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Shogun, Samurai Swords, Ikusa – The Return of a Classic

W. Eric Martin
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On July 1, 2011, I previewed Craig Van Ness' new take on the Battleship game of old: Battleship Galaxies, a design that is thoroughly modern, yet with just enough of ye olde Battleship feel to call to mind lazy summer days in which you and your brother and neighborhood friends would spend hour upon hour playing games in the garage, eating Popsicles and wishing it would rain so that you could run outside and cool off.

Now U.S. publisher Hasbro, through its Avalon Hill brand in the Wizards of the Coast wing of the company, is bringing back another oldie-but-goodie – Mike Gray's Ikusa, né Shogun and formerly retitled Samurai Swords, due out July 26, 2011 – but this time the game plays exactly as you remember from those halcyon days of youth, a brutal hours-long face-smashing, neighbor-pounding, back-stabbing, "I'll never play with you again!"-vowing, territory-grabbing adventure fest.

That said, while the game plays the same as in decades past, the artwork and components have been updated to modern times. Gone are the pumpkiny samurai and technicolor green ashigaru of old, having been replaced with more muted shades of orange and green. The iconic, yet somewhat stereotypical "land of the rising sun" imagery on the game board has been replaced by a more realistic look of land and sea. The troop bin/action reminder shield holder is a solid block of plastic, fortress-like in its own right.

The only thing missing from the new version, compared to the original game, is the set of swords used to designate turn order, these swords having been replaced with cardboard markers. If that's enough to have you turning to eBay for the earlier editions, then so be it.


For those not familiar with the game, here's a rundown of how to play, decorated with a few photos from yours truly in my makeshift photo studio: The goal of Ikusa is to own 35 provinces out of the 68 in the game. (With two players, you must own at least fifty provinces at the end of a round to win the game.)

To set up, shuffle the province card deck and deal an equal number of provinces to each player. Each player places one ashigaru spearman in each province he owns. Then in the randomly determined turn order, each player takes turns placing two spearmen in six different provinces that he owns, then takes turns placing his three army markers in different provinces that he owns.


Each army marker represents a number of figures: its daimyo (or leader), samurai bowmen and swordsmen (one of each to start), and ashigaru gunners (two to start) and spearmen. These armies differ from the provincial forces in that they are led (by a daimyo) and can therefore become more experienced over time, making multiple attacks and traveling greater distances. What's more, while a province can hold at most five individual units, an army can be comprised of up to fifteen units.

The risk, however, is that a daimyo can be assassinated by a ninja, and if you lose all three daimyos – whether through assassination or through battle as the last casualty in your army - then you're out of the game. (You can replace an assassinated daimyo if that army survives until the end of a round, but without its leader the army can't move, making it more vulnerable to attack.)

Each player receives koku (coins) equal to the number of provinces he owns divided by three and rounded down. You're now set to play.

At the start of each round, each player first secretly allocates all koku to the five locations in his planning tray, those being Turn Order, Build, Levy Units, Hire Ronin, and Hire Ninja, which are (not coincidentally) the next five actions of the round. Based on player bids, turn order for the remainder of the round is determined, with ties being broken by random draw of the turn order markers in question.

If a player spent two koku on Build, he then builds a castle in a province he owns or adds a fortress to a castle already on the board. These both provide additional defense in the form of spearmen or ronin if this province is attacked during the game – but should someone else manage to take over this province, then they'll receive the defensive bonus. You can't take a castle with you, after all!


Players then buy units based on the amount of koku they spent – one bowman, three spearmen, and so on as shown on the chart above – and place them on the board, with no more than one unit being placed in each province, whether as an individual force or as part of an army.

For each koku you spent, you then hire two ronin and deploy them in secret to any province(s) that you own by placing them on the back of the province card(s). Later this round, when these forces move, attack or defend, you reveal the province card and add the ronin to the army card or the province in question. (The number of ronin in a province must be less than the number of units from your regular forces, and whether used or not the ronin are removed from the board at the end of the round.)


If one player spent more koku than each opponent on the Hire Ninja action, then this player hires the one ninja for the round. (If the high bid is a tie, no one gets the ninja.) This ninja can be used at the start of the next round to spy on an opponent's koku allocation before you allocate your own money or (from the second round on) to assassinate an opponent's daimyo. This assassination isn't assured, however, and should the attempt fail, the opponent gets a chance to assassinate one of your own daimyo instead.

