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So, I've been working on this game for a while now, but it took a kind of radical turn, so I figured some outside thoughts were in order.

The whole point of me designing a game was the fact that there just aren't that many games that both don't take 3 hours and support more than 6 players, and those seem to be the things our group wants. So I thought it through and came up with a bunch of ideas how to deal with having so many players. This is the first game I'm trying to work out based on that.

The original game had most of the same pieces and rules, but was very subtle. In play testing it was hard to get new players to be able to plan ahead far enough to make strategy interesting, and to be honest there just weren't enough interesting moments. There were also some issues that caused parts of the games I thought should move quickly to move quite slowly.

So I've tried to fix that with some major rules tweaks. I added some far more powerful abilities, and introduced a sort of currency mechanic.

Here are the new rules, and most of the print and play components, save some poker chips to use as "Bots".

Incidentally, does anyone use self adhesive foam for prototypes? I used it in making mine, and it seemed a whole heck of a lot easier than the methods I've seen mentioned. I'm no pro at this though.

Anyways, thanks in advance for your thoughts.

-------------Edit-------------

The newest rules can be found here and the newest component sheets can be found here.
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Sam Phillips Beckerman
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
what are you sticking the foam to?
what shapes?
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Which one is the processor?
 
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Never mind, it's got to be the one on the right in the center row--it's the only unique tile.
 
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
And the tokens are the ones under the bots, right?
 
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Sorry about that. When I changed the rule sheet I forgot about the bit that tells you what's what. In a previous version I had a bunch of examples showing how movement worked on that page, but it's much simplified now, so I just deleted the page. Completely forgot about the descriptions. It's been added back now. I switched the link in the original post, but here it is again.

kurthl33t wrote:
And the tokens are the ones under the bots, right?

The tokens are the eight squares above and below the processor. They're basically just chits or little cubes or whatever. I had the space so i stuck them on there. The bots are not included in the print files. You're supposed to have two per player. I used poker chips in early testing.
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Nate K
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Ah, okay, interesting. I was assuming that the "Man in the Middle" tiles were cute little bots. My mistake.
 
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Yeah, when I put my prototype together I used poker chips for bots at first, and when I started testing with more players I used some wood circles I painted.

I hadn't really thought about a bot design. It's all pretty preliminary at this point. If the game ever actually works properly and gets tested enough I'll probably go through and do decent art. Here's kind of a slapped together file in case someone needs to print bots. For some reason it doesn't want to work on google docs but if I download it it looks fine? It gets the idea across I guess.

I'm not sure anyone will actually print this and play it so it probably doesn't matter, but I wasn't sure if I should but those or the tokens in the file. Personally, I was able to scrounge up poker chips to use as bots easier. Maybe I should put the bots in the file instead though?
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
So, after some more playtesting, I think I might streamline the rules a little bit. Here are the newer rules. Sorry I didn't put them in the PDF yet, but I figured i'd get some thoughts before I went through the trouble.

I was aiming to lower the number of actions, and make setup a little less daunting. Now instead of two setup phases, there is just one. I got rid of some actions that never really got used too. I made the special actions more expensive, because it was a bit too easy before. I also got rid of a few issues with some of the special actions, like not being able to get rid of the network spike, and man in the middle being a little game breaking.

What does everyone think of the theme so far? I mean, it's kind of lightly applied as is right now because i'm not terribly in love with it, but i'm having trouble thinking of another.

Thanks.
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Andreas Krüger
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Sam Houston wrote:
what are you sticking the foam to?
what shapes?


The game needs tiles and flat pawns, so the foam would be used to mount them.
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Andreas Krüger
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Interesting game concept. A little bit too abstract for my taste. Maybe something that could finally be published by Nestorgames, once the development is finished. If it scales well, it could be split into two four-player-packs to reduce production costs.
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Interesting game concept. A little bit too abstract for my taste.

Well, I was hoping to get the theme more involved once playtesting is done. Although theme is something i'm kind of struggling with at the moment.

Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Maybe something that could finally be published by Nestorgames, once the development is finished. If it scales well, it could be split into two four-player-packs to reduce production costs.

