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Subject: Mayday Games on Kickstarter & Deniath rss

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CapAp wrote:
You can always learn like the rest of us did, I guess. And next time *you* can try to explain to the new fellow who can't understand why Nice Guy Seth has such a bad rep.

When that day comes, I shall embrace you like a brother!
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rahdo wrote:
"Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" - Napolean Bonaparte

The way I see it, there's two ways you can interpret the Mayday saga:

1) Seth is an amoral conman who is systematically cooking up scheme after scheme to defraud boardgame fanatics, and when caught spins elaborate lies to obfuscate the truth, secretly vowing to return with an even better con next time, supervillain style.

2) Seth is a normal guy trying to run complicated business with a lot of moving parts who occasionally makes mistakes (as any business will do, a certain percentage of the time) and apologizes & corrects them when they are brought to his attention, good businessman style.


I posted that exact quote in the Crokinole thread because I believe there's a third option, one representing true incompetence:

3) Seth is a bumbling idiot who doesn't understand what good business is until customers tell him how he should be running his business. He truly doesn't understand that selling a customer a new Crokinole board and shipping them a used, damaged one is near fraud and bad business.

He asked BGG, full of third-party non-stakeholders, what he should do when the original Crokinole fiasco happened. I, myself, told him he should offer full refunds to everyone he sold to and suggested that he offer a 1-year warranty / refund period for everyone who opted to keep the boards.

He did exactly that and thanked me for what amounted to free business consulting. He doesn't seem to understand the mistakes he is making. He doesn't understand supplier relations or how to fulfill promises that he makes to customers. He doesn't understand that not fulfilling promises is nearly fraud.

He doesn't even understand what "apologize and correct" means. When a board he had sold as having a "real wood veneer" turned out to be laminate instead, his first instinct to "apologize and correct" the situation was to redefine "veneer" rather than admit he didn't understand the difference and screwed up.

It's not just that he occasionally makes mistakes. It's that making mistakes is the modus operandi at Mayday Games, an aptly named company.
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aaarg_ink wrote:
Even though I don't think he's actually done anything patently illegal, Seth seems to like operating his business in the grey, and at this point, even I, a gullible liberal from Berkeley who wants to feel warm and fuzzy all the time, am compelled to be very extremely skeptical of anything he's up to [thread=779774](see the weaselly way he's handling the new mahogony crokinole board so far)[/thread].

Reputation is a bitch.


Interesting...instead of getting the question of whether his new Mahogony crokinole boards have plywood or particle board substrates answered, he got the thread deleted.

I don't know if the user who posted the initial thread about the new Mayday Mahogony Veneer boards was a sock puppet or not -- I am loathe to accuse, but at this point I am willing to wonder out loud, because the thread linked above is now dead.

In any case, in the now dead link, Seth mentioned the Hillinski board was made out of "plywood particle board" which is a silly non-existant building material, and when called out on it he retreated because it was patently untrue -- I've got a Hillinski hanging on the wall right next to me. But he never said what his board is made out of. We'll see if he answers the question here.

When this type of sloppiness is repeated many times, I begin to ascribe malicious negligence behind his actions. I understand making simple stupid mistakes, but keep repeating those mistakes and you go from businessman to shady game supplier.

edit: He has answered the thread, good for him.
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Another rallying call for torches and pitchforks, while other companies are allowed to get passes for their corrective measures.

I didn't see any outcry against AEG over the missing cards from Thunderstone: Heart of Doom. But when they announce they're fixing the problem, everybody loves them.

Gilby is correct, however. What started as an honest concern has again exploded into another case of BGG entitlement rage against the site's most convenient target, again piling every past instance of wrong-doing onto this separate matter.

Look, I know that Mayday Games isn't the smoothest operating company. I know they make mistakes. But what I see is a company that's TRYING to get games on the market for gamers to enjoy, and getting repeatedly assaulted for making mistakes along the way. But it's clear that people here can't see any good coming from Mayday. In all honesty, I'm surprised Seth Hiatt hasn't given up on all of us and shut down the company.

If people knew the reputiation of Mayday Games before this latest assault on Mt. Molehill, why even considering pre-ordering from them?
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J.L.Robert wrote:
In all honesty, I'm surprised Seth Hiatt hasn't given up on all of us and shut down the company.


