$10.00
Recommend
10 
 Thumb up
 Hide
31 Posts
Prev «  1 , 2  | 

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design

Subject: Telegraphing and feinting rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Sam Mercer
United Kingdom
Southampton
Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
Spy game. Done. Done forever.

spy game in which there is one bit where a player can pay a certain amount of resources and then put tokens (cards?) in the reserve area (as they build up their forces as you say) face down.

The other player (if they can - special card / player power / standard action?) has the opportunity to pay the amount of resource that the first player spent PLUS X (doubled? Plus 1? Plus 4?) in order to take over the card - this card would then be in the second players control - basically a spy style "Ill pay double whatever he's paying...". BUT then there are ALSO trap cards that if one player pays the amount to take them over, they flip the card "Bad Info" or "Double Bluff" or "We've been set up!" - so they lose their payment entirely and the first player gets it back, or something minor or negative happens to them (booby trap or something? secret police set up) or seomthing?

Perhaps even the second player needs to play a face down card as well as paying "double whatever he's paying you" to the card, in which case that card can be a DOUBLE bluff - eg:

Player 1: I play a face-down character card with 5 resource on it
Player 2: Hmm....I think that I will have that card! I saw you draw the "Swedish Mafia" a few turns back and they cost 5 resources to play, I think you are playing them, I am going to try and own them. I will therfore pay 10 resources and my facedown "special direction" card.
--Result--
Character Card is flipped: It is indeed the Swedish Mafia and Player 2 now controls this card - he flips his special direction card, it is "Bring back what you find" - which is put together with the newly controled Character card which means that the Swedish Mafia automatically gives back 3 resources when it is next activated


OR


Player 1: I play a face-down character card with 5 resource on it
Player 2: Hmm....I think that I will have that card! I saw you draw the "Swedish Mafia" a few turns back and they cost 5 resources to play, I am going to try and own them. I will therfore pay 10 resources and my facedown "special direction" card.
--Result--
Character Card is flipped: "We've been set up!" which reads "Any attempt to take over this card is denied.The player who played this card gains all resources that were played on this card and attached to the take-over transaction"


OR


Player 1: I play a face-down character card with 5 resource on it
Player 2: Hmm....I think that I will have that card! I saw you draw the "Swedish Mafia" a few turns back and they cost 5 resources to play, I am going to try and own them. I will therfore pay 10 resources and my facedown "special direction" card.
--Result--
Character Card is flipped: "We've been set up!" which reads "Any attempt to take over this card is denied.The player who played this card gains all resources that were played on this card and attached to the take-over transaction" Player 2 flips his special direction card "We knew the whole time..." which reads "When this special direction card it played trying to take over a character card and the caharacter card is "We've been set up" - then the player who played this card may take back all resource and gain all resource played by the previous player"


and I mean, you could go further and further in: "WE MUST GO DEEPER" hehe. Man I like the sound of this a lot...like a lot lot... Let's make this damned game!


davidf wrote:
Cogentesque wrote:
I would be really happy to play a game that really heavily uses this kind of mechanic as opposed to involving it in a slight manner.

Duelling/fighting games like Yomi and Waving Hands definitely focus on it. I'm still wondering how much it could be used in a non-combat game.

Cogentesque wrote:
I would be happy to help you out / collaborate / see a game be made that really involves this kind of thing.

Thanks!

Cogentesque wrote:
What theme?

That is the question.

o Fencing, boxing, wrestling ...
o Basketball, football ...
o Space battle (ship vs ship).
o Abstracted war game - making formations.
o Variation on a space battle: your main computer is down, and you need to manually reroute functions to activate weapons, shields, thrusters, etc.
o Stock market - limited information + influence on what is about to happen
o Intelligent viruses vying for control over a body (fighting the immune system & competing with each other)
o "Misdirection" could be an interesting name for a spy game. Laying false trails among true ones? Not sure how it would really work though.

I'm sure there are lots more.

