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Subject: Call to Remove Special Editions from Rankings? rss

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Tom P
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Surely special editions of board games should not be considered to be independent games since a lot of the negative ratings are filtered out. Including them is similar to including expansions in the BGG rankings.

For example, it looks rather odd to have two different editions of War of the Ring in the top 4 of the thematic rankings.

If different edition are allowed to be considered independent games where do we draw the line? Which editions of which games are allowed to be independent, who selects this and based on what?
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Paul DeStefano
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If a game has horrible components and I rate it a 6, but the special edition is an 8 due to better stuff that actually makes the play better, then it really does deserve a different entry.

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Imp Rovius
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BoardGameGeek » Forums » Gaming Related » General Gaming
Re: Call to Remove Special Editions from Rankings?
I'm ok with leaving them as they are. Quality of components, for example, is a legitimate factor in reviewing a game, so I think it's perfectly valid for different editions to have different rankings.
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Tom P
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I understand the point about quality of components, but how is it decided which editions of which games "deserve" to be independent.
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steven slater
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Its valid to ask why the Special edition of someboard game or otehr where the major differacne is componets is a seperate entry whilst (for example) history of the world (where there are actual differances in design) has only one entry.
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Andres F. Pabon L.
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I understand different editions of a game could have different ratings. Not only special editions, but also regular ones that can vary a lot. Take Acquire, for example, where the rating would surely depend on the edition.

The problem, though, is that if everything was ideal for this kinds of issues, Acquire would have 5+ entries in the database. That would be 5+ times it could potentially appear in a top 100 or 200, or whatever list, thus somehow tainting the end desired result, which is to see a list of unique games, as ranked by BGG users.

Couldn't there be some kind of compromise there? Perhaps allowing users to rate editions separately, but having some sort of algorhythm averaging all editions to form a unique number for each game, regardless of the edition?
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Rich Shipley
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I thought this was what versions were for. Many games have several editions with various differences. A version with only upgraded components does not deserve a separate entry.
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Mark L
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Geosphere wrote:
If a game has horrible components and I rate it a 6, but the special edition is an 8 due to better stuff that actually makes the play better, then it really does deserve a different entry.


I can see that you might rate a special edition differently, and that maybe justifies it having a separate entry (but as others have pointed out, "regular" editions can vary a lot too, yet they don't get separate entries).

But I definitely don't agree that it deserves to be separately eligible for the rankings.

Expansions have separate entries, but aren't eligible for the rankings. For example, I rate "vanilla" Carcassonne as an 8-9, but Carcassonne with the Inns & Cathedrals expansion a 10. To me, they're nearly two different games.
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Andres F. Pabon L.
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rshipley wrote:
I thought this was what versions were for. Many games have several editions with various differences. A version with only upgraded components does not deserve a separate entry.


The problem is you can't rate versions. Or at least, I have no idea how...
 
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Rich Shipley
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bacusgod wrote:
rshipley wrote:
I thought this was what versions were for. Many games have several editions with various differences. A version with only upgraded components does not deserve a separate entry.


The problem is you can't rate versions. Or at least, I have no idea how...


Rate whichever version you want to.
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Witek Wasilewski
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Some say that special editions deserve separate entry because of completely remade components - take a look at Boomtown - there is Polish edition which is rethemed to pirate genre - and that one didnt deserve separate entry.

About special editions containing expansions already built in - again many Polish editions would have separate entries (Puerto Rico).

Will 2nd edition of Le Havre with expansion built in get separate entry ?

This can be a problem who record their plays and want to have plays of both normal and special edition under one entry.
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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heifetz wrote:
war of the ring stands out for me in this sense. I find it hard to believe that the coolness of all the parts and stuff make it more thematic, and therefore a higher thematic rating, than the original version.

I find it hard to believe that anyone would think the incredibly nice components would not make it feel more thematic than the original.
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Daniel Corban
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I noticed this problem with Puerto Rico: Limited Anniversary Edition being #29 in the overall game rankings. I am not going to kill myself over this, but it does seem ridiculous to have the same game twice in the rankings.

I understand the desire to have them in separate entries, but they should definitely be excluded from the main rankings.
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bacusgod wrote:
rshipley wrote:
I thought this was what versions were for. Many games have several editions with various differences. A version with only upgraded components does not deserve a separate entry.