All these actions are preliminary to the heart of the game: war between the provinces. In turn order, each player now moves his armies, declares battles, carries out combat, and makes any final movements.

As mentioned earlier, daimyo can become more experienced during the game; specifically, once per round in which an army has a successful battle against a defender – that is, killing all of the enemy and leaving the province empty – the daimyo's experience marker on the army card is moved right one notch. After three such successes, that daimyo will be level 2, which enables that army to make two attacks each round; what's more, the army can move into a province immediately after a successful attack in order to launch the next one. That army can also move up to two provinces both before and after combat. Daimyos can be as high as level 4.

After moving your forces, you mark every battle to come with a marker indicating which of your forces are attacking which adjacent province, with multiple attacks being possible into a province. Combat is handled with 12-sided dice and resolved simultaneously for attacker and defender, with all bowmen and gunners firing first, casualties then being resolved, then daimyo, swordsmen, ronin and spearmen attacking, with casualties being resolved once again. The combat value for each type of unit is visible on the player screen above; roll this number or lower to succeed. After a combat sequence the attacker can choose to end the attack (whether successful or not) or start the attack sequence again. After combat, you can move armies or provincial forces to reallocate your troops or take control of any adjacent empty provinces.

Once all players have finished combat, all ronin are returned to the side of the board and players receive koku for bidding at the start of the next round, with a player receiving one-third as many koku as the number of provinces he owns, with a minimum of three.


Build, recruit, attack – that's the essence of the game, but you need to pay attention to when you do what where due to one important detail about the game play: player elimination. Yes, Ikusa being an old-school game, it didn't shy away from kicking players out of the game if they played poorly or were too much of a threat in past games or bothered everyone else in real life by being a smarty-pants. What's important to know, though, is that if you're the one to eliminate someone from the game, then:

• You now own all provinces and units owned by that ousted player.
• You receive new daimyos to replace any that you've lost.
• These daimyos come with no armies, but you can place them on any province you own, picking up troops from that province, if desired.

All of which means two things: (1) Don't weaken someone to the point of nearly eliminating them from the game unless you can finish the job the same turn, and (2) Expect to find a big target on your back after boosting your holdings. Whoa, I just had another flashback to my teenage days of playing in the garage. Who wants to play a side game of Knuckles while we wait for our turn to attack?
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Subscribe sub options Wed Jul 6, 2011 6:43 am
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Joel Eddy
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2011: The Year 'Trash Struck Back....

Impressive!
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 7:56 am
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Eric Dodd
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This does look very, very nice. A great and sympathetic upgrading of the original, by the look of it.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 8:53 am
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Richard Dewsbery
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The army pieces shown in the picture are identical to those in the original Shogun (and the reissue). One of three things has happened - either Hasbro has scavenged pieces from the old set to mock up some publicity photos pending new sculpts/molds, or Hasbro has made new molds from the old sculpts, or Hasbro kept the molds for all those years.

My money is on the latter, but it shows an unusually long view being taken - GW are always talking about having scrapped their tooling for old figures (eg the Epic40k plastic models) preventing certain figure lines from going back into production unless large amounts of money are spent on it). Secondly, I wonder if some of the molds aren't getting a little "tired" - more prominent mold-lines, some flash et cetera might have to be expected if they are using 20+ year old tooling.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 9:20 am
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Richard Milner
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"Tiredness" of moulds for polystyrene is more a factor of wear and bad QA than age. Given the expense of making them and the ease of long-term storage, any sensible company would hang on to its moulds.

Looking at the Shogun/Ikusa pieces I can easily imagine them being repurposed to a different game.

I've got the original Shogun. Apart from the map and the troop bins the components and rules all look the same in this new version.

Is it worth buying? The only thing wrong with my set is a worn box.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 10:23 am
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Pawel Zawisza
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This game sounds exactly like Shogun:Total War.
 
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 12:01 pm
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George Husted
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No cool little samurai swords to indicate turn order.soblue
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 1:09 pm
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Adam Brant
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I like what I see. thumbsup
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 1:18 pm
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Martin Larouche
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Coldwarrior1984 wrote:
No cool little samurai swords to indicate turn order.soblue


That's my only complaint about this new printing.

Those swords were the trademark of that game.

I do however undertand the decision to remove them as they were the weakest part of the old prints. Lots of player broke their plastic swords, making them unusable.

