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Rex: Final Days of an Empire» Forums » General

Subject: Playing Rex and Dune together at WBC 2012 rss

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Brad Johnson
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Hi Everyone:

I wanted to let Rex fans know that I have agreed with Don Greenwood (WBC chairman) to run Rex and Dune as a combined tournament at this year's World Boardgaming Championships. (www.boardgamers.org)

Given the similarities between the two games and the potential for significant overlap between the two player bases, Don was in favor of running the games as one tournament, and I agree.

For this year, I am planning on simply allowing players to choose their preference of game, and I'll pair up tables of Rex games and tables of Dune games to make everyone as happy as possible.

Since Rex is very new, I'm planning on playing it as written (including any official FAQs/errata that may get published before August), with the only exception being that races will be drawn randomly. No optional betrayal cards. All other rules (including no private negotiations, no written notes, etc) will stand as published. I really want to see how the game stands on its own in the tournament setting before we start house ruling things.

Dune would continue being played as we've been doing for the last few years, current house rules intact.

Advancement to the final board will follow the same rules, regardless of whether you played Rex or Dune in the preliminary heats -- you get more points for more wins, more points for winning with fewer allies, and more points for more players in the game. (6 players with the most total points advance to the final.) However, Don insisted that the final game be pre-ordained Dune. (The plaques will say "Dune" on them anyway. I suppose if it were to happen that all 6 players who advance are Rex players, I'd certainly have to consider letting the final game be Rex.)

I'm interested in peoples' thoughts on this simple plan. It sounds simple, but is it? Can anyone point out any hidden traps that I need to plan for?

One thing that has been mentioned to me is: what if it turns out to be a lot easier to get a solo victory in Rex than it is in Dune? Since you get a lot more points for a solo victory (as currently defined), this would really skew advancement in favor of Rex players. Ditto prediction victories, which are considered to be solo wins. In 110+ tournament Dune games that I've recorded, I believe that only 5-10% of them have resulted in solo/prediction wins. Do you think it will be much different than that in Rex?

After this year, who knows what will happen? We shall see....
* If it's shown that Dune and Rex can't really play well together and are very different tournament experiences, then maybe we'll need to let them be separate tournaments in 2013.
* If Rex for some reason doesn't garner the attention I think it will, maybe the tournament will just stay pure Dune.
* If interest in Rex completely overshadows the existing Dune attendance, which has been modest, although quite stable, for many years, then maybe it would be time to just let Dune give way to the newcomer.

I'm interested in all of your thoughts and comments...
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Travis Dean
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As far as Rex possibly being easier to win solo, we probably won't know until after running this tournament. Without the betrayal cards, I don't think it'll be too much different.

One thing I could imagine being difficult is a player who is into Rex, but not familiar with Dune, getting to the final table and having to play with slightly different rules because now it's a Dune map and rules. But knowing that ahead of time, the player should try to prepare accordingly, but I would still think it would be a disadvantage to the Rex player.

Regardless, I still support the final table being a Dune game.


One other thought, would it be possible to alternate between Rex/Dune games throughout the tournament? Maybe this could help if you had something like 3 extras for Dune and 3 extras for Rex, you could still have all games maxed at 6 players instead of multiple 5 player games going. This would require people indicating they're okay with either Rex or Dune, but is a thought I have.
 
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Glenn McMaster
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You WBC plan looks pretty good. One thing you might want to consider is also limiting the Dune games to 8 turns to ensure that there is no overt difference in the chances of Fremen/Guild residual in the Dune games vs. a whatever/whatever residual in Rex.

Also, what about using the Rex residual for the Fremen in the Dune games? The Dune version is quite difficult for the Fremen.
 
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Brad Johnson
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Dolus wrote:
One thing I could imagine being difficult is a player who is into Rex, but not familiar with Dune, getting to the final table and having to play with slightly different rules because now it's a Dune map and rules. But knowing that ahead of time, the player should try to prepare accordingly, but I would still think it would be a disadvantage to the Rex player.

I am a little worried about that, but as you say, the tournament rules are being published in advance, so at least no one should be surprised. I am thinking I won't be shocked if, say, only 1 or 2 Rex players advance to a Dune final to be played with mostly Dune players and the Rex players decide to drop out. I would hope not, but I'm going to make sure I have more alternates lined up than usual, I think.

Dolus wrote:
One other thought, would it be possible to alternate between Rex/Dune games throughout the tournament? Maybe this could help if you had something like 3 extras for Dune and 3 extras for Rex, you could still have all games maxed at 6 players instead of multiple 5 player games going. This would require people indicating they're okay with either Rex or Dune, but is a thought I have.

