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Subject: Man Im going to play these war games rss

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sebastian Chavez
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well after buying many war games I got the Plexi and got the room for the maps for any game and sit to read the directions and man if those things dont put me to sleep , and I have all the popular games ASL starters and the full ASL , Lock and Load ,and more and I just cant get with the rules , Gees I want to be a war gamer and I know have to wade through rule books is a BIG part of it , my college education cant even get me their and my wife is supportive , I know this might be a very stupid question but how do guys do it when it comes to read a rule book , what keeps you interested . like "fields of fire" , I got through four pages of it , I felt like I was better of listening to my Mother-law LOLOLOLOL so I hope you feel my pain but with a bit of humor I can get through it thanks even before you can help me SC
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Leo Zappa
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For me, it's taking in these books in tiny, bite-sized bits! My brain goes blank if I try to read a 30 page wargame rulebook from cover to cover in a single sitting. I'd suggest reading one section a night (e.g. Section 5.0 - Combat), and take a few nights off in between sections. This is my current approach to the rulebook for Europe Engulfed. Last night I read the first three sections, and tonight I took the night off and watched a hockey game. Tomorrow, I'll pick it back up and read a few more sections.

Also, another thing that can help is to set up the game and move a few pieces solitaire to practice the rules you are reading. I find it helps me to visualize the intent of the rule section I'm reading.
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Andrew Laws
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I have to read the rules with the game out in front of me. Read the movement rules, move some chits. Read the fire rules, do some shooting. Gradually work up to a whole turn of play.

I could have the rules to a game explained in a crashing aeroplane and I'd get it, but when I have to learn it myself it's a loooooong process.
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Robert Stuart
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Wargames » Forums » General
Re: Man Im going to play these war games
You would choose ASL!

I gather you haven't played wargames before, or at least, not tactical games.

OK: Take Dr. Bob's remedy for tactical game rule-book ennui.

(1) download a copy of the Valor & Victory rules. Start playing the ASL scenarios with the V&V rules, making whatever obvious adjustments need to be made. Make one change to V&V rules:

In close assaults against cities or prepared positions, the defender rolls first, as if he's the attacker. The attacker takes whatever losses come from this, the defender none, and then the attacker attacks normally with his remaining strength (if any).

If the assault is in open ground, both sides roll simultaneously, as if each were the attacker, with each side taking the maximum losses from either battle. (ie, if the defender, in his 'attack', destroys the attacker, and the attacker, likewise, destroys the defender, both sides are eliminated).

(2) You will enjoy this. Continue playing ASL with V&V rules for as long as you like. Invite friends over to join you. Invite your wife to participate in your investment.

(3) After you've had a thoroughly enjoyable day, or month, or year, doing this, take the rules of Starter Pack 1 -- just those rules -- and replay some of those scenarios with those rules.

(4) Progress from there as you see fit.

What if even the V&V rules are too much for you to get your head around? You could be suffering from PWCAS (Printed Word Comprehension-Absorption Syndrome). No problem.

Invite a friend over for dinner or an afternoon snack.

Afterwards, over one of your favorite drinks, tell him to read the V&V rulebook (right then, in your lounge, while you set up the first scenario, go out and mow the lawn, watch basketball, or whatever). Then, the two of you play your first game, while he explains the rules to you. Once you play the first game, with him explaining the rules, you will find yourself able to absorb them on your own.

From then on, people will be asking YOU how to play the game, and you will be writing articles for BGG giving advice on how to get into ASL.




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Jonathan Harrison
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The more you do it, the easier it gets. Pretty soon those rulebooks will start to look like old friends, and new rulebooks like new ones. It's just a matter of revving up your brain—keep it in gear with rulebook reading, and you'll soon be motoring along in fifth with no problem.

You would start with ASL, though.
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Jonathan Harrison
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I'll echo what HMS says about learning with the parts out, though. Best way to do it for some, and I'm one of them.
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Val Ruza
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ASL is a great place to start, but it sounds like you feel overwhelmed. Put away everything except Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1. There are only 11 pages of rules to read, and there are a lot of pictures included so it is even less than it sounds. The first scenario Retaking Vierville does not even use any special weapons, so no demolitions charge, or flamethrower, or machine guns. As a result you could skip that on your first read through the rules. You can also look for local ASL players either through meet up groups or a google search. I believe there is a group in the area called Silicon Valley Advanced Squad Leader Wargamers.
Welcome to the enjoyable world of ASL!
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David
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For me, learning a new ruleset is highly enjoyable (albeit sometimes frustrating). It's all part of the experience of wargaming. More than a few nights a week I am reading rules for fun.
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Stig Morten
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I Read the rules, either the whole rulebook in one sitting or in chunks, then I usually play through a few turns Or a full game solo to better understand the intricasies of the rules. Then I Read the rules again and relates the different sections to the solo game I played. Then repeat the process if needed, or Ask questions here on bgg. Lots of helpful people in the gameforums.