Still... soblue
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 1:37 pm
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Coldwarrior1984 wrote:
No cool little samurai swords to indicate turn order.soblue


An easy upgrade through pimpage! Just hit an oriental market or martial arts supply catalog.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 1:48 pm
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Richard Dewsbery
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Castor Krieg wrote:
This game sounds exactly like Shogun:Total War.


That's because the strategy part of Shogun:Total War was heavily based on the original printing of this game!
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 3:49 pm
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Andy Andersen
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This really looks good
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 3:58 pm
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W. Eric Martin
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RDewsbery wrote:
The army pieces shown in the picture are identical to those in the original Shogun (and the reissue). One of three things has happened - either Hasbro has scavenged pieces from the old set to mock up some publicity photos pending new sculpts/molds, or Hasbro has made new molds from the old sculpts, or Hasbro kept the molds for all those years.

The pieces aren't from an old set as the colors in Ikusa differ from those in Shogun/Samurai Swords. As noted on the Ikusa page on the WotC website: "All of the classic sculptures used for the figures are back with new colors."

Edit: Hmm, how long before someone concocts a ten-player version with alternate universe Japans and attacks through the interdimensional barrier?
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  • Edited Wed Jul 6, 2011 4:06 pm
  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 4:04 pm
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It wouldn't be the first time that a manufacturer has knocked up a copy for publicity shots that involved scratching together what they could, and painting a set of original pieces to show the new colours is a LOT less effort and expense than mounting the old tooling on a molding machine for a very short run. Although it's just as likely that they have dug the molds out of a warehouse and already started full production on the pieces.
 
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 5:09 pm
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W. Eric Martin
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RDewsbery wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time that a manufacturer has knocked up a copy for publicity shots that involved scratching together what they could, and painting a set of original pieces to show the new colours is a LOT less effort and expense than mounting the old tooling on a molding machine for a very short run.


Yes, but when I received the game, each complete army was sealed in a bag, with each type of component also in an individual bag, with the labels on their own sheet, the cards wrapped, the cardboard bits unpunched, and the whole thing shrinkwrapped. In other words, I believe that this is an advance copy as promised by the publisher and not a jimmied-together PR set.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 5:16 pm
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In all previews of Ikusa I miss the tray for the neutral components (dice, Ronin etc.) in this version that was in the original box. Do you have to pile the stuff on the table with this one?
 
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 5:29 pm
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Barry Kendall
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I am very happy to see this game return to publication. I think it's the best of all the "Gamemaster Series" and the design stands the test of time beautifully.

Those who missed its earlier incarnations should buy a copy if at all interested in the subject or simply in a good multiplayer strategy game with numerous stragegies, high replay value and strong involvement by every player.

Now, if only Hasbro would re-visit the "Broadsides and Boarding Parties" subject with an update featuring 18th-early 19th century ships (with flat decks so the crews don't slide all over the place), several ship sizes (from frigates down to sloops, brigs and cutters) and the addition of the great features omitted from the original Milton Bradley edition but present in the Nova original (two sail settings, wind direction and variability, and Marines as well as sailors in the crews!).

Wow, I'd probably buy four copies for squadron actions.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 5:52 pm
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Tim Seitz
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Nah - We need an updated Fortress America with Osama on the cover.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 6:33 pm
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Jim O'Neill (Established 1949)
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Looking at this, the army cards don't have the little holes to take the troops that also had a little protrusion on the base. Stopped them sliding all over the place. I still have my original Shogun.

Jim
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  • Edited Wed Jul 6, 2011 7:07 pm
  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 7:06 pm
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I am the only one out here who remembers that Shogun/Samurai Swords had some nifty mechanisms but was one of the most turtle-prone games ever?

My experience was that whoever attacks first tended to doom both his opponent & himself... weakening each other where the other players could feast on the remains of their empires.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 7:07 pm
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Jim O'Neill (Established 1949)
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out4blood wrote:
Nah - We need an updated Fortress America with Osama on the cover.

Naw, he's also history now.

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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 7:08 pm
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RDewsbery wrote:
Although it's just as likely that they have dug the molds out of a warehouse and already started full production on the pieces.


Since the game is due in stores in 3 weeks I say this is the option that makes sense.
 
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 8:09 pm
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W. Eric Martin
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redsimon wrote:
In all previews of Ikusa I miss the tray for the neutral components (dice, Ronin etc.) in this version that was in the original box. Do you have to pile the stuff on the table with this one?