Thanks for the kind words. We are trying honestly. For those who are not aware, Mayday is essentially a one-man show. I make mistakes, and I'm far from perfect. Most of the problems we have had center around me being the only guy who handles most of the really critical stuff, so if I go on a trip or am unreachable for any length of time, things hit the fan fast.

We have one other full-time employee (Gregg) who runs the shipping dept and handles most of our wholesale orders. We have a very part-time employee, Sarah, who handles customer service and order processing. We have a couple of high school kids that come in on an as-needed basis to ship stuff for us that Gregg can't handle. One of those I'm about ready to throw out the window because he has been messing up on very simple things lately.

Every one of our 100+ products in our line I have personally developed, sourced, marketed and sold... with some help from a web designer and of course various graphic designers, board game designers and other specialists. But every single thing is from or through me.

In the last year we have brought Get Bit, Tok Tok Woodman, Eaten by Zombies, 2 new versions of Crokinole and at least 10 new sleeve and token sets to the market. This isn't counting things like Weykick, Terra Evolution and Lemonade Stand that are still in production.

Honestly the main reason we are still around is two fold:

1) When my family and I meet all of the other geeks at Origins/GenCon/Essen and actually interact with you/them the very first thing out of 95% of people's mouths is "hey, thanks for making your products, we love X or Y so much and are so sorry you get such a bad rap on BGG, we've never had any problems with you!"

The other 5% haven't heard of us but are delighted when my 9 year old son Porter teaches some one else's kid how to play Tok Tok Woodman or Crokinole. We genuinely have a great time as a family at these conventions and love the industry and the games/accessories we make.

I love talking to my kids about business and strategy and having a 'carrot' at your booth to bring people in. We almost always have a free token give away set and I'm teaching the kids how to work. Last year my older son and daughter (10 and 12 at the time) ran a booth at GenCon all by themselves in another area of the hall, just showing people how to play Crokinole for 3 days.

2) The same few "haters" that pile on (mixed in with actual customers who have concerns that need addressing), are NOT our customers. Our sales have never been stronger and we realize those who defame us here on the internet are not those who we are serving with our products. I will tell everyone and anyone that there has never been a single customer of ours who didn't get the product they wanted or a replacement or a full refund if needed. At least not a single one that I'm aware of. If that did happen to you please contact me and I will still take care of you!

Ok, there is a 3rd reason, I have another part-time job and we are living pretty cheap at present. For those who may not have heard, we moved to Suzhou China about 5 months ago.. the whole family. It is a totally new experience for us, but it has been really great too.

If you are interested you should check out my wife's blog about the whole thing, paulahiatt.net. She is a great writer and we are branching out into book publishing with her first book in June.

Anyway, if any of you need any help at all about any problem at all, please don't hesitate to ask or email me personally at seth@maydaygames.com.

I don't mind the lively discussion about our service/products/intentions, but please do keep the personal attacks down. I'm not the devil and we haven't survived on scamming people.

Yes this was a mistake with Weykick getting on Deniath for several hours and there were probably 5 or so people who are getting the game for less than the Kickstarter people by a few bucks at the end of the day, but this is a far cry from somehow "scamming" people out of $25,000. That money is going straight to the factory to pay for the Weykick game and the shipping and every one of those backers is going to get their product, just as every one of our backers for all of our other kickstarters got the product. No it hasn't been perfect but we have ALWAYS shipped the games from Kickstarter in the month we forecast, or in some cases earlier.

Anyway, I won't try to take on all of you at once here, I've learned my lesson about that. I would ask for some civility and I'll try harder to do the same.

Thanks to all of you and if you ever have a game prototype you want to show me I'd love to take a look at it.

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Goddamn. It really is painful watching people getting ripped off over and over again.

J.L.Robert wrote:

If people knew the reputiation of Mayday Games before this latest assault on Mt. Molehill, why even considering pre-ordering from them?


Because invariably someone will appear to defend Mayday games and make what they do seem not so bad?

Because our hobby is growing and there is a constant influx of naive buyers?
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maydaygames wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
In all honesty, I'm surprised Seth Hiatt hasn't given up on all of us and shut down the company.


