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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: FAQ is out rss

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Michael D. Kelley
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I don't own the game, but have borrowed my friend Peter's copy and played several times. He was about ready to trade the game away, saying he did not enjoy it and that the winner was totally random (he's a huge fan of blood bowl, by the way).

When I told him about the FAQ change, he suddenly said "oh yeah, that's why I didn't like it before. The staff cards always seemed to decide who won."

Suddenly he wants his copy back, and is pretty sure he will enjoy every minute of it with the change in the FAQ.

Just a small anecdote
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Kester J
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The description of the removal of those cards earlier in the thread as "surgery with dynamite" does seem quite apt, but I'm glad they've done it: those cards did skew the game quite a bit.

I wonder if this maybe represents a bit of a change in heart for FFG too? My impression of their previous FAQs has been that they tend towards sticking to the rules as written, even if it causes balance issues - unless it completely breaks the game, of course. This one is quite a significant rewrite of parts of the game - more akin to a computer game patch than a board game FAQ.

Finally, I've posted this before, but I thought I'd post it again because I felt it worked quite nicely when I tried it. For those who don't want to ditch those staff upgrades entirely, but do feel they're a bit too powerful, try this: instead of giving points at the end of the game, they give a point each time you gain an upgrade of the relevant type in future. This fixes the "last turn windfall" problem, and stops the points from being hidden so it's clear who is ahead. Those upgrades are still strong, and I still doubt I'd pass them up most of the time, but it does tone them down a bit.
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Chris D
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Blood Bowl: Team Manager – The Card Game » Forums » Rules
Re: FAQ is out
I haven't played it THAT much, and haven't found those cards to be an impossible problem per se, but I noticed expecially playing in two that sometimes a player can take the lead early and for the other becomes impossible to keep up, and those cards make it worse. It is part of the chaotic and random nature of the game (hate it or love it), but still. Playing without those will shift the focus on different payouts.

I think that the solution, if a bit drastic, is good enough.

Also I really like the (much needed) errata on the Dwarf Team Upgrade, simple and elegant. I hope they will p0ut a replacement in a future expansion, though.

I won't get into the whole "they should have thought about it before"... ninja
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Mark Johnson
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Well, I've played 4 games before the FAQ and 1 game after. My feelings are that yes those upgrades are really good almost to the point of being OP but Having them all removed made the game feel completely different and not really in a good way. Just for clarity about bias, of the 4 games before the FAQ I won 2. I didn't focus on those cards as a winning strategy while some other players did. I won the game after the FAQ so it's not 'I dislike it due to sour grapes over losing.'

How I felt the game changed with the FAQ and why I didn't like it.

I personally like games where people don't know exactly who is in the lead due to end game scoring opportunities. If you prefer more deterministic scoring and being able to try and 'gang-up on the leader' then I can understand why some might prefer the game as-is with the FAQ changes. I also didn't like that it sort of made it feel a bit less appealing to acquire staff upgrades. I think the worst aspect of the FAQ change is that going for matches with Star Players is not that useful in the final round if you're playing without those staff upgrades. There are some hedge cases but overall it's just not very appealing.

I think I will end up putting them back in the game but putting a cap on the number of points these cards can acquire. I definitely don't think they should be able to accumulate more points than winning the Blood Bowl... right now a 6 point cap seems like what I may try in my next game. Either that or I'll add in all of the cards minus the duplicate copies of Talent Scout and Staffing Office or players may not have duplicate copies of Staff Upgrades.
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Steven Albano
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Sigh.

Was the Rigorous Training really that bad?

It's just weird that now the card has such a completely different way to play it than before.

I'm assuming there is no way to get a replacement for it because until that way, I'll just play it as is. No use in writing on it or whatever.
 
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Yours Truly,
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There must have been a moment at the beginning, where we could have said no. Somehow we missed it. Well, we'll know better next time.
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colormage1 wrote:
Sigh.

Was the Rigorous Training really that bad?

It's just weird that now the card has such a completely different way to play it than before.



It depends on how valuable your opponents think "sprinting" is (since that's essentially what it allows you to do). In my last game, it was pretty useless, I got to use it a total of once the whole game (playing pre-FAQ rules). My opponents didn't want to let me sprint, so they just attacked my guards on match-ups where there was only one guard, the guard would get downed and I wouldn't be able to use Rigorous Training.