Sort of. The Ikusa box has space for exactly six planning trays, but since the game includes only five, the sixth space is a cardboard box that holds the dice, ronin, ninja, cards and markers. You can remove everything but the ronin and use the box to hold the ronin during play.

oneilljgf wrote:
Looking at this, the army cards don't have the little holes to take the troops that also had a little protrusion on the base. Stopped them sliding all over the place. I still have my original Shogun.

The army level indicators do have a protrusion to keep them somewhat in place, but no, the units themselves do not. They can go on the board, too, and flat bottoms work better there. (Now please use the phrase "flat bottoms work better there" in another sentence...)
 
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 8:39 pm
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I have the original game from when I played it in high school years with friends. I broke it out to play a few times over the years since then when I could gather just enough people through the lonely dark ages of gaming since then. (Thank god it pretty much came out as a computer Total War video game to wash my pain away of not playing it as much since those early years. This was my only consolation.)

It always remained to be a classic even when it went out of print. So much so that a friend that I introduced it to went on ebay to pay top dollar to get it just to own it; having only played it a couple of times. I felt lucky to have bought it when I did back in the day. I could just tell from the other strategy games on the hobby shop shelf that it was pure quality. No other game out there has every really played out anything quite like it.

In my opinion, truly the greatest war strategy boardgame. Simply fluid play from beginning to end. No "magic" cards being played in the game to ruin your strategy and cluttering up the game play. Just straight strategic inginuity, grit, and tactical alliances all in the open for everyone to assess.

I am happy that another generation will have access to this game with the original rules and gameplay pieces -- that was the ONLY way that it should have done. Top marks and then some to the gaming company!

Let the battle begin!
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 9:16 pm
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I just want to say, God, on behalf of all of us thank you for all of the good things we do in your name, like charity and forgiveness. That’s an idea we would never come up with. That’s for sure. You know that better than anybody.
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Barry Kendall wrote:
I am very happy to see this game return to publication. I think it's the best of all the "Gamemaster Series" and the design stands the test of time beautifully.

Now, if only Hasbro would re-visit the "Broadsides and Boarding Parties" subject with an update featuring 18th-early 19th century ships (with flat decks so the crews don't slide all over the place), several ship sizes (from frigates down to sloops, brigs and cutters) and the addition of the great features omitted from the original Milton Bradley edition but present in the Nova original (two sail settings, wind direction and variability, and Marines as well as sailors in the crews!).

Wow, I'd probably buy four copies for squadron actions.



That is the only game I regret trading away!
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 9:32 pm
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gamemark wrote:
I am the only one out here who remembers that Shogun/Samurai Swords had some nifty mechanisms but was one of the most turtle-prone games ever?

My experience was that whoever attacks first tended to doom both his opponent & himself... weakening each other where the other players could feast on the remains of their empires.




It's true that if you get the same type of players (particularly novices) that this could happen, but only a few times. Sooner or later everyone figures out that you HAVE to take chances to progress towards a win, and also guage your alliances strategically -- not always the easiest of things to do.

If you have seasoned gamers like myself in this game, then taking the obvious risks seems necessary to win and I would be prone to do so.

You might loose but that is how you have to play. If you have miscalculated you should have had a backup retreat plan. Sooner or later though, you must feast on remains of the other players territories to win. Getting them in that position is necessary. Sometimes you have to lure other players into attacking your opponents by attacking your opponents strategically in just a few territories (not all out destructively to remove them from the game). It is chess-like where you have to give up pieces to lure your opponent into just the right position -- it looks like he will benefit from it and you're looking weakened but in actuallity will trigger attacks from other players onto your opponent (then you can concentrate on the rest of them). This is a very well balanced game.

But I digress and have long-winded myself. In summary:

Ya it could be a turtle game if you're playing with novice or outright all defensive minded players who just can't change their playing style to win. It's a player problem in my view -- definitely not a game problem. As I replied above, there are ways around this if you are seasoned and know where to take the chances to trigger a change.
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  • Posted Wed Jul 6, 2011 9:40 pm
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gamemark wrote:
I am the only one out here who remembers that Shogun/Samurai Swords had some nifty mechanisms but was one of the most turtle-prone games ever?

My experience was that whoever attacks first tended to doom both his opponent & himself... weakening each other where the other players could feast on the remains of their empires.


Played this game a lot from the late 80s to early 00s, and didn't see a whole lot of turtling in a 5 player game. Just too many fronts to try covering, eventually someone will find an opening they can exploit. When they do, an army falls, and that player's strategic opportunities diminish, opening more opportunities.