Yeah, in theory i guess you could split it into two packs. Heck, with slightly modified rules i'd love to test 12 players. That's getting ahead of myself though. I'd just be happy if someone wanted to play it.
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Andreas Krüger
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Sure, why not. Ligretto can be bought in different colored packs for four players, which can then be combined. I think they have at least four different packs, although I would not play it with even more than four players anyway.
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
More changes after more playtesting. Here's the new doc. This one has Bots instead of tokens, since it seems maybe more people would have a lot of different chits or whatever to use.

Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Sure, why not. Ligretto can be bought in different colored packs for four players, which can then be combined. I think they have at least four different packs, although I would not play it with even more than four players anyway.

Why not? From what I saw it looked like a game we play all the time called Nerts. I've played games of it with over 12 players and it works fine.
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Andreas Krüger
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
cwarts wrote:

Thamos von Nostria wrote:
Sure, why not. Ligretto can be bought in different colored packs for four players, which can then be combined. I think they have at least four different packs, although I would not play it with even more than four players anyway.

Why not? From what I saw it looked like a game we play all the time called Nerts. I've played games of it with over 12 players and it works fine.


I just think that it get more solitaire-ish with more players involved, because you cannot watch what so many players are doing, so you concentrate even more on yourself and interaction occurs only with the players right next to you. But the game should work just fine.
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
That seems odd. For us the game becomes far more frantic and interactive as the number of players increases. Perhaps it's some difference in the rules we're using. Or maybe just our style of play.

I'll have to look that over more and think about it, it seems like a really interesting difference.

Edit: almost forgot! New PDF with minor edits from solo playtesting. Hopefully i'll get a couple people in on another real playtest this weekend.
 
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Andreas Krüger
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Maybe it is just my personal incompetence to handle that much input :-). But since the possible number of players is probably the only similarity between the games, we should not discuss that further.
 
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Scott Nelson
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
I think some gameplay is needed. A round or two explaining how stuff is done. The memory usage isn't mentioned except on the special tiles, but I can't see where it is mentioned on how to gather memory or if you start with some each turn. I only saw one pdf, and 2 pages of rules, sideways, until I downloaded it and twisted it - still not liking google docs, but I am a minority there.

So, for me to get a feel of how this game plays, a good explanantion of how a turn would go, would be helpful/needed.
 
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Re: WIP - Some kinda computer game?
Yeah, i'm pretty much terrible at writing out rules. Memory is a sort of recently added concept. It replaced "pay tiles off the board" as sort of a short hand in the rules. You don't ever gather memory as a currency or start with any. You simply take the tiles off the board when you need to pay.

The rules are in plain text here. I'll go back and edit the first post to make things a bit more clear.

As for example game might go something like this:
(I only played this out in my head so some of the numbers might come out wrong, but it should be close.)

Quote:
The first few turns are going to be simply placing tiles (Action 1). Eventually somone will decide to place their processor and the game proper will start.

Let's say red was playing very offensively and blue was playing defensively. Red would have been the one to place the processor first so he could get a jump start on working his way through blue's defenses and so blue wouldn't have much time to create a vast defensive structure. Blue, in an attempt to use the time it will take red to get to him has placed his processor in a fairly open position.

Blue spends his next turn defending the open positions on his processor with tiles, and places a bot. Red places a bot and moves it to the internet.

Blue uses his network tile to go to the internet, then moves onto red's network. It would have been faster and cheaper for blue to move through his own tiles, but he wanted to take a chance on getting a good tile from his bag, as the ones in his hand weren't working for him. Red moves into blue's tiles, but after paying through a Whitelist tile he has to stop on a firewall. He also doesn't have many tiles to pay to get back through. Meanwhile the Yellow player has just been playing tiles from his hand and is now out.

Blue's gamble paid off and he now has another network tile. Blue puts his network tile near red's processor so he can get away quickly, and puts out another Bot so he can try and bump off red's token as he's trying to get away. Red sees this and decides to take another approach, putting another bot on the board and moving it toward yellow. Yellow puts two bots on the board.

Blue now moves into red's processor in one move and gains a token in a second. Red moves his bot toward yellow, but yellow's network is full of stuff seeing as he kept laying it out. Yellow now takes his bots and moves them both through an odd path, but they are now both on man in the middle tiles.

Blue realises his situation is not good - he has a bot close to his processor. His bot with the token is safe, so he moves his bot near his processor past his own whitelist. Red now moves in on blue, using his bot from much earlier, and takes a token. Yellow decides to only swap one of his bots - with blue. The other he moves to a network tile.

