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Subject: Help convince me I want this when I've already got San Juan rss

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Cilantro V
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goo

hello, Fleeters.

I love a lot of things about what I've seen of the game so far; quick gameplay that isn't without depth, easy setup and transport, solid theme. I'm not without worries, though.

Fleet reminds me very much of San Juan. There's of course the tableau-building and a somewhat similar start-of-round role-selection mechanic, but mainly it has to do with the two-phase resource production. San Juan has produce/trade, Fleet has launch/captain. I've enjoyed San Juan, but it feels a little dry to me most games. Does Fleet stay fun and in-theme after multiple plays, or does it become a framework to strategize around? I also find it hard to teach San Juan to others; the difficulty curve is steep. Can someone pick up fleet and be competitive in a game or two? Or is there a significant gap between new and experienced players?

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Matt Riddle
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CIlantr0 wrote:
goo

hello, Fleeters.

I love a lot of things about what I've seen of the game so far; quick gameplay that isn't without depth, easy setup and transport, solid theme. I'm not without worries, though.

Fleet reminds me very much of San Juan. There's of course the tableau-building and a somewhat similar start-of-round role-selection mechanic, but mainly it has to do with the two-phase resource production. San Juan has produce/trade, Fleet has launch/captain. I've enjoyed San Juan, but it feels a little dry to me most games. Does Fleet stay fun and in-theme after multiple plays, or does it become a framework to strategize around? I also find it hard to teach San Juan to others; the difficulty curve is steep. Can someone pick up fleet and be competitive in a game or two? Or is there a significant gap between new and experienced players?



The license cards are not role selection, every player does every phase. The exception is Processing Vessel in that you must have one to participate in that phase. Otherwise, there are similarities but I think the overall gameplay is much different. Produce/trade feels similar to launch/captain because of the putting a card face down on top of another, but it does not work the same way. Fleets boats are all tied to the license cards the player has purchased. The captains allows the boat to start fishing and only has to be done once and all boats can participate. Once captained, a boat will catch fish and nothing else needs to be done.

We designed Fleet to be easy to learn, but have depth. If you watch the dice tower preview or read the Father Geek review, they both mention that Fleet is easy to teach but not an "easy" game.
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Ben Pinchback
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At a higher level, one of the biggest differences from my perspective is that in most games of San Juan I've played there seems to be a few dominant winning strategies. In fleet, I am biased but believe there is a broader range of paths that can lead players to victory. San Juan has role selection while fleet has phases. Neither is better, they're just different that way. Producing and trading in san Juan are role selections, while fishing is a phase in fleet that happens every turn. That's the higher level answer.

Down at a detail level, they're very different games. 1 deck of cards in san Juan vs in fleet the license deck and boat card deck. Only getting cards through the draw pile in SJ vs winning auctions in Fleet. Fleet has the stacking license bonuses which lets the player decide whether to hammer one or two things or diversify completely. The boat cards are very different than the SJ cards you draw through your hand. I like SJ. It's a good game. I think there's room for both.

As for your last question. I'm not sure how to answer that. There's not many games I play where a brand new player is in game 1 on equal footing with experienced players. I will say though, Fleet is very intuitive rather quickly and the new player can be right there in the mix pretty quickly.
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Richard Morgan
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Oh no if it's like San Juan I am not sure I want it after all :(

Can't stand San Juan!
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Mathue Faulk
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richiebabes wrote:
Oh no if it's like San Juan I am not sure I want it after all

Can't stand San Juan!


I think it completely depends on what you don't like...

It's definitely a different game, but it fills a similar niche.
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Matt Riddle
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Check out the dice hate me podcast. The mention the perceived similarity between Fleet and San Juan bit discuss why they are different (and why Fleet is better ). Listen to the whole thing cause its great, but the Fleet stuff is at the 56min mark
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepodcastepisode/75874/the-o...
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Mathue Faulk
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riddlen wrote:
Check out the dice hate me podcast. The mention the perceived similarity between Fleet and San Juan bit discuss why they are different (and why Fleet is better ). Listen to the whole thing cause its great, but the Fleet stuff is at the 56min mark
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepodcastepisode/75874/the-o...


It is a great podcast! That was my first dicehateme podcast, and now I'm subscribed. There is also an interesting discussion with the designer of Eclipse for those interested....

Even after listening to the podcast, however, I can't decide on Eclipse Fleet. The podcast does point out a few short comings of San Juan, but I still enjoy the game enough that I'm not sure that I need to replace it...

(plus with the Black Box GtR on its way....)

Edit: strikethrough
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Matt Riddle
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mfaulk80 wrote:
riddlen wrote:
Check out the dice hate me podcast. The mention the perceived similarity between Fleet and San Juan bit discuss why they are different (and why Fleet is better ). Listen to the whole thing cause its great, but the Fleet stuff is at the 56min mark
http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgamepodcastepisode/75874/the-o...


It is a great podcast! That was my first dicehateme podcast, and now I'm subscribed. There is also an interesting discussion with the designer of Eclipse for those interested....

Even after listening to the podcast, however, I can't decide on Eclipse. The podcast does point out a few short comings of San Juan, but I still enjoy the game enough that I'm not sure that I need to replace it...

(plus with the Black Box GtR on its way....)


I want Eclipse.
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Cilantro V
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I think we all want Eclipse

I also want the GtR Black Box, but that is 100000% art-related, even if I am discovering I rather like tableau-builders.

I'm checking out the podcast right now, and I'll be sure to respond when I've heard their say on things.

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Ben Pinchback
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CIlantr0 wrote:
I think we all want Eclipse

I also want the GtR Black Box, but that is 100000% art-related, even if I am discovering I rather like tableau-builders.

I'm checking out the podcast right now, and I'll be sure to respond when I've heard their say on things.


Tableau builders is a great way to categorize these strategic card games. That's more elegent than "engine builders" which is what I used in the past.
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Cilantro V
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Fleet » Forums » General
Re: Help convince me I want this when I've already got San Juan
Yep! It also covers set-builders like Monopoly Deal; I'd qualify 7 Wonders as one, too. I guess I just like watching the engine (or VP) stack up in front of me. I'm seeing a lot of aspects of games I like in Fleet!

The podcaster's insights were definitely helpful, and I think it may be time to jump on the backing boat. meeple
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