Instead the game's "flaw" is that once each player secures their power base, the two players who end up with the south (2 islands) and north end of the map usually are the ones who end up battling for supremacy. And this situation is heavily influenced by initial province distribution. Everyone else ends up road kill on their highway to victory. Once in a great while the player who secures their power base around Kii sneaks a victory by opportunistic elimination of a weakened neighbor, who managed to luckily survive someone else's elimination attempt. But in my experience games are usually decided by the map end points, with the main variable being how fast those relative players managed to secure those areas.
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  • Posted Thu Jul 7, 2011 12:37 am
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Red Wine Pie wrote:
This does look very, very nice. A great and sympathetic upgrading of the original, by the look of it.


Only a reprint really - same game pieces, same rules. Different artwork and no swords.
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  • Posted Thu Jul 7, 2011 12:43 am
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Looks like plastic player trays instead of styrofoam. Nice.

If there were some alternate rules (like the reprint of Conquest Of the Empire had) I would buy this. As it is, I still have my original copy and really don't need another one.

Glad to see it is back for all of you guys who missed it, though!


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  • Edited Fri Jul 8, 2011 12:47 am
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I echo as well that this was the best of the Game Master series. As others have said, I too still have my original copy of Shogun. But I haven't played it in years. A few pieces are missing now and more than a few flag holders are broken. I could use a new copy.

In my mind's eye, I see myself buying and playing this in the open gaming area of GenCon.

Yes.

Maybe I'll bring along my plastic swords for determining turn order, eh?
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  • Posted Thu Jul 7, 2011 2:44 am
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W Eric Martin wrote:
RDewsbery wrote:
It wouldn't be the first time that a manufacturer has knocked up a copy for publicity shots that involved scratching together what they could, and painting a set of original pieces to show the new colours is a LOT less effort and expense than mounting the old tooling on a molding machine for a very short run.


Yes, but when I received the game, each complete army was sealed in a bag, with each type of component also in an individual bag, with the labels on their own sheet, the cards wrapped, the cardboard bits unpunched, and the whole thing shrinkwrapped. In other words, I believe that this is an advance copy as promised by the publisher and not a jimmied-together PR set.


Lucky bastard.
 
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adamw wrote:
I echo as well that this was the best of the Game Master series.


I'd say that Fortress America has better gameplay since that game doesn't have the 'edges of the world' syndrome Samurai Swords has as Robert pointed out above. But I'd rate Samurai Swords 2nd in the Gamemaster series. I have both and glad I do.


Quote:
Maybe I'll bring along my plastic swords for determining turn order, eh?


Or bring real swords. Then at least you have options if you start losing! ninja
 
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  • Edited Thu Jul 7, 2011 3:10 am
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This is the only one of the "Gamemaster" series Milton Bradley put out that I don't own. I am very happy to see this gem of a game come back and will be picking up a copy the instant it arrives at my FLGS.
 
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Coldwarrior1984 wrote:
No cool little samurai swords to indicate turn order.soblue


Damn. I will miss those but I have seen a few sets on eBay recently. Might get lucky and score one.
 
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eekamouse wrote:
2011: The Year 'Trash Struck Back....

Impressive!


About damned time!
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I can't wait to get a copy of this. This reminds me of glorious summers past when my friends and I would break out our MB GameMaster boxes and play for days. I was the keeper of Fortress America and Axis & Allies; I never owned Shogun, but always wanted it. Now is my chance, finally.
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  • Posted Thu Jul 7, 2011 7:07 am
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I just can't wait for the game to come out. "Must have" is so little said about this game. The 5% japanese part of my heart is going wild.
On the other hand, guess I have to cut down on food so I can buy the game as soon as it hits the shelves...
 
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  • Edited Thu Jul 7, 2011 11:28 am
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Since I own the game currently, and there appears to be nothing new to this, I am not that excited. I am glad for those that don't own the game, but the value of mine just dropped
 
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  • Posted Thu Jul 7, 2011 1:56 pm
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Oh, something else I wanted to know: Is the plastic the miniatures are made from more flexible? In the old version a lot of my miniatures broke and I had to fix them with glue.
 
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  • Edited Thu Jul 7, 2011 1:58 pm
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W Eric Martin wrote:
In other words, I believe that this is an advance copy as promised by the publisher and not a jimmied-together PR set.


You lucky chap - I'd assumed from the photos that we were looking at something the Hasbro marketing department had put out. But if you've got an actual copy in your hands, that would mean that production has already started and there will be copies already sitting in warehouses somewhere.