The problem is you can't rate versions. Or at least, I have no idea how...

Easier to take a rational approach and not take the general ratings seriously. Do grammy awards make you think you need Justin Bieber records?
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dcorban wrote:
I noticed this problem with Puerto Rico: Limited Anniversary Edition being #29 in the overall game rankings. I am not going to kill myself over this, but it does seem ridiculous to have the same game twice in the rankings.

I understand the desire to have them in separate entries, but they should definitely be excluded from the main rankings.

Why? Because it will move game x from 347 to 348 in the rankings? So what?
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Daniel Corban
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Sphere wrote:
dcorban wrote:
I noticed this problem with Puerto Rico: Limited Anniversary Edition being #29 in the overall game rankings. I am not going to kill myself over this, but it does seem ridiculous to have the same game twice in the rankings.

I understand the desire to have them in separate entries, but they should definitely be excluded from the main rankings.

Why? Because it will move game x from 347 to 348 in the rankings? So what?


I didn't say that I personally cared, so I will leave it to the people who do care to describe why. I just know that some people do care, so why not fix it for them? The "so what" people won't notice, right?
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Chapel
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Settlers of Catan. All of these has ONE entry, all of them with different components and level of stuff:










And then there is the Settler Special Edition with it's own entry.



Why is that again?
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Carl Garber
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It would be neat if they could set up a link in the rankings for family of games. One could rate the family which would place in the BGG rankings and then if the link was entered there would be a place for people to rank the various expansions/versions against each other. Is this a crazy idea with holes I can't see? I feel this would make things better for all.
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S. Turner
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I would imagine that 'special editions' suffer from selection bias. People probably aren't going to purchase the fancy $100 edition of a $35 game unless they really like it. Although that might also tend to push the geek rating down since the sample size would be small.

For example, look at the ratings distribution of Puerto Rico vs Puerto Rico: Limited Anniversary Edition.

For the original, the ratings distribution is:
7: 3353
8: 8671
9: 7180
10: 5067

For the anniversery edition:
7: 29
8: 177
9: 217
10: 327
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Simon Lundström
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Geosphere wrote:
If a game has horrible components and I rate it a 6, but the special edition is an 8 due to better stuff that actually makes the play better, then it really does deserve a different entry.


I disagree in full.

Components are important in a game, but they are not part of the abstract concept of "a game", which by many reasons (mostly regarding the game forums, rules questions, variants, session reports) is the best way to let each [game] on BGG represent.

The site has functions for versions and how you can rate each version (edition) of a game separately. There is no reason to have different editions of the same basic game separated, or having the same game several times in the overall ranking list; having the highest ranked edition is enough. Files and

There is much to lose from splitting the game forums for one game and let a "game" in BGG instead be an "edition". Things like rating different editions differently, marking which expansions that work with which editions etc can be solved in much smoother ways.
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Andrew Foerster
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dcorban wrote:
I didn't say that I personally cared, so I will leave it to the people who do care to describe why. I just know that some people do care, so why not fix it for them? The "so what" people won't notice, right?

The so what is about the 1 point move in the ratings. I have both the first edition and the collector's edition of WotR, and think it makes perfectly good sense to list them separately. The rules differ as well as the components, and I list them both as 'owned' in my collection, track plays for them separately, etc.
 
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Geert Vinaskov
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First Dutch edition of Dominion wasn't translated very well. I think it needs a seperate entry, so I can rate it separately.

Edit: How long will it take to have both Puerto Rico and Puerto Rico SE in the top ten? whistle
 
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rshipley wrote:
I thought this was what versions were for. Many games have several editions with various differences. A version with only upgraded components does not deserve a separate entry.

YEs, but a game which has several (or all) expansions integrated into one single box does deserve it. Peurto Rico, WotR:CE, and others share this trait. Other games with only upgraded or different components, but no different RULES do not. At least that's what the general consensus (by the Admins) on this issue was.
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bacusgod wrote:
rshipley wrote:
I thought this was what versions were for. Many games have several editions with various differences. A version with only upgraded components does not deserve a separate entry.


The problem is you can't rate versions. Or at least, I have no idea how...

You can RATE them, but versions do not show up or take part in the RANKings, only base games do.
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