It's not a COMPLETELY different way to play it. If your guard is using its take-the-hit ability it's getting downed, so you get to use it. You just also get to use it if it's getting downed without using the ability, so your opponents can't screw you out of getting the sprint.
 
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Rob Robinson
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colormage1 wrote:
Sigh.I'm assuming there is no way to get a replacement for it because until that way, I'll just play it as is. No use in writing on it or whatever.


If you sleeve your cards, an easy option is to slide this in:



PDF Available here.
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Steven Albano
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That is fantastic and definitely what I will use.

=)
 
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Dave Kudzma
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Windopaene wrote:
kryyst wrote:
I think removing the cards will definitely lower some of the last minute luck wins, which will make the game more competitive as you can't just throw away your turns to rely on a few key staff cards.

But I might try the variant where you can't play multiples of the same types of those cards. Could be a happy medium.


Yep. I can see how having one of them, if you draw it early, can lead you to make further game decisions influenced towards that condition, which is pretty neat. But getting two of them as the game is ending to pick up 10-20 free points is whacked, and has happened in about a third of my games of this...


I've played 6 times and while it's a relatively small sample size (so to speak) I've lost EVERY game due to those cards. My first 3 plays I was a large number of points behind for not getting as many as the other players.

They DO make a significant difference. Perhaps after playing a larger number of times the occurrences equal out but I can tell you that in all of those games had these cards been excluded all the victories would be clear cut. I think this is in essence the point of the errata; not every one cares for such a big variable. It's obvious from this thread that experiences and preferences vary wildly. Personally I'm glad this errata was created.
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Mark Johnson
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I just played another game tonight. After having played with the FAQ changes we wanted the cards back in there, perhaps with some sort of variant. I decided that we would put them back in but no one can have duplicates of any of the staff upgrade cards. Well, there was a skilled player who focused on these and ended up getting 30 fans in the end game through staff upgrades. To be fair, she did make concessions of not going after as many of the highlights with fans but I'm thinking it's not the solution after all. I still want to leave them in but there should probably be some sort of point cap on these cards. My initial thoughts are 6 or 8. Probably 6 if we're allowing people to get duplicates. Then again, maybe I'll just go back to removing them.
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Darian Tucker
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Eeeville wrote:
I just played another game tonight. After having played with the FAQ changes we wanted the cards back in there, perhaps with some sort of variant. I decided that we would put them back in but no one can have duplicates of any of the staff upgrade cards. Well, there was a skilled player who focused on these and ended up getting 30 fans in the end game through staff upgrades. To be fair, she did make concessions of not going after as many of the highlights with fans but I'm thinking it's not the solution after all. I still want to leave them in but there should probably be some sort of point cap on these cards. My initial thoughts are 6 or 8. Probably 6 if we're allowing people to get duplicates. Then again, maybe I'll just go back to removing them.


If you have to limit them because they're imbalanced, it's better to just leave them out entirely.
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SparkingConduit wrote:
Eeeville wrote:
I just played another game tonight. After having played with the FAQ changes we wanted the cards back in there, perhaps with some sort of variant. I decided that we would put them back in but no one can have duplicates of any of the staff upgrade cards. Well, there was a skilled player who focused on these and ended up getting 30 fans in the end game through staff upgrades. To be fair, she did make concessions of not going after as many of the highlights with fans but I'm thinking it's not the solution after all. I still want to leave them in but there should probably be some sort of point cap on these cards. My initial thoughts are 6 or 8. Probably 6 if we're allowing people to get duplicates. Then again, maybe I'll just go back to removing them.


If you have to limit them because they're imbalanced, it's better to just leave them out entirely.


Why? If the game is more fun with the cards in, then why leave them out. I think limiting them to one per player should be fine. You also have to be aware of what the other players are doing. If you allow them to get a ton of staff upgrades, then you can't complain about imbalance when they win because of all their staff upgrades.
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Darian Tucker
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willythesnitch wrote:
SparkingConduit wrote:
Eeeville wrote:
I just played another game tonight. After having played with the FAQ changes we wanted the cards back in there, perhaps with some sort of variant. I decided that we would put them back in but no one can have duplicates of any of the staff upgrade cards. Well, there was a skilled player who focused on these and ended up getting 30 fans in the end game through staff upgrades. To be fair, she did make concessions of not going after as many of the highlights with fans but I'm thinking it's not the solution after all. I still want to leave them in but there should probably be some sort of point cap on these cards. My initial thoughts are 6 or 8. Probably 6 if we're allowing people to get duplicates. Then again, maybe I'll just go back to removing them.