For me the real problem is how to play it Well, not how to play it currently.

Good luck!
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HarlemMimeSchool wrote:
I have to read the rules with the game out in front of me. Read the movement rules, move some chits. Read the fire rules, do some shooting. Gradually work up to a whole turn of play. [...]


That's what I'd recommend (not a wargamer, a gamer who plays wargames, FWIW).
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Kurt Metzler
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If you are looking for a good way into the ASLSK system, you may want to check out the 2 Half-Squads Podcast. They posted an episode called Newbie-Do#1 which went through ASLSK scenario 1 and illustrated how turns proceed and how the rules work together.

Here is the link to their site. You will need to scroll down to the EXTRAS section and locate the Newbie-Do #1 audio file.

http://www.the2halfsquads.com/p/quick-access.html
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Eric Walters
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bob_santafe wrote:
You would choose ASL!

I gather you haven't played wargames before, or at least, not tactical games.

OK: Take Dr. Bob's remedy for tactical game rule-book ennui.

(1) download a copy of the Valor & Victory rules. Start playing the ASL scenarios with the V&V rules, making whatever obvious adjustments need to be made. Make one change to V&V rules:

In close assaults against cities or prepared positions, the defender rolls first, as if he's the attacker. The attacker takes whatever losses come from this, the defender none, and then the attacker attacks normally with his remaining strength (if any).

If the assault is in open ground, both sides roll simultaneously, as if each were the attacker, with each side taking the maximum losses from either battle. (ie, if the defender, in his 'attack', destroys the attacker, and the attacker, likewise, destroys the defender, both sides are eliminated).

(2) You will enjoy this. Continue playing ASL with V&V rules for as long as you like. Invite friends over to join you. Invite your wife to participate in your investment.

(3) After you've had a thoroughly enjoyable day, or month, or year, doing this, take the rules of Starter Pack 1 -- just those rules -- and replay some of those scenarios with those rules.

(4) Progress from there as you see fit.

What if even the V&V rules are too much for you to get your head around? You could be suffering from PWCAS (Printed Word Comprehension-Absorption Syndrome). No problem.

Invite a friend over for dinner or an afternoon snack.

Afterwards, over one of your favorite drinks, tell him to read the V&V rulebook (right then, in your lounge, while you set up the first scenario, go out and mow the lawn, watch basketball, or whatever). Then, the two of you play your first game, while he explains the rules to you. Once you play the first game, with him explaining the rules, you will find yourself able to absorb them on your own.

From then on, people will be asking YOU how to play the game, and you will be writing articles for BGG giving advice on how to get into ASL.


I second this excellent piece of advice. Seriously, this will work.
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Martí Cabré

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The more wargame systems you know, the easier it is to learn new systems.

At first it can be daunting, but the effort is worth it. Try first with an easy wargame, you'll have time enough to go the complex ones. The read all the rulebook like a book, even if you don't understand things. Skip those parts that really you don't get.

Once you've finished the rulebook you've got a whole view of it. Sometimes rulebooks are not well structured and you need knowledge of the latter sections in order to understand the first sections.

Now check the map and the pieces. You should be able to understand most of what's in the map and most of what the colors, symbols and numbers in the counters mean. Check the rulebook for help.

Then read the rulebook again trying to understand everything. Mark with a pencil important definitions, use the index if it has one, try to make everything clear. Help yourself with the map and the counters if need be. Move a few counters following examples. That helps.

Finally always choose the easy scenario of the game for a solo play. Try to understand how the game is played, even if you don't have a clue about the winning strategy.

And that's it! You know how to play. The connect to VASSAL or find a face to face opponent and enjoy.
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Kevin Conway
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I usually start with a cursory reading of the rules. However, like several posters above mentioned, I don't really get anywhere until I've set up the game on the table and worked things through step by step. I usually have a difficult time concentrating on just learning the game when reading the book the first time. I have the oftentimes crippling tendency to continually try to figure out why the rule is there, and how to play optimally right from the start. I end up in a loop of trying to think about how to play the game well when I don't even know how to play the game yet. I've put down many a rulebook in frustration, only to not touch the game for a year or so, then try it again.

Now that we have space in the house, and some plexi sheets, I always set stuff up and fiddle with the pieces as I read. The tactile elements of playing through the game has vastly improved my ability to focus on just learning the rules, and not worry about making the best game decisions.

This might seem too obvious to mention, but I also soak up as much knowledge as I can from everyone here on BGG. I've gotten massive benefit from reading through AAR's that people have posted for games that I happen to be learning.

Example: while I've been immersing myself into learning the Operational Combat Series lately, I've been helped immensely by two sources in particular. One is this DAK2 thread that stepped through the sequence of play in great detail, which was great for getting a precise look at the mechanics of a turn. The second is calandale's play-through of Burma. Here I was able to get an invaluable "big picture" of what an OCS player is trying to accomplish during a game.
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John Foley
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The tried-and-true (very common) approach is what both LZ and HMS have described. HMS has it succinctly:

Quote:
I have to read the rules with the game out in front of me. Read the movement rules, move some chits. Read the fire rules, do some shooting. Gradually work up to a whole turn of play.