Thanks for the kind words. We are trying honestly. For those who are not aware, Mayday is essentially a one-man show. I make mistakes, and I'm far from perfect. Most of the problems we have had center around me being the only guy who handles most of the really critical stuff, so if I go on a trip or am unreachable for any length of time, things hit the fan fast.

We have one other full-time employee (Gregg) who runs the shipping dept and handles most of our wholesale orders. We have a very part-time employee, Sarah, who handles customer service and order processing. We have a couple of high school kids that come in on an as-needed basis to ship stuff for us that Gregg can't handle. One of those I'm about ready to throw out the window because he has been messing up on very simple things lately.

Every one of our 100+ products in our line I have personally developed, sourced, marketed and sold... with some help from a web designer and of course various graphic designers, board game designers and other specialists. But every single thing is from or through me.

In the last year we have brought Get Bit, Tok Tok Woodman, Eaten by Zombies, 2 new versions of Crokinole and at least 10 new sleeve and token sets to the market. This isn't counting things like Weykick, Terra Evolution and Lemonade Stand that are still in production.

Honestly the main reason we are still around is two fold:

1) When my family and I meet all of the other geeks at Origins/GenCon/Essen and actually interact with you/them the very first thing out of 95% of people's mouths is "hey, thanks for making your products, we love X or Y so much and are so sorry you get such a bad rap on BGG, we've never had any problems with you!"

The other 5% haven't heard of us but are delighted when my 9 year old son Porter teaches some one else's kid how to play Tok Tok Woodman or Crokinole. We genuinely have a great time as a family at these conventions and love the industry and the games/accessories we make.

I love talking to my kids about business and strategy and having a 'carrot' at your booth to bring people in. We almost always have a free token give away set and I'm teaching the kids how to work. Last year my older son and daughter (10 and 12 at the time) ran a booth at GenCon all by themselves in another area of the hall, just showing people how to play Crokinole for 3 days.

2) The same few "haters" that pile on (mixed in with actual customers who have concerns that need addressing), are NOT our customers. Our sales have never been stronger and we realize those who defame us here on the internet are not those who we are serving with our products. I will tell everyone and anyone that there has never been a single customer of ours who didn't get the product they wanted or a replacement or a full refund if needed. At least not a single one that I'm aware of. If that did happen to you please contact me and I will still take care of you!

Ok, there is a 3rd reason, I have another part-time job and we are living pretty cheap at present. For those who may not have heard, we moved to Suzhou China about 5 months ago.. the whole family. It is a totally new experience for us, but it has been really great too.

If you are interested you should check out my wife's blog about the whole thing, paulahiatt.net. She is a great writer and we are branching out into book publishing with her first book in June.

Anyway, if any of you need any help at all about any problem at all, please don't hesitate to ask or email me personally at seth@maydaygames.com.

I don't mind the lively discussion about our service/products/intentions, but please do keep the personal attacks down. I'm not the devil and we haven't survived on scamming people.

Yes this was a mistake with Weykick getting on Deniath for several hours and there were probably 5 or so people who are getting the game for less than the Kickstarter people by a few bucks at the end of the day, but this is a far cry from somehow "scamming" people out of $25,000. That money is going straight to the factory to pay for the Weykick game and the shipping and every one of those backers is going to get their product, just as every one of our backers for all of our other kickstarters got the product. No it hasn't been perfect but we have ALWAYS shipped the games from Kickstarter in the month we forecast, or in some cases earlier.

Anyway, I won't try to take on all of you at once here, I've learned my lesson about that. I would ask for some civility and I'll try harder to do the same.

Thanks to all of you and if you ever have a game prototype you want to show me I'd love to take a look at it.

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maydaygames wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
In all honesty, I'm surprised Seth Hiatt hasn't given up on all of us and shut down the company.


Thanks for the kind words. We are trying honestly. For those who are not aware, Mayday is essentially a one-man show. I make mistakes, and I'm far from perfect. Most of the problems we have had center around me being the only guy who handles most of the really critical stuff, so if I go on a trip or am unreachable for any length of time, things hit the fan fast.

We have one other full-time employee (Gregg) who runs the shipping dept and handles most of our wholesale orders. We have a very part-time employee, Sarah, who handles customer service and order processing. We have a couple of high school kids that come in on an as-needed basis to ship stuff for us that Gregg can't handle. One of those I'm about ready to throw out the window because he has been messing up on very simple things lately.

