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Subject: If you were starting all over . . . rss

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Robert Stuart
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If I knew what I know now, I would start with D-Day (first edition) and with The Battle of the Bulge. These two games would teach me the basics of defense -- conducting a fighting withdrawal -- and of offense -- dismantling and breaking a defense. They would also teach me the basics of applying fundamental military strategy in a wargame. Level 1: concentration of force, operating on interior lines, putting the enemy on the 'horns of a dilemma'. Level 2: applying Hart's 'indirect approach' in a replayable game with rules which can be quickly learned and with mechanics the basics of which can be quickly mastered.

From there, I would jump to some of the excellent, recent games (ie, post-2000).

For tactical games, I would start with Band of Brothers: Screaming Eagles (squad level) and Panzer Grenadier: Elsenborn Ridge (platoon level), and progress from there.

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Andy Daglish
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Garfink wrote:
I still don't own Case Blue & DAK II.... I am dying to get my grubby hands on the latter...


You can never have too many copies of DAK II.
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Eric Lai
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aforandy wrote:
Garfink wrote:
I still don't own Case Blue & DAK II.... I am dying to get my grubby hands on the latter...


You can never have too many copies of DAK II.


I am taking that as a hint from you that you've an extra copy(ies) that you are willing to sell to me a cost... I am expecting a geekmail sometime soon... goo
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Andy Daglish
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Garfink wrote:
I am taking that as a hint from you that you've an extra copy(ies) that you are willing to sell to me a cost... I am expecting a geekmail sometime soon... goo


NO...its just one of those mad statements that when you say it to gamers you must hit the right level of piety.

Was it Hitler who said "I don't give a fig about Africa"? [Yes]. So they did a regiment-level game.
In the 70s this gamer agreed to command a reserve division in a play-by-mail game of CNA. Several years later he was called in the middle of the night, because there'd been a breakthrough and he had to write some orders.
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Eric Lai
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aforandy wrote:
Garfink wrote:
I am taking that as a hint from you that you've an extra copy(ies) that you are willing to sell to me a cost... I am expecting a geekmail sometime soon... goo


NO...its just one of those mad statements that when you say it to gamers you must hit the right level of piety.

Was it Hitler who said "I don't give a fig about Africa"? [Yes]. So they did a regiment-level game.
In the 70s this gamer agreed to command a reserve division in a play-by-mail game of CNA. Several years later he was called in the middle of the night, because there'd been a breakthrough and he had to write some orders.


You can joke about anything.. but you can't joke around with extra copies of DAK and my feelings okay... (now that's piety.)
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Edmund Hon
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Garfink wrote:
Put my life savings into Apple stocks in the late 80s... Then I could buy Case Blue on a whimsy.


If you did that then you could buy a house large enough to play Case Blue on a whimsy! With a second table on the side where you can set up DAK at the same time!

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

If I were to start again, with only what was available on the market when I started the first time (early 1980s):
La Bataille d'Austerlitz
Air Force
Squad Leader

Alternatively, with what is available now:
La Bataille des Quatre Bras
Whistling Death
Valor & Victory
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Dan Stueber
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If I had a chance to do it all over again I would buy War in Europe. Then I would know exactly how big of a house I should get when older to be able to play these ginormous games!

As a side note, if I could do it over again I would buy every game that I even thought I might like. I don't know how many times I have read an article about a game I looked at years ago but didn't buy. Then I think to myself, " Why didn't I buy that game???"

A couple I actually had in my hands that I didn't buy are:
The Civil War
Breakout: Normandy
Cityfight: Modern Combat in the Urban Environment
The Korean War

Dan Stueber
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Jared Wilson
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Well, my first game that I ever bought and played was Starship Troopers, but I wouldn't go with that today. It's a good game for sure, but I'd want something that would be easier to play solitaire.

I think if I were starting over, I'd want a game that I could really sink my teeth into. I remember playing the heck out of my copy of B-17: Queen of the Skies because I didn't have much else.