Literally absorb in small chunks and then push bits and pieces of the rules. Rinse, repeat, integrate, rinse, repeat and then the most important thing: DO THIS WITH ANOTHER GAMER LIVE.

We frequently designate "learning games" for new rules sets where we know ahead of time we're just pushing counters around. If you can find someone who has a similar "learning mindset" then you can conquer ANY rule set.
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Paul Franklin
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As one poster above mentioned, the more rulesets you assimilate the quicker and easier the following ones will go (especially for Mr. Berg's games). With that in mind, you might want to try to start with smaller rulesets.

My first recommendation would be the Napoleonic 20 series. Despite the density of text on the page, the rules are quite simple and with only a single page of special rules per battle, it makes a very easy ruleset to get comfortable with.

Decision Games Folio series have nice small approachable rulebooks. They aren't the greatest games available, but they're not a bad place to start. I've played through a few games of this, and you will encounter questions, but that's part of being a wargamer too. Hop on BGG or CSW and do some research to find your answers.

Some of the older Avalon Hill games (e.g. PanzerBlitz) have nice small rulesets too. Find some of these and give them a whirl.

Jumping into the deep end of the pool is one way to learn, their are easier ways. Be glad you're not like me. It usually takes me three times through a ruleset to really grok it. That makes for a lot of reading. cool
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Michael Heagerty
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mtrddog wrote:
well after buying many war games I got the Plexi and got the room for the maps for any game and sit to read the directions and man if those things dont put me to sleep , and I have all the popular games ASL starters and the full ASL , Lock and Load ,and more and I just cant get with the rules , Gees I want to be a war gamer and I know have to wade through rule books is a BIG part of it , my college education cant even get me their and my wife is supportive , I know this might be a very stupid question but how do guys do it when it comes to read a rule book , what keeps you interested . like "fields of fire" , I got through four pages of it , I felt like I was better of listening to my Mother-law LOLOLOLOL so I hope you feel my pain but with a bit of humor I can get through it thanks even before you can help me SC


I've heard Fields of Fire has a terrible rulebook.

Do you have anybody to play with? Get them to read the rules and teach the game to you. That's what I do.

Of the games you mentioned I think Lock and Load would be the easiest to grasp, and it's the only one of them that I've actually played. But I didn't read the rules. Had another guy do it. I really do recommend that.
 
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Jeff Perrella
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mtrddog wrote:
well after buying many war games I got the Plexi and got the room for the maps for any game and sit to read the directions and man if those things dont put me to sleep , and I have all the popular games ASL starters and the full ASL , Lock and Load ,and more and I just cant get with the rules , Gees I want to be a war gamer and I know have to wade through rule books is a BIG part of it , my college education cant even get me their and my wife is supportive , I know this might be a very stupid question but how do guys do it when it comes to read a rule book , what keeps you interested . like "fields of fire" , I got through four pages of it , I felt like I was better of listening to my Mother-law LOLOLOLOL so I hope you feel my pain but with a bit of humor I can get through it thanks even before you can help me SC


I feel your pain, brother. I feel the exact same way.
 
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M·ANTONIVS·M·F·M·N
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Judging by the op's command of the language, I'd say he might be one of the editors of the FoF rulebook.

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Jonathan Harrison
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For shame! Why say something like that? yuk

Are you interested in driving people away from the hobby?

If you put down one of my opponents like that, I'd put you out of supply. And the OP is going to become somebody's opponent.

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HuginnGreiling wrote:

Are you interested in driving people away from the hobby?



Maybe.

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Kevin Horner
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Hi Welcome to the wonderful world of ASL!

To add to some great advice already up there, start with Starter Kit 1.

Go to this page

Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1

There is a brilliant tutorial by Jay Richardson and also video files to explain the basics.

Whilst the rules seem daunting at first, once you have played a few times it becomes a lot easier.
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I recently tried to play my first game of Fields of Fire after attending the live demo on vassal, watching a multi-hour walk-through (twice) and playing through a briefer one. I immediately hit the wall when a situation occurred that managed to not be covered by either walk-through and I couldn't find it in the rulebook.
 
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Jonathan Harrison
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Did you have the new, revised rulebook available from GMT's website?
 
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Michael Heagerty
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jackster111uk wrote:
Hi Welcome to the wonderful world of ASL!

To add to some great advice already up there, start with Starter Kit 1.

Go to this page

Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1

There is a brilliant tutorial by Jay Richardson and also video files to explain the basics.

Whilst the rules seem daunting at first, once you have played a few times it becomes a lot easier.


Am I correct in that ASL SK is fairly complex, it's just not as complex as full ASL? As in it has the same number of phases?
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