ekted's brain dump

Not as article-based as my real blog. Not as stream-of-consciousness-based as Twitter. Let's see how this goes...

Recommend

Le Havre: A new 9

Posted by Jim Cote

11 Apr 2011

Jim Cote

(ekted)

United States

Maine

I first played Le Havre a couple of years ago at a convention when it first appeared in the US. I was so annoyed by the many dubious physical and graphical design choices that I was unable to enjoy the game at all. I have since re-learned the game (thanks, Phil!), making a huge mental effort to ignore the board and the chits, and found it quite enjoyable. I have since played two more 2p games, and have increased my rating to a 9. This places it "on the shelf" right next to At the Gates of Loyang, although I don't think I would enjoy it with 4 or 5 because of the chaos factor (as with Agricola).

The tough part is that, if I bought a copy, I'd want to replace the board and chits with my own components. That's a lot to pay ($45 to $50) for a deck of cards (with typos) and a few bits of wood and cardboard discs--plus having to buy extra stuff.

12 Comments

Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:51 pm

Post Comment

Phil

(Quarashi)

United States
Falmouth
Maine

Skyrim = Amazing!!!

O.o

You're most welcome Jim!

Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:54 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Jim Cote

(ekted)

United States

Maine

Mary Ann and I were playing last night, and I said, "Be careful. If we spill food on this game (wink wink), we'll have to buy it."

Posted Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:57 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Matt Davis

(coolpapa)

United States
Upland
California

I 100% agree on player count, partly because of length issues, too. I'd play with 3 other experienced players, but a 5er would likely drive me totally bonkers.

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:06 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Ben

(chally)

United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia

How often do you two get together? I'm stuck in Portland this year and wouldn't mind a change of pace once in a while (I mostly work too long and too often to be readily available).

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:18 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Phil Sauer

(aaxiom)

United States
Willow Street
Pennsylvania

Jim, if I may ask, what is it about Le Havre that you find annoying? I have found the symbols to be clear -- but I will admit to having small frustration with the size of the chits.

But I'm interested, as I value your view on such matters.

Thanks!

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:41 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Filipe Cunha

(endou_kenji)

Brazil
Rio de Janeiro
RJ

The typos been corrected on the newest edition.

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:46 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Jim Cote

(ekted)

United States

Maine

aaxiom wrote:

Well, I'm not sure we overlap on any graphic design issues, but okay...

The chits are the biggest problem:

- They easily flip over when handling, and the side they are on is vitally important.

- The outer pattern is not useful for differentiating chits across the table, more so because the die cut is off by so much.

- The icons are not all differentiable. Clay/bricks are red blobs at a distance. Hides and leather are the SAME icon. WTF?

- Stacking the chits makes them almost uncountable at a distance. Is that 4 or 5 or 6?

- The important information is too small: food value, energy value, shipping value.

The proper solution is a player board with 2 rows of 8 solid color boxes, using cubes in the 8 colors to represent goods. The row closest to the player is for raw goods. Upgrading goods means moving cubes to the forward row. Each goods box contains a large icon for the good type, the food value, energy value, and shipping value. The rows are separated by a box for money and food discs (although a public food track would be preferable). Everything is easily manipulable, countable, and differentiable.

And the board:

- It's mostly a place to organize all the bits that are NOT in play. This should be a huge red flag.

- The offer spaces should be solid color boxes (exactly like the player boards, and with the same information). Then there would be no confusion about what goods go where. Because of the current design, there are often multiple empty boxes right next to goods icons on the DISCS. So you pick up a fish/clay in one motion, then the eye sees a clay icon next to the empty wood space. Oops. I understand that the goods should be moving straight across, but this problem causes a visual disconnect.

- The layout of the boards in general was just a way to cram all the stuff into a rectangular space ignoring any functionality. If that was so important, then why did Agricola get that ridiculous asymmetrical three-board layout (don't even get me started on that one). It's just another example of taking something that looks like the very first prototype of the game was printed and shipped.

The cards are really nice. There's a lot of information on them. It's organized well. The only things I would change would be:

- Change the icons to solid color squares to match the cubes.

- Change the colors of the name frames so the yellow/orange/red and teal/blue/black are more differentiable. Maybe make them more prominent than a simple thin frame.

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:24 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Jim Cote

(ekted)

United States

Maine

endou_kenji wrote:

The typos been corrected on the newest edition.

There's a US version with zero typos?

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 1:25 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Donald Dennis

(Walsfeo)

United States
Pawleys Island
South Carolina

ekted wrote:

The proper solution is ...

Actually, I wish they had used counters the same size as the ones from Jamaica and that were that easy to tell apart because of unique shapes and colors. Counters of that type wouldn't flip on accident, and if they were thick enough you could get an idea of someone's inventory at a glance.

Failing that the idea of pushing cubes from a raw good to processed good would work as well.

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 3:39 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Daniel Corban

(dcorban)

Canada
Newmarket
Ontario

I don't know how many times you have played, but I have been playing this a lot lately. I can't say that the chits flipping over accidentally has ever given anyone trouble. I can't recall a single instance of it happening to me.

I have also had no trouble in discerning what resources the other players have, as long as they are dividing into stacks, which is exactly what everyone does. I can't say that I have ever even looked at the chit border, even though I have the second printing, which doesn't seem to have the die offset problem.

There is really no need to count what other people have, either. The only time I have counted is to see if they have five wood or four iron. In both cases it is fairly easy to see at a glance if they do have enough for the respective ships.

Food/energy/franc isn't important to have prominent on the chit. It would just clutter them more. You will have it memorized after a few plays.

Dude, I have you geekbuddied and have read your blog, but it's almost like you are looking for an excuse to not play this game. In my opinion, nothing you complain about here is something players will even be conscious of after the first or second play.

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:01 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Jim Cote

(ekted)

United States

Maine

dcorban wrote:

Dude, I have you geekbuddied and have read your blog, but it's almost like you are looking for an excuse to not play this game. In my opinion, nothing you complain about here is something players will even be conscious of after the first or second play.

Like I said, I forced myself to ignore the problems, and I like the game. But unlike almost everyone else in the world, I don't "get used to" things. If something is wrong today, it will still bother me in 10 years. And things that I am exposed to all the time (eg BGG's main menu) actually annoy me more every time I have to look at them.

Posted Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:11 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Jim Cote

(ekted)

United States

Maine

We played again tonight. I just happened to be reading the text on the loan card while waiting for my opponent to choose an action. It turns out I've been playing incorrectly. You only pay one franc no matter how many loans you have at interest time. I was in a death spiral at this point, gaining a new loan each turn to pay for all my other loans. But it's much more forgiving than that.

Posted Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:19 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

ekted's brain dump

Le Havre: A new 9

Search

Subscribe

Categories

Contributors