It looks like an interesting mix of old and new - I like the new colours and vibrancy, but they've kept all of the old bits and mechanics (when there must have been a temptation to try to cut a few corners on production costs). Except for the swords, obviously. I wonder why - the cost shouldn't have been an issue given how much molded plastic is already going into the box.
 
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RDewsbery wrote:
You lucky chap - I'd assumed from the photos that we were looking at something the Hasbro marketing department had put out.

Ah, I see – you just overlooked the line where I mentioned "photos from yours truly in my makeshift photo studio".

redsimon wrote:
Is the plastic the miniatures are made from more flexible? In the old version a lot of my miniatures broke and I had to fix them with glue.

I just took a spearman, held it at the base, bent the body at a 180º angle to the base, then let go. The body slowly straightened out until it was only 30º off vertical. I then bent the body 180º the other way, and it straightened again. I then held the body and bent the base back-and-forth as far as possible a few dozen times; the legs don't look damaged at all. I did the same with the spear and it looks fine, too.

Of course plastic hardens over time, so I might not get the same results in a decade.
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  • Posted Thu Jul 7, 2011 3:31 pm
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W Eric Martin wrote:

I just took a spearman, held it at the base, bent the body at a 180º angle to the base, then let go. The body slowly straightened out until it was only 30º off vertical. I then bent the body 180º the other way, and it straightened again. I then held the body and bent the base back-and-forth as far as possible a few dozen times; the legs don't look damaged at all. I did the same with the spear and it looks fine, too.

I guess that means it's a more flexible plastic. That would have been impossible with the old miniatures.
 
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  • Edited Thu Jul 7, 2011 3:40 pm
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weed131 wrote:
Since I own the game currently, and there appears to be nothing new to this, I am not that excited. I am glad for those that don't own the game, but the value of mine just dropped

Why does that matter? If you play the game and enjoy it, then it's worth the price you paid. If you only bought it as an investment...that's the risk you took.

Now more people have the chance to play a game that would be otherwise inaccessbile (or difficult to get). I welcome reprintings and reimaginings!
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W Eric Martin wrote:

Ah, I see – you just overlooked the line where I mentioned "photos from yours truly in my makeshift photo studio".


You're right, of course. I was too busy looking at the pictures to read all those words

I like the idea of a more flexible plastic; the original figures were much less forgiving, and the ashigaru spearmen in particular were prone to getting broken as a result (or perhaps that was just my hamfistedness).
 
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  • Posted Thu Jul 7, 2011 10:39 pm
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  • Posted Fri Jul 8, 2011 12:39 am
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redsimon wrote:
W Eric Martin wrote:

I just took a spearman, held it at the base, bent the body at a 180º angle to the base, then let go. The body slowly straightened out until it was only 30º off vertical. I then bent the body 180º the other way, and it straightened again. I then held the body and bent the base back-and-forth as far as possible a few dozen times; the legs don't look damaged at all. I did the same with the spear and it looks fine, too.

I guess that means it's a more flexible plastic. That would have been impossible with the old miniatures.


You could not bend the plastic when those guys first came out of the box in the 1980's... I am glad to see they went with more flexible plastic to prevent all those broken spears the original game had.

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sam faraci
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Does this new version have the castles and stands that came with the original as well.I know it states that it has everything but the swords but i cant see the castles in any of the pics.?
 
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  • Posted Fri Jul 8, 2011 3:55 am
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cutter3377 wrote:
Does this new version have the castles and stands that came with the original as well. I know it states that it has everything but the swords but i cant see the castles in any of the pics?


Look at the component shot, which is a press image from Hasbro, at the top of the page. The foundations and castles are on the bottom edge of the image, toward the right.
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  • Posted Fri Jul 8, 2011 4:00 am
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RDewsbery wrote:
W Eric Martin wrote:
In other words, I believe that this is an advance copy as promised by the publisher and not a jimmied-together PR set.


You lucky chap - I'd assumed from the photos that we were looking at something the Hasbro marketing department had put out. But if you've got an actual copy in your hands, that would mean that production has already started and there will be copies already sitting in warehouses somewhere.

It looks like an interesting mix of old and new - I like the new colours and vibrancy, but they've kept all of the old bits and mechanics (when there must have been a temptation to try to cut a few corners on production costs). Except for the swords, obviously. I wonder why - the cost shouldn't have been an issue given how much molded plastic is already going into the box.


Could be the molds for the swords are shot? Dunno.

