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Grimwold's Musings on Games

Just some musings on boardgames and maybe videogames
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PBF - Playing Boardgames Across Continents

Andy
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With Boardgamegeek being the international melting pot that it is, it stands to reason that it would be almost impossible to get together for a game with many of the people I enjoy here on the site (though I have managed to game with some of them face 2 face!)... so what better way to enjoy gaming together than a Play by Forum format. It's one of many logical extensions of the old play by mail format that was popular for chess and other traditional board games.

I think Battlestar Galactica was the first game that I became aware of in the Play by Forum format... the popularity of this game grew very rapidly, to the point where there were endless waiting lists to get in on a game. I didn't get involved to begin with as I wasn't sure how enjoyable the game would in this format, but a friend asked me to take over his position while he was away.. (he knew I had played the game and that I would be on BGG often enough to keep the game moving). despite it being late in the game, I had a blast and subsequently signed up to play a full game.
Board image from my current Shadow Hunters PBF

I then started to think what other games would work in a PBF format, and at that time there was a lot of interest, amongst some of my geekbuddies, in Shadow Hunters, so I set about crafting a Shadow Hunters PBF game, and in November 2009 the first game got under way. It was a lot of fun for me to moderate a hidden role game like this... seeing what everyone did and said, having all the information... and the players seemed to enjoy the game in this format too... certainly everyone who played was keen to sign up for the next one, and we picked up a few other players too.

With subsequent games that I moderated, I was able to refine the format a little bit.. using a graphics package (The GIMP) to quickly generate snapshots of the board... and a googledocs spreadsheet to track details such as characters and teams.. and to randomise cards in each of the decks.

I ran 3 games of Shadow Hunters before taking a break.. by which time Jeff (aka Teriyaki Donuts) had offered to take over moderation so that I would get a chance to actually play... he brought his own style to the game, and came up with a few ideas that I would later incorporate into my next game e.g. BGG avatars on the snapshots instead of boring coloured markers. It was a lot of fun to play, but I got killed off fairly early on (no doubt payback for the previous games I had moderated).
Board image from my Saboteur PBF


I was still on the search for games that would work in a PBF format, and at some point I suggested Saboteur (no surprises what type of games I enjoy!)... A number of my geekbuddies were interested, so again I set up a PBF game and used my forte for manipulating board snapshots to come up with what I thought was a pretty decent PBF game. However it played a little differently than it does face to face... mainly because the game relies so much on table talk, that the players were having to do via posting in the forum.

Meanwhile Jonathan (Mr KSensei) had suggested trying Betrayal at House on the Hill as a PBF game, and he offered to moderate it. I had a lot of fun playing this, but compared to Shadow Hunters and Saboteur, it looked like a lot work to moderate... particularly since there are 3 levels to the board, all of which expand quite a bit in the early stages of the game.


After a long break, during which time I became a father, I felt the urge to run another Shadow Hunters game, and quickly found 8 willing victims players. This started in February 2011, and is currently ongoing.I'm also already committed to running another one when this finishes, as my wife expressed interest and was disappointed there was no space this time round.


So what of my future in PBF games... well I would like to continue to moderate the occasional Shadow Hunters game... I'm also on the lookout for other games I can have a crack at moderating... For some time I've fancied giving Red November a go, and recently I've thought RoboRally might work.. it would be a change of pace from the hidden role games, but apparently does work as a play by mail game, so should fit the PBF model. Chris (boltongeordie) has also offered to moderate a game of The Resistance, which a number of us are keen to try.
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Subscribe sub options Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:00 pm
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Ben Lott
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I too was skeptical about whether I would enjoy the experience of playing a game by forum. So much of what I love about gaming is the experience of hanging out with the other players, and how was I going to feel that vibe in this context. I was really, extremely, completely, utterly, 100% reluctant to try Saboteur by forum. But Andy's a good friend of mine, so I had to give him the benefit of the doubt. and try this crazy idea he was suggesting.

