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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne» Forums » Strategy

Subject: First game with Ghost of Creuss rss

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Brian Petersen
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Except that the wormhole moves to the destination system when the Hil Colish is moving, as per its card. So the Hil Colish always has 2 movement when it's moving to an adjacent system. If it tries moving 2 away, it needs another wormhole in or adjacent to it or Gravity Rift adjacent to it.
 
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Alwin Derijck
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I don't understand your explanation.

The full description of the card is:

"You may treat this ship's system as if it had a D wormhole in it. When this ship is moving, treat its destination system as if it had the Wormhole".

So at the time of the activation of a system, Hil Colish is adjacent to the Home system D wormhole, as per line 1 of the cards text.

Then it zaps to the activated system (at speed 2) and "restarts" it's wormhole generator to reconnect with the D-wormhole, as per line 2 of the card.

The alternative is that it cannot use the D wormhole to enhance it's speed and then it will need an A or B wormhole (or adjacent Gravity Rift) like any other ship in the game.

Are you saying it is the latter, so it acts like any other ship in the game for this purpose?
 
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Scott Lewis
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Alwin wrote:
The alternative is that it cannot use the D wormhole to enhance it's speed and then it will need an A or B wormhole (or adjacent Gravity Rift) like any other ship in the game.

The Creuss' own ships can use the Hil Colish "D" wormhole; no other player can (because only the Creuss player can make use of it).

As for the question, though, I would say the Flagship itself CANNOT use it's own D-Wormhole (nor the D-Wormhole on the other side) to get the benefits of Gravity Drive. The FAQ has an entry on page 13 that discusses this wormhole. Among other things, it states:

- When Hil Colish moves, the wormhole is considered to be in the DESTINATION system only; thus, the D-Wormhole is not in the Hil Colish' system, and thus it's not adjacent to the "other" D-Wormhole. If moving to an adjacent system, the new D-Wormhole would be in that system, and you probably wouldn't need the extra move anyway.
- Regardless, the FAQ also says "The Hil Colish cannot use the "D" Wormhole it generates." I don't think this just means to move through it, but for any purpose. Which makes sense - since it's the source of the new wormhole, it really couldn't gravity-whip around it.
 
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Brian Petersen
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Yes, I'm saying it's the latter.

The wormhole cannot be both at the Hil Colish and its destination at the same time. The only way it gets to use its own D wormhole to increase its speed is to move to an adjacent system through another adjacent system, or to move to an adjacent system (not through the D wormhole) and back (in this case, the wormhole is in both origin and destination, because they are the same system).
 
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Scott Lewis
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TomBoombs wrote:
Yes, I'm saying it's the latter.

The wormhole cannot be both at the Hil Colish and its destination at the same time. The only way it gets to use its own D wormhole to increase its speed is to move to an adjacent system through another adjacent system, or to move to an adjacent system (not through the D wormhole) and back (in this case, the wormhole is in both origin and destination, because they are the same system).

I would say even then, the FAQ statement of "The Hil Colish cannot use the “D” Wormhole it generates." would still apply.
 
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Fedor Syagin
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sigmazero13 wrote:
TomBoombs wrote:
Yes, I'm saying it's the latter.

The wormhole cannot be both at the Hil Colish and its destination at the same time. The only way it gets to use its own D wormhole to increase its speed is to move to an adjacent system through another adjacent system, or to move to an adjacent system (not through the D wormhole) and back (in this case, the wormhole is in both origin and destination, because they are the same system).

I would say even then, the FAQ statement of "The Hil Colish cannot use the “D” Wormhole it generates." would still apply.


This actually would be important! having 2 movement can be beneficial even when you moving to the system directly adjacent (since you don't have to take most direct route and you might want to get to another adjacent system and let's say pick up some ground forces!)
So it would be important to know if he cannot use it in general or get benefit only if activate system adjacent.
Most of the times I think it won't matter anyway and there are better way like using racial tech to put wormhole there...

 
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Brian Petersen
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I think that that phrase is used to restrict the Hil Colish from picking stuff (mainly GFs/FFs) up in the HS through Transfer Actions or 3 movement (move to adjacent system now containing D wormhole (needs 4 techs to LWD for it to be super strong), into HS, then back to the adjacent system).

At any rate, most of the time, a carrier that would also have 2-3 movement would be able to make any maneuver the Hil Colish could, (possibly even depositing Fighters onto the Flagship in the process).
 
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Scott Lewis
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Honestly, I think the phrase was put there to make it so that OTHER ships could benefit from it, but it wasn't really meant to benefit the Hil Colish itself.

While thematics definitely aren't a basis for mechanics, thematically it wouldn't make sense that the Hil Colish could slingshot off it's own wormhole, since it seems to imply the wormhole is somewhat "tethered" to the flagship. (I think of it as the Hil Colish having a wormhole gate thing that it can turn on and off. When it moves, it turns it off due to the power it consumes, but turns it back on when it arrives at its destination).
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TJ
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Don't forget. The same wormhole token cannot be moved more than once per game round.
 