Ive wanted to play the original forever, and now ill be able to. Why are all the must buy games for me coming out all in the same 4 week time span?! So long, fun money!
 
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gamemark wrote:
I am the only one out here who remembers that Shogun/Samurai Swords had some nifty mechanisms but was one of the most turtle-prone games ever?

My experience was that whoever attacks first tended to doom both his opponent & himself... weakening each other where the other players could feast on the remains of their empires.


Played this game a lot from the late 80s to early 00s, and didn't see a whole lot of turtling in a 5 player game. Just too many fronts to try covering, eventually someone will find an opening they can exploit. When they do, an army falls, and that player's strategic opportunities diminish, opening more opportunities.

Instead the game's "flaw" is that once each player secures their power base, the two players who end up with the south (2 islands) and north end of the map usually are the ones who end up battling for supremacy. And this situation is heavily influenced by initial province distribution. Everyone else ends up road kill on their highway to victory. Once in a great while the player who secures their power base around Kii sneaks a victory by opportunistic elimination of a weakened neighbor, who managed to luckily survive someone else's elimination attempt. But in my experience games are usually decided by the map end points, with the main variable being how fast those relative players managed to secure those areas.


Ah yeah. I'd forgotten about that "flaw" in this game. I remember really enjoying the way armies were formed and the different "to hit" ratings of the game. Thought it was very well-balanced/designed.

But in addition to the flaw you mentioned, I think the other thing that was "wrong" with this game is that your forces were anonymous. To me, it's much more interesting to play as a nation/people with a backstory. It simply adds more flavor to the game. In Shogun/Samuri Swords, you didn't have this at all, just "the blue army", "the red army", etc.

Also, the map itself with the territories all looking and valued the same... that to me was a bit of a missed opportunity and contributed to the sense of anonymity that seems to characterize this game.

Having spewed all of that though, I thought this game was highly entertaining when I was a teen and the 2nd-best of the series (sorry grognards, but A&A will always be my fave!).
 
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  • Posted Fri Jul 8, 2011 12:46 pm
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W Eric Martin wrote:
RDewsbery wrote:
You lucky chap - I'd assumed from the photos that we were looking at something the Hasbro marketing department had put out.

Ah, I see – you just overlooked the line where I mentioned "photos from yours truly in my makeshift photo studio".

redsimon wrote:
Is the plastic the miniatures are made from more flexible? In the old version a lot of my miniatures broke and I had to fix them with glue.

I just took a spearman, held it at the base, bent the body at a 180º angle to the base, then let go. The body slowly straightened out until it was only 30º off vertical. I then bent the body 180º the other way, and it straightened again. I then held the body and bent the base back-and-forth as far as possible a few dozen times; the legs don't look damaged at all. I did the same with the spear and it looks fine, too.

Of course plastic hardens over time, so I might not get the same results in a decade.


Eric,

A trick I found somewhere online that I used to straighten up my bent over Star Wars plastic Miniatures could work for this too. Take a coffee cup of water, put it in the microwave for 60 seconds to get hot, take out of microwave, dip bentover miniature in hot water holding onto the base just out of the water for 10 seconds, take out of hot water, bend figure to correct pose, hold it in pose while it cools. Once it cools and you stop holding it in the pose, you will have a straightened out figure that will stay straightened out!

The Star Wars miniatures constantly came out of the box bentover, and this did the trick.

Mike

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  • Posted Fri Jul 8, 2011 3:04 pm
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Any idea on $$$ ?
 
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Troymk1 wrote:
Any idea on $$$ ?


http://boardgameprices.com/game.aspx?id=503762

 
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"All of the classic sculptures used for the figures are back with new colors."

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volnon wrote:

If there were some alternate rules (like the reprint of Conquest Of the Empire had) I would buy this.


That would be awesome.
 
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Um, where is that Ninja? Remember him? The spy/assassin who we all loved to hate? I don't see him anywhere in the pics. Wait! Whose behind me?(sword thrashing through flesh, muscles & vital organs sound).



No, but seriously.. where's our Ninja Assassin Spy? He ALWAYS put our enemies on guard and made the game so much fun. I love him. LOL
 
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  • Posted Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:31 am
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Is Hasbro/Avalon Hill planning to release this game in different languages as well, for example in German?

Shogun was available in German, Dutch, ...
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  • Posted Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:11 pm
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Tigervirgo_1974 wrote:
Um, where is that Ninja? Remember him? The spy/assassin who we all loved to hate? I don't see him anywhere in the pics. Wait! Whose behind me?(sword thrashing through flesh, muscles & vital organs sound).



