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Gamer in Withdrawl

I spend more time designing games, bagging bits and reading rules than I actually get to PLAY boardgames these days. When video games wont do... now I can blog too!
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Wow. Luna is...um, wow

Brian Cherry
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I was lucky enough to coerce my wife into trying (read: puzzling) out Luna this weekend. I asked her if she felt like trying to learn a new game, and explained to her that it would be a tough one. In the past, I have expressed I found Luna to be tough to figure. The "Why" is unclear. I know the goal is to collect influence, and you can do it about 14 different ways, but I couldn't tell WHY you would pick one over the other.

So, I layed out the game, and she looked rather interested. Good start. Then I showed her the player reference (which, I might add, helps only if you already know HOW to play the game), and she said "um hm". Then I began explaining, in the order of the reference, each of the options you could do.

I told her you could deactivate two novices to do this, this or this. If you have a shrine you only need one. You can move them by deactivaing them and moving them to another island. Or you can move them, without deactivating them using the boat. Or you can use the wave to move them, but then it deactivates them.

She listened very patiently, and said nothing, but "wow". This wasn't a good "wow", as in "wow, am I ever excited to try this". This was "wow"... "that's a lot to digest.

If you watch "Big Bang Theory" and listened to Sheldon's rules for 3-person chess, inluding his new pieces... It was like that.

God love her, she was still willing to play. You see, when I openly tell her that this might be a tough learn, we make coffee and know we are learning a tough game, rather than playing for "fun"... and she's okay with it, as long as she's up for it.

The first round we spent lots of novices swimming, without knowing "why", and the rounds ended a LOT faster than we thought (Generally, you've only got about 3-4 actions, in the first round, before youve used all of your novies ). It went fast. But WHY would you want to put novices in the Temple?? It took some time to see how much of a difference it makes... a big one.

As a side note: moving the Moon Priestess 5 spaces (as per 2-player rules), and the Apostate clockwise to the next occupied island set this game up so every second round, Luna and The 'State would be on the same island...which sux.

By the end, turns flowed quickly, and we ended the game feeling like we knew better HOW to play, if not quite sure WHY we were doing the things we were doing. Also, on my last turn, I had 2 sets of novices on islands where I had the favour, so I decided to use them for council seats (which had been completely neglected for the game). In the end, we tied, and since the council positions break ties I won.

We high fived because we thought there was no way we could tie... and then for me to win with an afterthought was hilarious.

So, any game that ends in a high-five can't be that bad. But, the next day she said, "hey, lets play a game... but not Luna again, okay".

And it was okay, because I didnt really feel like it either. It's a good design, no doubt. Non gamers wont get it. And there's better complex games out there. So, I think, like Vikings... its a good game that I will often THINK about playing, and then pick something else instead. And God help me if I dont play it for awhile and have to try and remember how to play...

Thanks for reading. Till next time I should be known instead as The "Why's" Guy
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Subscribe sub options Mon Jun 6, 2011 5:09 pm
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Rick Baptist
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Good read!

I have to balk at the Vikings/Luna comparison, however. While both are initially difficult to understand, Luna has a lot more levels of difficulty I think (because of all the options) than Vikings. Ironically, once you get past a few rounds (one round in Vikings, really) both play very similar in that they're very quick turns. But to stand on their own, I think Vikings is on gateway level, with Luna a larger step up.

Both games are great!
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  • Posted Mon Jun 6, 2011 5:53 pm
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Judy Krauss
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I just got this game. I will probably play it solo, first.
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  • Posted Mon Jun 6, 2011 6:01 pm
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Paul Grogan
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Luna is one of the better games from Essen 2010.

Yes, at the start it is like "14 different action", but then when you get going, it is a great game and a lot easier 2nd time around. Lots of different strategies, good decisions to be made. Great game
 
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  • Posted Mon Jun 6, 2011 6:33 pm
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Brian Cherry
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SlikkRikk wrote:
Good read!

I have to balk at the Vikings/Luna comparison, however. While both are initially difficult to understand, Luna has a lot more levels of difficulty I think (because of all the options) than Vikings. Ironically, once you get past a few rounds (one round in Vikings, really) both play very similar in that they're very quick turns. But to stand on their own, I think Vikings is on gateway level, with Luna a larger step up.

Both games are great!


I ONLY mentioned Vikings in the sense that I really enjoy the game, but almost never play it. I can picture this happening with Luna, as well. But, I hope I am wrong. I would also add Toledo to that list as well.
 
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  • Posted Mon Jun 6, 2011 7:54 pm
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Rick Baptist
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Brian, play Vikings more!
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  • Posted Mon Jun 6, 2011 10:21 pm
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Ralph Bruhn
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Hi Brian,
I like your blog because it very good describes the feelings that most of the players have at their first game of "Luna".
Why is it so tough to learn, although each single action is so simple? That's easy to answer: You kind of "start in the middle of the game". There's not really time to "learn" the actions one by one, because from the first turn on you have almost all options available - and almost all of them are useful!
And this is the unusual thing - you don't have ONE best option, you have SEVERAL. It's the combination of many actions that makes the difference. And this is almost impossible to see in your first game.