Another idea about mechanics: assuming a game with cards, I kind of like the idea of a powerful card (that perhaps you pay for - though your opponent doesn't know what it is until it is played) that you hold in reserve until just the right moment. As opposed to burning through cards constantly. (Perhaps the card permanently gives you an ability, but maybe at the cost of making other actions more difficult or costly).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justus
United States
Las Vegas
Nevada
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
If you are looking for multi-player bluffing and feinting then Conspiracy seems to be the perfect fit for what you're looking for. In fact I'm not sure how to describe this game other than to say that the game is ALL about bluffing and feinting while slowly moving the briefcase into your headquarters (the win condition).

Its an older game, but with a simple abstract board, only 9 pieces (8 characters and one briefcase) in the game, and four pads of paper (to keep track of spending) it would be insanely easy to do a DIY version of the game.

BTW the twin skills of bluffing and feinting are completely non existant in my world and I wouldn't be surprised if I don't win a game of it for a very long time -- but I absolutely love this game.

I don't know if there are rules online, but if you run into any trouble with the rules or wrapping the game around your head, GM me and I'll help you out. I think its a criminally underrated game.

edit: I just re-read your OP and I think you have almost perfectly described the underlying concept behind Conspiracy, you really need to check it out before going too far in reinventing the wheel.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Fisher
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for all the thoughts and game references ... lots of possibilities here.

For now I'm having a look at fencing; I'll update some more when I get somewhere. I would encourage
Sam Mercer
United Kingdom
Southampton
Hampshire
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
to continue with his spy game idea!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Nagato Fujibayashi

Athens
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Strike of the Eagle has an order placing mechanism which allows a lot of bluffing and feinting. It's a very important element of the game.

Excellent thread. Hiding your intentions from your opponent is one of the most fundamental principles of strategic thinking. In martial arts its considered to be a high level attitude to study and develop- projecting A and executing B.

Not many games create an environment where such techniques can be used unfortunately. That's why I still play chess every now and then. Nothing like the classics. The amazing thing with chess is that it allows feints while being a perfect information game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Green
England
Horsham
West Sussex
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Thread necromancy.

This one is quite close to my heart as I am rapidly developing a love for tactical fencing theory. first off, I would recommend reading a book called Epee 2.0 by Johan Haremburg, a Swedish superman who rocked epee fencing in the late 1970s with a new way of dealing with pre-conceived ideas about what makes a successful competition fencer.

I have a fencing game on one of my increasing number of back-burners. My approach, roughly, involves the following:

Variable hidden player statistics decided at the start of the game for speed, skill and stamina based on a central pool. Working on the principal that it's best to be roughly evenly matched in a card game (rather than in real life where the pool from which the statistics are drawn is far from balanced) there should be advantages in being very skilled, fast or robust when choosing how you wish to fence.

-Every move costs energy. With a high stamina you have more of it.

-Every move has a skill level required to execute it, if you haven't got the skill- you can't pull it off. If you are tired, you probably can't either.

-The speed at which you can close the distance between you and the opponent is critical for attacks when your opponent is out of place and equally important if you find yourself out of place in that going backwards, fast, is useful.

Feinting directly or indirectly by misrepresenting your skill/stamina/speed should be interesting. Fencing is essentially about conservation of energy and executing a perfect move preferably when the opponent gives you the opportunity to do so. epee fencing is just better for translation into a card game as you don't have to worry about 'right of way' to attack.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Fisher
Australia
Sydney
NSW
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
BoardGameGeek » Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design
Re: Telegraphing and feinting
mgreen02 wrote:
First off, I would recommend reading a book called Epee 2.0 by Johan Haremburg

Interesting ideas (just from reading the reviews & looking at the extract on Amazon) -- steering your opponent into what you do best.

mgreen02 wrote:
I have a fencing game on one of my increasing number of back-burners.

Sound great. I'm taking a slightly less realistic approach (part fencing, part Hollywood), but it could all change.

I've identified about 50 states the players could be in, but I'm not sure how to present them in the game. A board that looks like a big flow chart could be kind of messy, but at least it would let players see what is coming up, which putting each state on a separate card would not.

This approach might not really work; I'll see what happens.

mgreen02 wrote:
Feinting directly or indirectly by misrepresenting your skill/stamina/speed should be interesting.

Yep, that seems pretty important ... luring your opponent into trying to take advantage of your apparent weakness, while preparing a counter move for when they do so.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Prev «  1 , 2  | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.