Blue uses the netowork tile and goes back to his own base, but all his useless tiles are now gone - anything more he has to pay will hurt him defensively. Fortunately, yellow's man in the middle move has left him inside of yellow's defenses. Blue lays down some junk tiles. Red never had any defenses, so he hops onto blue's netowrk tile and uses blue's own tiles against him, going straight to the network tile right beside his processor. Yellow pays to do the same thing, and is now right beside red. He also moves back through blue's defenses, having lots of tiles to pay through his whitelist.

Blue could finally gain his red token, but knows yellow is going to win fast if he can get both his tokens through the network tiles, so blue grabs yellow's token and starts to head back toward the network tile. Red takes blue's token, then turns his attention toward his bot on yellow. He's finally able to move in on yellow's processor. Yellow takes a token from blue as expected, but in a surprise move plays a network spike. But he plays it on himself, and pays with the network tile blue was headed for. Now his processor is easily accessible from the internet.

Blue looks at yellow's tangled mess of lines and sees an opening. Placing a corner where the network tile was, he's able to snake through with the new network spike, and is at the internet in a single move. Red is able to do the same, but is also able to move into his own network. Yellow can't think of a way to get either of them, and so moves his pieces toward the internet.

The next turn, blue hops through his own whitelist with yellow's token and wins the game.


That should give you kind of a rough idea of how a game might go. If you need specific rules explained in further detail by all means ask away.
 
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Scott Nelson
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These tokens are placed when? Or are they the cubes?
And the payment is done through removing tiles of your own that are in play? Or the 16 tiles in front of each player are placed back. I doubt this one, but I have to make sure.

So "bots" can move on top of other tiles, do you have to care what is beneath them? should the bot be a smaller tilesize? or maybe just a round wooden token if I have one (which I do)?
I take it the bot should be not squarely cut out like the rest to show this; just noticed they were smaller non-square pieces.

Is there a small exmaple of exactly 1 player's turn, and how they pay for stuff to move somewhere, and place tiles?

What does a denial of service look like? I mean I could ping you one, but in the game what does it look like?
 
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BoardGameGeek » Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design
Re: [WIP] Project 1 - An 8 player set collection game with tile laying mechanic
ropearoni4 wrote:
These tokens are placed when? Or are they the cubes?

The tokens are cubes or chits in the player's color. From section 5-1, "When a Bot reaches an opponent's processor, it can take on a token. The Bot then carries the token." Basically, when a bot reaches another player's processor tile, you place a token cube on top of the bot. Kind of like kinging in checkers.

ropearoni4 wrote:
And the payment is done through removing tiles of your own that are in play? Or the 16 tiles in front of each player are placed back. I doubt this one, but I have to make sure.

There are three sort of areas in the game. Each player has some face up tiles in front of them - this is their hand. The internet tiles placed in setup and any tiles connected to them are called the board. Everything else a player has is kept in their bag. When you use the Place Tiles action, you move the tiles from your hand to the board. When you pay for using special tile actions, you take some of your tiles off the board and put them in your bag, then you draw the same number of tiles back out of your bag at random and put them in your hand. That way, there are always 16 tiles in the bag, and 16 plus the processor outside the bag.

ropearoni4 wrote:
So "bots" can move on top of other tiles, do you have to care what is beneath them? should the bot be a smaller tilesize? or maybe just a round wooden token if I have one (which I do)?
I take it the bot should be not squarely cut out like the rest to show this; just noticed they were smaller non-square pieces.

The round guys above and below the processor are some bot stickers i made up, but i haven't used them for my prototype. I just use some colored round wooden disks. Seeing underneath isn't really completely necessary.

ropearoni4 wrote:
Is there a small exmaple of exactly 1 player's turn, and how they pay for stuff to move somewhere, and place tiles?

How about this?


ropearoni4 wrote:
What does a denial of service look like? I mean I could ping you one, but in the game what does it look like?

DoS tiles were taken out a couple tests ago. They shouldn't be anywhere. Did I miss a spot?
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Scott Nelson
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Yes, very helpful.

I see one point the blue player removing the tiles to pay for something, and it is removed from their part of board, so that explains that very well.

Yes, the Denial of Service is mentioned in the rules. Guess I won't worry about that.

If I see anything else, I'll let you know, maybe directly in a geekmail, instead of flooding this thread with it.

Scott
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