Wow! It was so much fun! It was probably my fault more than anyone else's that "it played a little differently than it does face to face" because I was really pushing to get people talking. I knew that, without the ability to read facial expressions and other subtle indicators, I was going to need people to be as open as possible. Of course a saboteur could openly lie and you'd never be able to catch it, but that added to the fun.

We had some hearty debates, ones I imagine have never been seen in an actual game of Saboteur. We literally filled 14 pages just for our first round, only to get as far as this image shows. I'll never trust Jeff again after that one! But what I also discovered is that there is one thing that I think is almost a requirement in Play By Forum gaming (at least for me.) I have to play with a few people I already know, not necessarily people I have met face-to-face, but people I have had interaction with on BGG before. That game of Saboteur would have never been that exciting or entertaining if I had played with 7 strangers.

Now I'm playing in the most recent game of Shadow Hunters and having a blast again. But, as I said, I'm playing with a bunch of friends. In fact the group is very similar to our Saboteur crew. My thanks to Andy for introducing me to an aspect of this site I never would have tried without his urging. Now to go hunt down those shadows!
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  • Posted Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:47 pm
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BT Carpenter
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The Resistance has had a number of PBF runs to date, run by Raid1280, PeteVasi and/or myself and recently run via Cassie, which arbitrates the largest PBF portion of the boards, which is the continual PBF werewolf games. I'll probably start another one up when one of my current PBF commitments wanes (I'm in 3 different events right now which can be timeconsuming).

I'm not so sure how RoboRally would work as a PBF, there is a lot of hidden information and a big part of the game is the time pressure to program. If given near infinite time (as compared to a F2F game), I think RoboRally would lose some of its charm.

One of the things I would love to see is game engines which use BGG as the front end interface and can auto-moderate. Sadly, it's a lot of work and the APIs keep changing. Cassandra (for Werewolf) has had the most success with this. Other games would need very strict order issuance and game engines to support such an endeavor and is a backburner project I keep batting around.

Games which have perfect information, or which have almost no hidden information, are easiest to PBF, as it allows the players to post to the forum their moves instead of working through a moderator. The more hidden information you add, the more difficult it becomes to handle the game in PBF.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:11 pm
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Jeff Cramer
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Blott wrote:
I'll never trust Jeff again after that one!


Ha ha ha ha ha! A few days ago I was trying to remember what game it was that I was able to convince you guys that I was on your team. At first I thought it was a Shadow Hunters session, but you helped me remember that it was Sab.

Good times!

Ben, I think you could easily moderate a Pandemic or Forbidden Island PBF.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 15, 2011 8:22 pm
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Ben Lott
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Teriyaki Donuts wrote:
Blott wrote:
I'll never trust Jeff again after that one!


Ha ha ha ha ha! A few days ago I was trying to remember what game it was that I was able to convince you guys that I was on your team. At first I thought it was a Shadow Hunters session, but you helped me remember that it was Sab.

Good times!

Ben, I think you could easily moderate a Pandemic or Forbidden Island PBF.

I'd like to, but I'm no good with the GIMP stuff.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:54 pm
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Blott wrote:
Teriyaki Donuts wrote:
Blott wrote:
I'll never trust Jeff again after that one!


Ha ha ha ha ha! A few days ago I was trying to remember what game it was that I was able to convince you guys that I was on your team. At first I thought it was a Shadow Hunters session, but you helped me remember that it was Sab.

Good times!

Ben, I think you could easily moderate a Pandemic or Forbidden Island PBF.

I'd like to, but I'm no good with the GIMP stuff.


Forbidden Island PBF. That could be fun! I'd love to try that sometime.

I've been racking my brains lately about what games could be fun to PBF, and have had some trouble trying to find any. I was thinking along the lines of Invasion from Outer Space or something similar, but the board is huge...might be a fun challenge, though.