Additional to that the 2-player version is even tougher, because you additionally try to consider the opponents' options, which is less in a 4-player-game.

So if you feel to do "mind sports" again , I recommend to play it again a second time before you forget all the actions. You will see it's much easier than in the first game.

But I agree with Brian: It's surely more complex than Vikings ...

One more thing: You wrote:
"As a side note: moving the Moon Priestess 5 spaces (as per 2-player rules), and the Apostate clockwise to the next occupied island set this game up so every second round, Luna and The 'State would be on the same island...which sux."
I didn't understand why this should happen so often? And you can push the Apostate with a Novice (maybe you forget this option in you're first game).
By the way - I like it when there is more than one figure on an island and you have to decide which of them you consider...devil
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  • Posted Tue Jun 7, 2011 7:55 am
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Brian Cherry
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SlikkRikk wrote:
Brian, play Vikings more!


I try! We enjoy it everty time we play it. Admittedly, I need to try it with the advanced rules. My wife likes the simplicity of the basic game, but maybe thats what's keeping it off the "must play" list.
 
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  • Posted Tue Jun 7, 2011 2:06 pm
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Brian Cherry
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Thanks Ralph,

I really appreciate you stopping by and offering your advice. It's nice to see someone involved in the game helping others. It shows great pride in your work.

As for the Apostate, when Luna is present with the Apostate, I decided I would not spend any of my novices to expel him, because then I would lose the 5 points that Luna would grant to my opponent who had 2 novices active there. With more novices in play it would be more easily taken care of. This being our first game we did not recruit enough novices early enough.

Thanks for your help. I'll make sure you update you all on our progress after we play this again (and as you said, I will make sure it is before we forget how to play!)

B
 
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  • Posted Tue Jun 7, 2011 2:11 pm
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Nice post, was directed here by a friend that just got the game and we had 4 new people playing at the end of a game day (well one of the people had played before but wasn't clear on a lot of things so call him new).

The end results was very much the feeling you describe. A lot of actions but not clarity on what you should have been accomplishing with them. It was round 2 before one of us figured out moving a novice to the temple would be a lot of points over time and probably round 4 before others noticed how many points that player was getting and began grabbing temple tiles.

But since the play I have thought, well, what if I did this, or how about that. I think in the long run it is a game where you need to pick one of the many available strategies and play it. And it changes each game, with your shrines giving you an edge on a particular Holy Isle then the Master Builder allowing you to add shrines only to certain others. This means Bribery may be a cheap strategy in one game and a costly strategy in another.

Ah, see how much I typed. I think Luna is best played the first time conversationally, "Hey, what about this strategy" and once basic strategies are discovered in that style play future games, as players employ those and discover even more strategies, will be amazing.

I, too, am in a bit of a confused state as described after my first game, but boy, oh boy, I feel it has potential.
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  • Posted Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:46 pm
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Brian Cherry
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The J wrote:
I, too, am in a bit of a confused state as described after my first game, but boy, oh boy, I feel it has potential.


Great timing! I had wanted to repost here to say that my wife and I played 2 more games this weekend, and after a week of thinking about it, we had a much better idea of what we were doing. It FEELS somewhat arbitrary, but in reality is very calutated. I liked it much better this time. However, I'm not really sure how I could get others into the game without them feeling completely overwhelemed their first time. Definitely a gamers-game.
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  • Posted Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:07 pm
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Leif Norcott
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SlikkRikk wrote:
Good read!

I have to balk at the Vikings/Luna comparison, however. While both are initially difficult to understand, Luna has a lot more levels of difficulty I think (because of all the options) than Vikings. Ironically, once you get past a few rounds (one round in Vikings, really) both play very similar in that they're very quick turns. But to stand on their own, I think Vikings is on gateway level, with Luna a larger step up.

Both games are great!


You must not play vikings with the master rules which makes all the difference. Though the auctioning part kind of drags the game so don't always play with that part.
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  • Posted Fri Aug 26, 2011 3:58 am
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nibuen wrote:
SlikkRikk wrote:
Good read!

I have to balk at the Vikings/Luna comparison, however. While both are initially difficult to understand, Luna has a lot more levels of difficulty I think (because of all the options) than Vikings. Ironically, once you get past a few rounds (one round in Vikings, really) both play very similar in that they're very quick turns. But to stand on their own, I think Vikings is on gateway level, with Luna a larger step up.

Both games are great!


You must not play vikings with the master rules which makes all the difference. Though the auctioning part kind of drags the game so don't always play with that part.


I definitely HAVE to try the advanced rules for Vikings. Sometimes my wife gets comfortable with a certain set of rules, and prefers them over the toughter ones (Caylus Magna Carta is the best example).

We really should try it though...
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  • Posted Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:50 pm
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Both Vikings and Luna are available on Yucata.de to play with absolute strangers. I highly recommend learning games with absolute strangers before involving spouses in the learning process.
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  • Posted Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:07 pm
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