Every one of our 100+ products in our line I have personally developed, sourced, marketed and sold... with some help from a web designer and of course various graphic designers, board game designers and other specialists. But every single thing is from or through me.

In the last year we have brought Get Bit, Tok Tok Woodman, Eaten by Zombies, 2 new versions of Crokinole and at least 10 new sleeve and token sets to the market. This isn't counting things like Weykick, Terra Evolution and Lemonade Stand that are still in production.

Honestly the main reason we are still around is two fold:

1) When my family and I meet all of the other geeks at Origins/GenCon/Essen and actually interact with you/them the very first thing out of 95% of people's mouths is "hey, thanks for making your products, we love X or Y so much and are so sorry you get such a bad rap on BGG, we've never had any problems with you!"

The other 5% haven't heard of us but are delighted when my 9 year old son Porter teaches some one else's kid how to play Tok Tok Woodman or Crokinole. We genuinely have a great time as a family at these conventions and love the industry and the games/accessories we make.

I love talking to my kids about business and strategy and having a 'carrot' at your booth to bring people in. We almost always have a free token give away set and I'm teaching the kids how to work. Last year my older son and daughter (10 and 12 at the time) ran a booth at GenCon all by themselves in another area of the hall, just showing people how to play Crokinole for 3 days.

2) The same few "haters" that pile on (mixed in with actual customers who have concerns that need addressing), are NOT our customers. Our sales have never been stronger and we realize those who defame us here on the internet are not those who we are serving with our products. I will tell everyone and anyone that there has never been a single customer of ours who didn't get the product they wanted or a replacement or a full refund if needed. At least not a single one that I'm aware of. If that did happen to you please contact me and I will still take care of you!

Ok, there is a 3rd reason, I have another part-time job and we are living pretty cheap at present. For those who may not have heard, we moved to Suzhou China about 5 months ago.. the whole family. It is a totally new experience for us, but it has been really great too.

If you are interested you should check out my wife's blog about the whole thing, paulahiatt.net. She is a great writer and we are branching out into book publishing with her first book in June.

Anyway, if any of you need any help at all about any problem at all, please don't hesitate to ask or email me personally at seth@maydaygames.com.

I don't mind the lively discussion about our service/products/intentions, but please do keep the personal attacks down. I'm not the devil and we haven't survived on scamming people.

Yes this was a mistake with Weykick getting on Deniath for several hours and there were probably 5 or so people who are getting the game for less than the Kickstarter people by a few bucks at the end of the day, but this is a far cry from somehow "scamming" people out of $25,000. That money is going straight to the factory to pay for the Weykick game and the shipping and every one of those backers is going to get their product, just as every one of our backers for all of our other kickstarters got the product. No it hasn't been perfect but we have ALWAYS shipped the games from Kickstarter in the month we forecast, or in some cases earlier.

Anyway, I won't try to take on all of you at once here, I've learned my lesson about that. I would ask for some civility and I'll try harder to do the same.

Thanks to all of you and if you ever have a game prototype you want to show me I'd love to take a look at it.


I was not going to respond, but I unfortunately I am unable to let this go, especially since I am probably in the list of "haters" that you mentioned. I would not be so bitter if my experiences with Mayday didn't all play out the same way. I am so sick and tired of defective sleeves, incomplete games, and the endless excuses as to why there were issues sending replacement parts or this, that, and the other thing. It should not take 3+ attempts and 2+ months to send a replacement part. Other companies get parts out almost immediately and the shipment arrives safely and correctly on the first attempt. The Mayday web site advertises "Customer Satisfaction Guaranteed" but you are simply unable to actually deliver on those promises. I can't seem to get any resolution with Mayday now, probably because I have been so outspoken about this issues here.

Regarding my issues with the Mayday sleeves... I just went back through my orders. It looks like I have purchased somewhere around 3600 Mayday sleeves. Of the ones I have used so far, I have encountered around 300 defective sleeves. 25 are from various packs of smaller or less common-sized sleeves, ~75 are from the green (CCG/Poker Size) and purple (Standard USA Card Size), and the remaining 200 are 4 packs of premium purple sleeves alone that are all too narrow to fit the TtR cards that they are meant to fit. That puts the defect rate is at 8.33% and that is totally unacceptable. Sadly, I still have 600-700 of the 3600 sleeves left and will probably continue to encounter issues. To be fair, Mayday did replace a few packs early on, but since then I can't seem to get any new responses.