You mean have an all-Dune heat followed by an all-Rex heat, etc? That's not a bad idea, but frankly, running three 5-hour heats plus an 8-hour final already puts a pretty big strain on my time at the con -- I don't think I'm ready to double the number of heats I already run. I think I'm going to just have to run them together and hope that the player numbers work out ok. I'm sure it'll take a little negotiation. I'm expecting to ask each player at signup time to indicate "Dune only", "Rex only", "Prefer Dune but will play Rex", or "Prefer Rex but will play Dune". Hopefully there will be enough players who are flexible to help fill boards. If not, I'm prepared to seat tables with fewer than 5 players this year if absolutely necessary.
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Brad Johnson
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GLENN239 wrote:
One thing you might want to consider is also limiting the Dune games to 8 turns to ensure that there is no overt difference in the chances of Fremen/Guild residual in the Dune games vs. a whatever/whatever residual in Rex.

I would consider that. I did think about it, and I was sort of hoping 10 turns wasn't too different from 8. The average Dune game is now finishing in just over 7 turns, so in theory, 8 would be just enough to cover the average "normal" win. It does make me a little nervous, though.

GLENN239 wrote:
Also, what about using the Rex residual for the Fremen in the Dune games? The Dune version is quite difficult for the Fremen.

I don't think it changes a lot -- it just puts constraints on 2 strongholds instead of 3. I guess I would consider it, though. (As you know, the Fremen still need a bit of help anyway...)
 
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Travis Dean
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GLENN239 wrote:
You WBC plan looks pretty good. One thing you might want to consider is also limiting the Dune games to 8 turns to ensure that there is no overt difference in the chances of Fremen/Guild residual in the Dune games vs. a whatever/whatever residual in Rex.

Also, what about using the Rex residual for the Fremen in the Dune games? The Dune version is quite difficult for the Fremen.


I would lean towards leaving the Dune rules as they are. I don't recall all the rules used in the Dune tournament, but I think it would be weird to change and/or enforce new house rules just because of Rex.

tempus42 wrote:
You mean have an all-Dune heat followed by an all-Rex heat, etc? That's not a bad idea, but frankly, running three 5-hour heats plus an 8-hour final already puts a pretty big strain on my time at the con -- I don't think I'm ready to double the number of heats I already run. I think I'm going to just have to run them together and hope that the player numbers work out ok. I'm sure it'll take a little negotiation. I'm expecting to ask each player at signup time to indicate "Dune only", "Rex only", "Prefer Dune but will play Rex", or "Prefer Rex but will play Dune". Hopefully there will be enough players who are flexible to help fill boards. If not, I'm prepared to seat tables with fewer than 5 players this year if absolutely necessary.


Not that, no. I don't know much about the details of the side by side tournament, but my suggestion is more along the lines of, let's say you have 18 people in the tournament (hopefully you have way more!), 14 interested in Dune, 4 in Rex. You'll have 1 game of 4 Rex players, 2 games of 5 Dune players, and 1 4-player game of Dune. If players were willing to play Dune round 1, and Rex round 2, etc. or be flexible in that regard, then you could have 2 of the Dune players playing Rex in round 1. Then in round 2, those players rotate back to playing Dune, and 2 other Dune players willing to play Rex rotate in to play Rex. Hopefully that makes more sense.
 
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Richard Irving
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Dolus wrote:

Not that, no. I don't know much about the details of the side by side tournament, but my suggestion is more along the lines of, let's say you have 18 people in the tournament (hopefully you have way more!), 14 interested in Dune, 4 in Rex. You'll have 1 game of 4 Rex players, 2 games of 5 Dune players, and 1 4-player game of Dune.


If this situation came I would think Brad would ask the Dune players if any would be willing to play Rex instead. Or he may simply ask when someone signs up if they have no preference and use that info to fill the tables.

This is generally how WBC events with related games work (Empire Builder, Age of Steam, Ticket to Ride, "Here I Stand"/"Virgin Queen", etc.)

The biggest difference between Dune and Rex is the Advanced combat system in Dune, used in the tournament.
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Steven Parsonage
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One other factor, if noboby has mentioned it yet: play time.

Rex is a streamlined Dune, that can play in 3 hours with 6 players.

Dune can take up to 6 hours with 6 players.
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Richard Irving
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Rex: Final Days of an Empire » Forums » General
Re: Playing Rex and Dune together at WBC 2012
cowpercoles wrote:
One other factor, if noboby has mentioned it yet: play time.

Rex is a streamlined Dune, that can play in 3 hours with 6 players.

Dune can take up to 6 hours with 6 players.


No, that important--Brad schedules 5 hours for heat games (which are shortened to 10 turns), each heat is scheduled on different days.

3 hour games of Rex should have no problems with the time limit.
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Michael Powers
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I find myself irrationally upset at including Rex in this tourney. I guess it's emotional, but certainly rubbing me the wrong way. I will remain calm.
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