counterattack.


Oops, I just double-checked the ranged attack rules (page 8 of Mage Knight Dungeons Pyramid Rules PDF (Fan updated)) and sure enough, that only applies to multiple targets. Well, that correction will certainly speed up our games! Thanks, Kyle!
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Steve Diamond
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Kyle,

Thanks for the further clarification ... that's why I asked where this appears in the specific rules. Are there official WIZKIDS errata or rules clarifications ("official rulings")? I have other questions and I don't want to keep pinging the message boards, if I can just look it up myself.

And thanks for your 2nd post confirming what I thought I knew about Magic Blast. Range attacks special effects are turned off if you cannot legally perform a ranged attack (except for healing, how interesting).

Thanks again,

Steve
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Steve Diamond
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Yes, thanks Jeff... I'm reading through the same "fan updated" rules, too.
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Kyle W.
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diamondz123 wrote:
Are there official WIZKIDS errata or rules clarifications ("official rulings")?
Ever since the old Wizkids site disappeared I don't know if there is a good source for the errata anymore, other than trying to dig it up using something like web.archive.org

As far as rules go, your safest bet is to use the Ibson the Grey edition that ScottE uploaded here to BGG a few years ago - it incorporates most, if not all, of the errata that has come up over the years.


I can't speak for anyone else, but I like seeing lots more activity on the forums for this game, so don't worry about posting a bunch of questions - in fact, keep 'em coming! meeple
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