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It Came From The Trashcan!

A blog about stuff that I feel like blogging about, with a healthy dollop of cheese.
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If You're Going To Rip Off Somebody Else's Game Design, Go Big!

Captain Ameritrash
United States
Statesboro
Georgia
I am not Emperor Palpatine. In other news, You Are BANISHED!!!
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I am a maker of things. I enjoy transmuting raw materials into finished products. I like the design phase, the "figuring out how to make it" phase, the "get my hands dirty and craft some stuff" phase, the "using it for its intended purpose" phase, the "showing it off to my friends phase", and even the "have a better idea and make a whole new one" phase. I love collaborating with others as well as working alone, and I love sharing, debating, discussing and tweaking my ideas with others. I have several projects posted on Instructables.com, and I love the community of geeks on that site just as much as the community of geeks here (although for different reasons).

One topic I've always been a little leery about discussing on this site is the idea of crafting personal copies of commercial games. I know it's a hot button for many people, and I've seen members get totally dogpiled for bringing it up, followed by retaliatory dogpiling of the first dogpilers. So for that reason, I've shied away from bringing it up myself.

I was recently reading a session report posted by the always entertaining
Pete Belli
United States

Florida
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about a game called Little Angels and the Fruit of the Spirit that he picked up in a thrift store. For those who are not familiar wth the game, it is a Christian-themed game for young children, which involves moving from start to finish along a colorful path which somehow involves "Fruits of the Spirit", which I gather are a Bible reference of some kind.

It is also Candy Land. Now, let's be clear about this. It is not "similar to" Candy Land, or "using a mechanic from" Candy Land. Is is the same game, with only cosmetic differences and one omitted mechanic which has a minimal impact on gameplay.

Players move their pawns along a winding track composed of six different colors by drawing cards with a colored square on them and moving their piece to the next space of that color. The cards may also have two colored squares, indicating that the player moves forward two spaces, or an icon representing a Fruit of the Spirit, which requires the player to move their pawn to that icon's space on the board, whether it is forward or backwards along the track. There are also two shortcuts which allow players to skip sections of the track if they land on the correct spaces.

Other than theme, the only differences between Little Angels and Candy Land are that Candy Land's track is twelve spaces longer, and Little Angels omits the three spaces that "stick" a pawn in place until a certain color card is drawn. These sticky spaces are replaced with Fruit of the Spirit icons. That's it.

So... what does this have to do with me and my urge to make things? Well, I figured that if a Christian publisher can legally rip off Candy Land, slap on a retheme and sell multiple copies of it for profit, then my little one-of-a-kind, for-personal-use-only handmade copy of Thunder Road must be perfectly fine, right?

Based on the previously mentioned threads, there are many people who would argue that my personal Thunder Road is most definitely not OK, and they are, of course, welcome to hold that opinion. I have long since come to the conclusion that arguing about it is pointless, because the two sides are arguing two different things. To vastly oversimplify, those in favor of homebrewing games are primarily concerned with the legality of the issue, and those opposed are primarily concerned with the ethics/morality of the issue.

It's like arguing about cake vs. pie. Some people like cake better and some people like pie better, because they just do. Telling a pie lover that "cake is better because I believe it is" will not change a single thing, and will just irritate the pie lover. Responding that "pie is perfectly fine, because pie is not illegal" will not inspire the cake lover to go out and eat a big slice of apple pie.

So, now that we've preemptively gotten all of the invective and dogpiling out of the way, we finally come to my question on the topic: Why is there such vocal opposition when a BGG user posts about making a homebrewed game for personal use, but there is no visible opposition at all to Little Angels ripping off Candyland for profit? Or for that matter, where's the letter-writing campaign to prevent Fundex from distributing On The Bubble, which is a transparent copy of Trouble? Or any of the countless other discount-store knockoffs of mass-market games which differ from the original games only in name and component quality? What about all of the other religious rethemes of games?

I would think that a single gamer making a single copy for personal use would be less offensive than a corporation making multple copies for sale, but the single gamer gets browbeat, while the corporation gets their game posted to the DB as an alternate version, with links and pictures, and no invective more vehement that "Meh. This is a knockoff of (original game) and the components suck", if even that.