If you have to limit them because they're imbalanced, it's better to just leave them out entirely.


Why? If the game is more fun with the cards in, then why leave them out. I think limiting them to one per player should be fine. You also have to be aware of what the other players are doing. If you allow them to get a ton of staff upgrades, then you can't complain about imbalance when they win because of all their staff upgrades.


I would argue you can't have it both ways. If you try to tell people that they can't have more than one Staff Upgrade of this type, what do you do if they draw one? Throw it out? Assign it to a different player? Reshuffle and redraw? Its just too much of a headache for very little gain. It's better to just leave them out because it makes matchups with other payouts more enticing.
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Frank La Terra
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If you get a duplicate bad luck. Should have targeted another reward type.
There, fixed with no headaches.
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
If you get a duplicate bad luck. Should have targeted another reward type.
There, fixed with no headaches.


I like that, it does add to the risk/gamble factor of going for that reward type, so it actually balances it a bit.
 
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Blue Jackal
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SparkingConduit wrote:

If you try to tell people that they can't have more than one Staff Upgrade of this type, what do you do if they draw one? Throw it out? Assign it to a different player? Reshuffle and redraw? Its just too much of a headache for very little gain.


If you draw a duplicate, discard and draw a new card. If you win a draw 2, keep 1 or draw 3, keep 1 reward, you're going to have to put the other cards on the bottom of the pile anyways. Draw and discard is built into the rules of the game.
 
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Chris G
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Took a little while for this game to get back to the table since the faq came out. But finally got around to playing it on the weekend. The faq changes definitely make the game tighter. I think it's much improved this way. You need to play more strategically now then before because gaining fans from winning is far more significant then the wild swings you used to be able to get before.

We played 3, 3 player games and in every one I'd say at most there was a 7 pt spread between 1st and last. Love this game.
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Pauli Vinni
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Heh. We have a game where one player did get a card that gice 2 fan everytime he loses a matchup... He did take part 4 machup. Lose all of them and collected several fans two starplayers and an staffupgrade in that round... So losing is very beneficial :-)
 
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Ciaran McCann
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And the FAQ that's out needs an FAQ to correct the errata's errata!!!

The FAQ identifies your roster as;

"A manager’s roster includes all Player cards that belong to that
manager’s team, including cards at match-ups, in his Team deck, in his
discard pile, and in his hand".

So when I get a FREEBOOTER I reshuffle ALL my cards, even the ones at match-ups... DUH!

They should put in errata for FREEBOOTER on page 17.

"Then add the FREEBOOTER to your roster and shuffle it to create a new team deck."

to..

"Then add the FREEBOOTER to your TEAM DECK and shuffle it with your DISCARD PILE
to create a new team deck."

No need to mention your roster to confuse people
(you put it in your roster as in it is now part of your team,
but that's obvious, what's not is which cards to include in the reshuffle.)
All they need to say is what you actually do, as above.

Why can't these people (game rules writers) get it right shake
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Kihon wrote:
"A manager’s roster includes all Player cards that belong to that
manager’s team, including cards at match-ups, in his Team deck, in his
discard pile, and in his hand".

So when I get a FREEBOOTER I reshuffle ALL my cards, even the ones at match-ups... DUH!


You don't have cards at match-ups at this point, DUH shake ! Scoreboard Phase, step 1E is "Clear the Pitch", while step 2 is "Reveal Improvement Pile."

Why can't people bother reading the rules in detail before complaining about them?
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Guido Gloor
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Dam the Man wrote:
Why can't people bother reading the rules in detail before complaining about them?

Meh, knowing what you complain about on the internet is overrated. No need to have any factual foundation for trollmanship.

Edit: Oh, and in order to post several reasonable things at once, all you need is a keyboard like this:



Proof:
Re: What is classed as your Roster
Re: Freebooter Question
Re: Freebooter
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Rauli Kettunen
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Man, my keyboard doesn't have a cool x-key left of the z-key cry .

Also, I think there was a fifth thread were Kihon posted that as well.
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Patrick Rose
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Quote:
A: No. The card text requires that the tackling player target a different opposing player, which means that the tackling player can only
successfully tackle each opposing player at the matchup once. After a
target player is successfully tackled by a player with the pilinG on
ability, that target player cannot be targeted again this round by the
player with the piling on ability


Gorrammit, I read it such that it doesn't care who you've already tackled. Only that the person you're about to tackle must be different to the one you're about to...
 
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