In comparison, I have purchased 1100 FFG/FFS premium sleeves (mostly in the CCG/poker and Mini European sizes) and have had 0 defects with them. I have actually had packs containing 1 extra sleeve. This is obviously a case of getting the quality that I paid for.

Regarding Mayday Kickstarter projects shipping on time... This is simply not true either based on comments/posts in the BGG forum and the related Kickstarter project pages:

Get Bit!
Funded: September 7, 2011
Estimated Delivery: Sep 2011 ("...will be sent to you within a week of the Kickstarter ending." = September 16, 2011)
Delivered: Game received September 29, 2011; Expansions received October 28, 2011

Toc Toc Woodman
Funded: October 2, 2011
Estimated Delivery: Oct 2011
Delivered: Late November/Early December 2011

White Elephant (picked up by Mayday after the project funded)
Funded: July 24, 2011
Estimated Delivery: N/A (July 24, 2011: "The game will be printed and in your hands no later than the first of November, hopefully sooner, but definitely in time for the holidays!"; September 8, 2011: "It might make it by Thanksgiving, definitely before Christmas!")
Delivered: December 10, 2011
This game was then dumped on Tanga before the Kickstarter backers even received their copies...


Furthermore, you didn't even address the issue of selling "exclusive" Kickstarter promo items OUTSIDE of Kickstarter.

Please, just stop using false advertising and making promises that you aren't going to keep. Produce a QUALITY product, free of defects, and is there is a problem, don't try to cover it up or smooth talk out of it. Just make it right. DO THINGS RIGHT THE FIRST TIME. It will end up saving more money in the long run and go a long way at rebuilding customer trust and loyalty.
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J.L.Robert wrote:
Another rallying call for torches and pitchforks, while other companies are allowed to get passes for their corrective measures.

I wrote in one of my posts last night that the next thing we'd see would be J.L. Robert trotting out his torches and pitchforks line, but then I deleted it because I figured it was treading too close to a personal attack. I'm relieved to see that the sun still rises in the east, though.
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Your institutional memory is amazing... I just did a small search on JLR's prior posts and you are dead on.

Is there a microbadge for predictable behavior?



Sphere wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Another rallying call for torches and pitchforks, while other companies are allowed to get passes for their corrective measures.

I wrote in one of my posts last night that the next thing we'd see would be J.L. Robert trotting out his torches and pitchforks line, but then I deleted it because I figured it was treading too close to a personal attack. I'm relieved to see that the sun still rises in the east, though.
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BoardGameGeek » Forums » Gaming Related » Discussing Retailers
Re: Mayday Games on Kickstarter & Deniath
Sphere wrote:

Look at what he wrote on that kickstarter page. It wouldn't have fooled me for a second, knowing who wrote it (Seth couldn't give me a game - and he has tried). But honest people feel betrayed when they give him a substantial sum of money in good faith, and then discover he was playing them. As sleazy Hiatt maneuvers go, I've seen worse, but then again I've been watching him operate for years.


But it sure didn't look like attempting to fool; it looked like a typical preorder/Kickstarter announcement. And the anger over a lower price occurring from a deep discounter is a typical BGGer sort of complaint. See this thread or this thread for earlier examples.

Seth should have enough experience as a producer and a retailer to know that deep discounts can take a price down 40% or more. From that, I'll agree that this sentence, "This project may very well be your ONLY chance to get WeyKick in the USA, and the price will NEVER be better!" can be read, at best, as stupidly naive.
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Gilby wrote:

Seth should have enough experience as a producer and a retailer to know that deep discounts can take a price down 40% or more. From that, I'll agree that this sentence, "This project may very well be your ONLY chance to get WeyKick in the USA, and the price will NEVER be better!" can be read, at best, as stupidly naive.


Again, I can't read anyone's intent just from an internet message board and a series of instances of interaction with the public.