No, but seriously.. where's our Ninja Assassin Spy? He ALWAYS put our enemies on guard and made the game so much fun. I love him. LOL


Look "closer".

 
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erzengel wrote:
Is Hasbro/Avalon Hill planning to release this game in different languages as well, for example in German?

Shogun was available in German, Dutch, ...

I asked that question to a Wizards of the Coast rep and she said, "At this time, we're only releasing the game in English. I don't have any information beyond that."
 
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Well the game is largely language independent. All it would take is to find a scan of the old rules in your choice of language that it was previously produced in, as well as either scans or fan made army tray screens and you are set.

But then again it would be pretty easy for Hasborg to do this as well, barring new packaging.
 
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volnon wrote:
redsimon wrote:
W Eric Martin wrote:

I just took a spearman, held it at the base, bent the body at a 180º angle to the base, then let go. The body slowly straightened out until it was only 30º off vertical. I then bent the body 180º the other way, and it straightened again. I then held the body and bent the base back-and-forth as far as possible a few dozen times; the legs don't look damaged at all. I did the same with the spear and it looks fine, too.

I guess that means it's a more flexible plastic. That would have been impossible with the old miniatures.


You could not bend the plastic when those guys first came out of the box in the 1980's... I am glad to see they went with more flexible plastic to prevent all those broken spears the original game had.


I have to agree. As a miniature painter such plastic is a nightmare, but since the vast majority of players will not be painting their models it was a good decision.

A surprising decision in fact. It ALMOST makes up for the lack of turn order samurai swords.

I guess the older versions will retain some value after all for some people with the new uber-bendy minis and lack of swords..
 
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LordHellfury wrote:
volnon wrote:
redsimon wrote:
W Eric Martin wrote:

I just took a spearman, held it at the base, bent the body at a 180º angle to the base, then let go. The body slowly straightened out until it was only 30º off vertical. I then bent the body 180º the other way, and it straightened again. I then held the body and bent the base back-and-forth as far as possible a few dozen times; the legs don't look damaged at all. I did the same with the spear and it looks fine, too.

I guess that means it's a more flexible plastic. That would have been impossible with the old miniatures.


You could not bend the plastic when those guys first came out of the box in the 1980's... I am glad to see they went with more flexible plastic to prevent all those broken spears the original game had.


I have to agree. As a miniature painter such plastic is a nightmare, but since the vast majority of players will not be painting their models it was a good decision.

A surprising decision in fact. It ALMOST makes up for the lack of turn order samurai swords.

I guess the older versions will retain some value after all for some people with the new uber-bendy minis and lack of swords..


wow..bendy! I was resting on my laurels that I had a game master shogun edition..but a few of the weapons on my figures are broken (they were when I purchased it second hand for a hefty sum) I do have my swords....but honestly, I can't see, while cool, they are such a big deal for everyone. This seems to be ripe for someone from say Mayday games to produce a sword upgrade pack for this game for turn order..or a BGG expansion through the geek store.
 
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  • Posted Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:37 pm
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Nathan
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
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MWChapel wrote:
Tigervirgo_1974 wrote:
Um, where is that Ninja? Remember him? The spy/assassin who we all loved to hate? I don't see him anywhere in the pics. Wait! Whose behind me?(sword thrashing through flesh, muscles & vital organs sound).



No, but seriously.. where's our Ninja Assassin Spy? He ALWAYS put our enemies on guard and made the game so much fun. I love him. LOL


Look "closer".



If he was easy to spot in the first place he wouldn't be much of a ninja would he?

Its a good thing I was always fairly good at finding Waldo
 
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  • Posted Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:36 am
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Dwaine Hill
Canada

Nath1975 wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Tigervirgo_1974 wrote:
Um, where is that Ninja? Remember him? The spy/assassin who we all loved to hate? I don't see him anywhere in the pics. Wait! Whose behind me?(sword thrashing through flesh, muscles & vital organs sound).



No, but seriously.. where's our Ninja Assassin Spy? He ALWAYS put our enemies on guard and made the game so much fun. I love him. LOL


Look "closer".



If he was easy to spot in the first place he wouldn't be much of a ninja would he?

Its a good thing I was always fairly good at finding Waldo



AH! I see the ninja now! Damn him hiding among the Ronin. Clever & sneaky he is. LOL
 
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  • Posted Sat Aug 6, 2011 10:10 am
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