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Scott Lewis
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Twilight Imperium (Third Edition): Shards of the Throne » Forums » Strategy
Re: First game with Ghost of Creuss
knightfall316 wrote:
Don't forget. The same wormhole token cannot be moved more than once per game round.

Indeed, though that only becomes an issue if the Nekro Virus are also in play, because that's the only way two moves could be made anyway
 
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Tony
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Was there ever an official ruling posted about the adjacency of wormholes with respect to the Gravity Drive tech??

My last TI3 game, I played as the ghosts, and we played with ships benefiting from the bonus movement while in a system containing a wormhole... We used a very literal interpretation of the rules, and I found the ghost to be extremely mobile; virtually being able to move anywhere on the board with 1 activation.

I won that game, and after reading through this thread, would probably advocate for Gravity Drive NOT providing the bonus movement while in a wormhole system.

I think a good thematic interpretation of the rules can be more beneficial then a literal one.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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If you are in a wormhole space, then you are adjacent to the wormhole at the other end, and thus 'adjacent to a wormhole'. Unless you have an odd unmatched wormhole of course.
 
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Roberto Armentia
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Rioghan wrote:
Was there ever an official ruling posted about the adjacency of wormholes with respect to the Gravity Drive tech??


Last page of the FAQ: "Q: Does a ship in a Wormhole system or the Gravity Rift receive the +1 movement bonus from Gravity Drive? A: A ship in a Wormhole system receives the bonus if there is another Wormhole connecting to it. A ship in a Gravity Rift does not receive the bonus unless that system is adjacent to a system containing another Gravity Rift or a Wormhole."
 
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Scott Lewis
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Kelanen wrote:
If you are in a wormhole space, then you are adjacent to the wormhole at the other end, and thus 'adjacent to a wormhole'. Unless you have an odd unmatched wormhole of course.

That's one nice thing about the Nexus - it ensures there are no unmatched wormholes
 
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Roberto Armentia
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So, summarizing... If you have gravity drive, then:

1. All ships in a non-wormhole system adjacent to a wormhole system or ending movement there get +1 movement.

2. All ships in a wormhole system or ending movement here get +1 movement if there is another matching wormhole system (therefore adjacent) somewhere else.

3. Creuss ships in a D wormhole or adjacent to it or ending movement there or here will always have +1 movement.

4. Creuss flagship will always have a base movement of 1 (not counting modifiers) unless meeting one of the above statements.

5. Given statements 3 and 4, the Creuss flagship must always activate an adjacent system in order to move (if not meeting statements 1 and 2) and, for example, a Creuss destroyer with a base movement of 1 may move 2 systems away from a system adjacent to a D wormhole to the system activated by the flagship which is also a D wormhole.

And 6. If you activate the Creuss flagship system, that Creuss destroyer above may move also 2 spaces to this system.

And 7!! All ships adjacent to the Creuss flagship system or ending movement adjacent to it get also +1 movement!!??

Is this correct?

EDITED to add statements 6 and 7 and to update other statements accordingly.
LAST EDIT: strikethrough.
 
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Jonathan Challis
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sigmazero13 wrote:
Kelanen wrote:
If you are in a wormhole space, then you are adjacent to the wormhole at the other end, and thus 'adjacent to a wormhole'. Unless you have an odd unmatched wormhole of course.

That's one nice thing about the Nexus - it ensures there are no unmatched wormholes


Playing with large galaxy, domain counters and final frontiers, I think I've only ever once seen an unmatched wormhole on the mainboard. We always play with the Nexus, so nothing is ever truly unmatched anyway.
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Jeff S
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robertcop2 wrote:
So, summarizing... If you have gravity drive, then:

1. All ships in a non-wormhole system adjacent to a wormhole system or ending movement there get +1 movement.

2. All ships in a wormhole system or ending movement here get +1 movement if there is another matching wormhole system (therefore adjacent) somewhere else.

3. Creuss ships in a D wormhole or adjacent to it or ending movement there or here will always have +1 movement.

4. Creuss flagship will always have a base movement of 1 (not counting modifiers) unless meeting one of the above statements.

5. Given statements 3 and 4, the Creuss flagship must always activate an adjacent system in order to move (if not meeting statements 1 and 2) and, for example, a Creuss destroyer with a base movement of 1 may move 2 systems away from a system adjacent to a D wormhole to the system activated by the flagship which is also a D wormhole.

And 6. If you activate the Creuss flagship system, that Creuss destroyer above may move also 2 spaces to this system.

And 7!! All ships adjacent to the Creuss flagship system or ending movement adjacent to it get also +1 movement!!??

Is this correct?

EDITED to add statements 6 and 7 and to update other statements accordingly.


Where your move ends is irrelevant. Getting the bonus is based on the unit's starting hex.
 
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Roberto Armentia
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sirjonsnow wrote:
Where your move ends is irrelevant. Getting the bonus is based on the unit's starting hex.


Ah yes sorry, my mind sped up while writing. I just edited above.

It is relevant though if starting in a gravity rift (I mixed ideas here).
 
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