However, even if it was just stupid naivete, he's been stupidly naive in the same industry for years now. At some point, you, as a business, have to learn from your mistakes or you no longer get a pass. You also have to own up to them, instead of constantly editing your posts after others have read them and called you out on the content. Or hire someone who has the job of interacting with the public on these boards, because valid or not, Seth has burned a ton of bridges here with how he's handled the situations himself.
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NateStraight wrote:

I posted that exact quote in the Crokinole thread because I believe there's a third option, one representing true incompetence:

3) Seth is a bumbling idiot who doesn't understand what good business is until customers tell him how he should be running his business. He truly doesn't understand that selling a customer a new Crokinole board and shipping them a used, damaged one is near fraud and bad business.

[...]

It's not just that he occasionally makes mistakes. It's that making mistakes is the modus operandi at Mayday Games, an aptly named company.


What he said.

maydaygames wrote:

We have just a few extra Weykicks after the Kickstarter and thought a private offering from Deniath would be a good way to generate some buzz for them and move the game for us, but in a private setting. I really just didn't think....


And Seth seems to make Nate's point for him.

MattShinners wrote:

However, even if it was just stupid naivete, he's been stupidly naive in the same industry for years now. At some point, you, as a business, have to learn from your mistakes....


Not everyone is equipped to learn.
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darthhugo wrote:
Your institutional memory is amazing... I just did a small search on JLR's prior posts and you are dead on.

Is there a microbadge for predictable behavior?



Sphere wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Another rallying call for torches and pitchforks, while other companies are allowed to get passes for their corrective measures.

I wrote in one of my posts last night that the next thing we'd see would be J.L. Robert trotting out his torches and pitchforks line, but then I deleted it because I figured it was treading too close to a personal attack. I'm relieved to see that the sun still rises in the east, though.


And it's correct, each and every time. My apologies for being an accurate observer.

ADDED

If this company is so terribly shady and corrupt, anyone with any sort of familiarity with them shouldn't be spending a penny on their product. Yet, they keep doing so, then complain that the behavior of Mayday doesn't change. Why should it change when people remain as gullible the 10th time as the first?

There's also the matter of the "house band," the same collection of users always coming in to rail on Mayday and Seth. After a while, the complaints get filtered out of the company's usable feedback. Out of X pages, there might be 2-3 individuals with a valid concern, and 7-8 others airing out the dirty laundry once more. Now, if Mayday has sold 500 other units without complaint, then it's a managable issue.

I'm willing to take what Seth says at face value. I don't see him tell people to take their problems and shove it up their tailpipes; he attempts to address them and offers an opportunity for private dialogue to resolve any issue. That's what I would expect from a company that does care about customer service; a public forum is no place to resolve individual complaints (mass production defects, sure). Any claims of criminal acts or conspiracy on his part are speculative at best, libelous at worst.

Everyone will gloss over this point, but I'm NOT on Seth Hiatt's side. I'm on the side of treating every company fairly, and for consumers to do their research and making intelligent decisions with their money. If someone doesn't trust a company, don't give it any money...it's not that difficult to do.
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dkearns wrote:
Goddamn. It really is painful watching people getting ripped off over and over again.

J.L.Robert wrote:

If people knew the reputiation of Mayday Games before this latest assault on Mt. Molehill, why even considering pre-ordering from them?


Because invariably someone will appear to defend Mayday games and make what they do seem not so bad?

Because our hobby is growing and there is a constant influx of naive buyers?


To your first point: that still doesn't negate the negative experiences of those who wish to rail on Mayday. Why are those people still giving Mayday money?

To your second point: those people do not know the reputation of Mayday Games, so my statement clearly does not apply to them.
 
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NateStraight wrote:

It's not just that he occasionally makes mistakes. It's that making mistakes is the modus operandi at Mayday Games, an aptly named company.



"All you need is ignorance and confidence and the success is sure."
--Mark Twain


(For the record in all my snippy little comments. I don't think anything mayday games did is outright bad. Still giving him the Hanlon's Razor. I do think that you want your company to avoid appearing bad though, and in that regard he missed the mark.)
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bippi wrote:
the record in all my snippy little comments. I don't think anything mayday games did is outright bad. Still giving him the Hanlon's Razor. I do think that you want your company to avoid appearing bad though, and in that regard he missed the mark.)

I agree with this.
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J.L.Robert wrote:
Any claims of criminal acts or conspiracy on his part are speculative at best, libelous at worst.