Have you contacted the developers/publishers beforehand, or did you just go ahead and do it?
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  • Posted Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:47 am
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byronczimmer wrote:
I'm not so sure how RoboRally would work as a PBF, there is a lot of hidden information and a big part of the game is the time pressure to program. If given near infinite time (as compared to a F2F game), I think RoboRally would lose some of its charm.
It probably would lose some of it's charm without the time pressure etc. but I do know a few people who play Roborally as a PBM and they assure me it works in that format.

Brichs wrote:
Have you contacted the developers/publishers beforehand, or did you just go ahead and do it?
I admit, I haven't contacted anyone before running a PBF game, however I have tried to stick to some of the guidlines given by FFG when the Battlestar games came to prominence - namely - everyone playing has access to a physical copy of the game; and no wholesale copying of game text.

Besides, I haven't really been offering it as a public service, it has primarily been my friends and I enjoying a game.


Teriyaki Donuts wrote:
Blott wrote:
I'll never trust Jeff again after that one!


Ha ha ha ha ha! A few days ago I was trying to remember what game it was that I was able to convince you guys that I was on your team. At first I thought it was a Shadow Hunters session, but you helped me remember that it was Sab.

Good times!

Ben, I think you could easily moderate a Pandemic or Forbidden Island PBF.

What got me was that Jeff ended up being a saboteur in all 3 rounds by sheer chance.

Before Forbidden Island had been released, I had considered Pandemic as a PBF, but I actually couldn't find a decent, flat image of the board to use, and although the graphics side is not as important as it seems, it is something I am good at, so it's what I like to bring to a PBF game. I was almost tempted to use the Dr Who re-theme instead...

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  • Posted Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:09 am
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Mike Jones
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Blott wrote:
Teriyaki Donuts wrote:
Blott wrote:
I'll never trust Jeff again after that one!


Ha ha ha ha ha! A few days ago I was trying to remember what game it was that I was able to convince you guys that I was on your team. At first I thought it was a Shadow Hunters session, but you helped me remember that it was Sab.

Good times!

Ben, I think you could easily moderate a Pandemic or Forbidden Island PBF.

I'd like to, but I'm no good with the GIMP stuff.


Yeah, I have (somewhere) all the BSG Pegasus files. They are already all made up, but I couldn't figure the GIMP/photoshop stuff out enough to even just edit it for posting.
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  • Edited Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:06 pm
  • Posted Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:33 pm
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Jeff Cramer
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Blott wrote:
Teriyaki Donuts wrote:
Blott wrote:
I'll never trust Jeff again after that one!


Ha ha ha ha ha! A few days ago I was trying to remember what game it was that I was able to convince you guys that I was on your team. At first I thought it was a Shadow Hunters session, but you helped me remember that it was Sab.

Good times!

Ben, I think you could easily moderate a Pandemic or Forbidden Island PBF.

I'd like to, but I'm no good with the GIMP stuff.


I did all of my stuff in Paint and a Word doc.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:43 pm
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Randall Bart
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byronczimmer wrote:
I'm not so sure how RoboRally would work as a PBF, there is a lot of hidden information and a big part of the game is the time pressure to program. If given near infinite time (as compared to a F2F game), I think RoboRally would lose some of its charm.

Past a certain point, time doesn't make the programs any better, it just makes the mistakes more embarrassing.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:14 pm
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Andy
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Blott wrote:
Teriyaki Donuts wrote:
Blott wrote:
I'll never trust Jeff again after that one!


Ha ha ha ha ha! A few days ago I was trying to remember what game it was that I was able to convince you guys that I was on your team. At first I thought it was a Shadow Hunters session, but you helped me remember that it was Sab.

Good times!

Ben, I think you could easily moderate a Pandemic or Forbidden Island PBF.

I'd like to, but I'm no good with the GIMP stuff.


I've been working on a PBF map for Pandemic... I put this together using a map outline I found and other bits and pieces...

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  • Posted Mon Feb 28, 2011 3:01 pm
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