Does that seem backwards to anyone else besides me?
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Subscribe sub options Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:04 pm
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Dork Fest
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I will simply comment, as I am more of a game pimper than a game re-creator. I don't see a problem with making personalized copies of the game if you already own it. I personally have bought a number of board games for the cards and bits, and then I build my own version of the board and some of the bits. I personally don't see a problem with this as I have paid for the copy and am now simply making it more awesome for my personal use. As long as you have purchased the property and aren't making money off of it, I don't think there's a problem.

Jeremy
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 3:36 pm
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Tyler McLaughlin
Canada
Medicine Hat
Alberta
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Most people who would complain about this sort of thing have a poor understanding of the Law.
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:07 pm
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The neutral evil villain known as
United States
Brownsburg
Indiana
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They have God on their side....

Seriously, If you are making a variant or a pimped out version, I say go for it. one version of ANYTHING you make from scratch, is under artistic license. That's how artists get away with painting mickey mouse. if you just do one, it's an artistic statement. Start mass selling identical COPIES of said painting... then you have a problem with the mouse's lawyers.

I think the outcry is based in the thought that you are "stealing" from game designers, and that they might stop designing and we would have no games. crazy talk.

As for the knockoffs, I would guess that when the BGGers see a professionally produced game, they assume the makers have had permission to do this. Which may not be the case. plus the producer is not there to chastise, you are.

they need to get on that soapbox so they can reach their high horse and talk down to you.
P

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  • Edited Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:19 pm
  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:21 pm
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Anthony Boydell
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I make no bones about being inspired by other games - my most recent project 'Paperclip Railways' wouldn't exist if I hadn't seen and bought String Railway at Essen last year! While MY game is quite different, I am not shy about giving the SR designer a credit in the rule-book!

Credit, if not royalties, where credit is due!

TB
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 4:57 pm
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Dork Fest
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Question: Dominion... Puzzle Strike...

Discuss.
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:39 pm
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Peer Sylvester
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Berlin
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Making a game for personal use is totally fine.

The problem starts when money is involved. Not because the publishers are all so greedy and want to seriously hinder their fans, but in many countries (Germany for example) you can loose the trademark if you dont protect it. Even more: If I allow Ubergeek-Jones to sell his awesome version of my game (because hes a nice guy and because hes a fan and just a gamer) over ebay, and then try to sue a different publisher for selling blatant ripoffs, they can win the case by arguing I allowed Ubergeek-Jones to sell his game (that has been done succesfully).
Thats why companys getting touchy as soon as money is invlved.

And of course there are games clearly inspired by other games - thats always a case-to-case-decision. In the case f Candyland I suspect the idea behind the game is to weak to be protected. More complex work is better protected than easy work.

But that being said: Making your own version is totally fine ninja
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:42 pm
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Peer Sylvester
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Dorkfest wrote:
Question: Dominion... Puzzle Strike...

Discuss.


Nothing to discuss. Different game with the same basic mechanism. Single mechanism are not protected.
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:44 pm
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Dork Fest
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Peerchen wrote:
Dorkfest wrote:
Question: Dominion... Puzzle Strike...

Discuss.


Nothing to discuss. Different game with the same basic mechanism. Single mechanism are not protected.


I agree. Some others do not.
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:57 pm
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Gabe Alvaro
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Berkeley
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I think there is a game-designer bias on this site. There are many designers, would-be, and wanna-be designers on this site. When a designer's work is borrowed, they feel threatened. I think this is why the reaction brings out all of the ethics and morality talk. This then gets compounded by those who actually believe that a designer's game system is protected by anything more than a patent.

Most of them do not seek any kind of patent protection mainly because the cost and/or time to obtain a patent is prohibitively high when compared to the relatively small print runs and revenues in the hobby board game industry. Without a patent they cannot seek shelter and redress in the law, so they seek it in an idea of an unwritten moral code.

Talent borrows, genius steals.
-Oscar Wilde
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  • Edited Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:25 pm
  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:23 pm
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Kenny VenOsdel
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Saint Paul
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Simply put, it takes much less effort to post a comment on a thread than to write a letter to a company.
 
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  • Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:21 pm
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