I'd probably go with one of these if I had to do it all over again:

Tokyo Express

Carrier

Fields of Fire

The Great Battles of Alexander: Deluxe Edition

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Andy Beaton
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Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1. It's a system that can grow along with you.
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p55carroll
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Games are not movies or stories; they're vehicles for creative decision making.
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"Desire makes everything blossom; possession makes everything wither and fade." (Marcel Proust)
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I'm finding the replies interesting, as I'm getting something I didn't expect: many different reasons for wargaming.

Some would get into games that would impress their gaming group; others would focus on solitaire wargames. Some would choose the games they can learn the most from about military science/art/history; others would just pick the games they've had the most fun with. Then there are those who look for some kind of investment opportunity.

And there are probably all kinds of overlaps and other reasons too.
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Scott Beaudway
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I may still have bought Tactics II as I was new to wargaming. But I wish I had bought some AH classics such as The Longest Day, The Russian Campain and Panzerblitz. Iwould have never bought any ASL and rather stayed woth Squad Leader and also bought COI. But you can never go back....
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p55carroll
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Games are not movies or stories; they're vehicles for creative decision making.
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SBeaudway wrote:
But you can never go back....

No, but you can start all over. And that's what this thread was supposed to be about--I think.
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Jared Wilson
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Ok, I just played two turns of Phantom Fury, and it's a very, very good game. Keep in mind that I've only just started the game, but I really like it.

I would add Phantom Fury to my list of games above, that I would get if I was starting all over again.
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Warren Bruhn
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Taskforce 58 wrote:
Garfink wrote:
Put my life savings into Apple stocks in the late 80s... Then I could buy Case Blue on a whimsy.


If you did that then you could buy a house large enough to play Case Blue on a whimsy! With a second table on the side where you can set up DAK at the same time!


He probably could if he lived in some cheap and spacious part of North America. But Garfink lives in crowded Hong Kong. It must be difficult to obtain gaming space there.
 
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Warren Bruhn
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SBeaudway wrote:
I would have never bought any ASL and rather stayed woth Squad Leader and also bought COI. But you can never go back....


Are you sure? I just picked up unpunched copies of Squad Leader and Cross of Iron, both together for the grand sum of $25 US. Considering that ASL collectors have to hunt on the pre-owned market for all the out of print stuff that they want, it might be just as viable a plan to go after the old pre-ASL stuff instead. Cross of Iron was definately a sweet spot for that whole system, and between SL & CoI there was so much stuff in the boxes that one could play for years. Could definately use more maps though....
 
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Mt Crawford
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If I had to pick just one, then it would really have to be...
Deluxe SPQR

EDIT - I'd consider a Musket & Pike GMT series or La Bat (or same system in WAS/7YW like Fontenoy) series game along side that, because I find those very enjoyable also, but there is not one title that just covers either of those whole periods (ie a lot of the battles I'd like to play) well enough for me to pick it along this.
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Paul Cornelissen
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licinius wrote:
IF the question was, right now, what would be my first new wargame ever (I suppose that I never played any before), then I would have to chose:

Memoir '44

Having just played through 3 games of Commands & Colors: Ancients, I can't argue with this suggestion either. Getting into war gaming with a proven, sub-$40 entry point like this is great advice. Even BattleLore would be a good choice, depending on your preference of theme.
 
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Art Bugorski
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Wargames » Forums » General
Re: If you were starting all over . . .
My $0.02 is that to the contrary of what detractors say Memoir '44 (especially with expansions) is every inch the wargame that Commands & Colors: Ancients is. The complexity of combat has been replaced with complexity in maps with more terrain allowing for more tactical maneuvering. Also, since the complexity comes from the terrain it is, IMHO, much more intuitive so its actually easier to learn. The available online scenarios mean that its value is actually second to none.

The components are nice, and can be painted to look better than any other games.

That said, personally I find the whole C&C (the parent of M'44, Ancients, Battle Cry, and Napoleonics) system a little light for the amount of chaos and would suggest Conflict of Heroes. Also, the M'44 maps can take a little time to setup, like upto 20 minutes once you have all the tiles from all the expansions mixed together.
 
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