Are you familiar with his ebay history?

Quote:
I'm willing to take what Seth says at face value.

Mayday depends on rubes like you.
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CapAp wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Any claims of criminal acts or conspiracy on his part are speculative at best, libelous at worst.

Are you familiar with his ebay history?


I'm not. Fill me in?
 
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You are correct in the sense that pile on about other grievances is unnecessary and personal attacks about Seth's character are unwarranted, especially attributing motive to his decisions.

What this thread IS about, and in all senses necessary, is a historical record for future consumers to access and digest. It is information that may influence them on their future purchasing decisions. Therefore, this thread is absolutely necessary so that buyers can decide if they want to support MayDay games.

I would be the last person to publicly castigate an honest mistake, take up virtual arms against a minor episode of poor CS, but this case crossed the line as far as I'm concerned, and thus the number of posts. If you aren't into my views and opinions, you have the same option as a consumer making buying choices... don't read it.

In closing for the last time, I do hope that Seth get's his business matters in control. He nailed the problem on the head during his response and hopefully he will use it as a map for positive, corrective action. He sounds like a good person, but perhaps not the best business person, who is trying to make his way in our hobby industry. I think the pile on is attributable to HOW he has publicly addressed PR issues and not necessarily that they happened. According to Seth, these PR issues were handled with care, concern, and no issues and that everyone attacking him is out to get him (or non-customers), but a simple analysis of the data shows that there is either a slight spinning of facts OR there is a huge conspiracy against Seth and his business.

I'm not going to judge either way, but I have seen this picture before, and I will draw my own conclusion... as you recommend.



J.L.Robert wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
Your institutional memory is amazing... I just did a small search on JLR's prior posts and you are dead on.

Is there a microbadge for predictable behavior?



Sphere wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Another rallying call for torches and pitchforks, while other companies are allowed to get passes for their corrective measures.

I wrote in one of my posts last night that the next thing we'd see would be J.L. Robert trotting out his torches and pitchforks line, but then I deleted it because I figured it was treading too close to a personal attack. I'm relieved to see that the sun still rises in the east, though.


And it's correct, each and every time. My apologies for being an accurate observer.

ADDED

If this company is so terribly shady and corrupt, anyone with any sort of familiarity with them shouldn't be spending a penny on their product. Yet, they keep doing so, then complain that the behavior of Mayday doesn't change. Why should it change when people remain as gullible the 10th time as the first?

There's also the matter of the "house band," the same collection of users always coming in to rail on Mayday and Seth. After a while, the complaints get filtered out of the company's usable feedback. Out of X pages, there might be 2-3 individuals with a valid concern, and 7-8 others airing out the dirty laundry once more. Now, if Mayday has sold 500 other units without complaint, then it's a managable issue.

I'm willing to take what Seth says at face value. I don't see him tell people to take their problems and shove it up their tailpipes; he attempts to address them and offers an opportunity for private dialogue to resolve any issue. That's what I would expect from a company that does care about customer service; a public forum is no place to resolve individual complaints (mass production defects, sure). Any claims of criminal acts or conspiracy on his part are speculative at best, libelous at worst.

Everyone will gloss over this point, but I'm NOT on Seth Hiatt's side. I'm on the side of treating every company fairly, and for consumers to do their research and making intelligent decisions with their money. If someone doesn't trust a company, don't give it any money...it's not that difficult to do.
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SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm not. Fill me in?

Just google "sphiatt".
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CapAp wrote:
SixteenBlue wrote:

I'm not. Fill me in?

Just google "sphiatt".


Ok this is ridiculous. Why would anyone ever give them money? I cancelled my one and only order with them when I heard a single story. The fact that there are dozens is just absurd.
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CapAp wrote:
J.L.Robert wrote:
Any claims of criminal acts or conspiracy on his part are speculative at best, libelous at worst.

Are you familiar with his ebay history?


I don't need to. With as many instances as have been reported here, I know well enough to be wary.

CapAp wrote:
Quote:
I'm willing to take what Seth says at face value.

Mayday depends on rubes like you.


If he depends on consumers like me, he'll go poor fast.
 
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mayday wrote:

She is a great writer and we are branching out into book publishing with her first book in June.




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