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The Ross-on-Wye Boardgamers

Beer and Boardgames at the White Lion. "It's not F-ing Monopoly, alright?!"
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Friday August 12th - An Innovative Approach

Ben Bateson
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Ben, JP and Bill formed this weeks trio (note to self: must research games that are best with three if that's all we ever get...), and launched into John's new game collection, which it turns out were all bought for under £10 from some desperate soul selling up.

Still, Chicago Poker has hovered around the fringes of my interest for quite some time, and it seemed a good idea to get it to the table. It's basically not a lot more than a multi-player Battle Line, with patterns of face-down cards for a bit more of a gambling element, only in fitting with the theme. Now Battle Line is one of the very few games which I can claim to be very good at, and it wasn't too difficult to bring my skills to bear here: while John and Bill tried to build up massive hands, I won by simply being aggressive at the right moments and dumping junk on one board out of every two. Not an unpleasant experience, but I think I prefer both of Knizia's takes on this - both Battle Line and Head-to-Head Poker

Our main-eventer came from unexpected quarter. I had been lucky enough to gain a download link for the Print-and-Play version of Kingdom Of Solomon (thanks Chris), and after stocking myself up on bits (thanks Andrew at boardgameextras.co.uk!) had put together a full set which I'd brought along on the off-chance that anyone would fancy it. The magic words 'worker placement' were enough for John and Bill, and I set it up, pleased that I had had a thorough pore over the rules beforehand.

There were aspects to the game that both pleased me and displeased me. The ability to go down different routes of scoring became increasingly apparent towards the end, as Bill built massive regions of resources, I scored mostly by abusing my Ministries (oo-er!), and John freeloaded from the High Priest, eventually winning by a dozen points or so. I think the Favour cards are very overwhelming, though, and looking at the demands on the buildings, I think an early strategy geared towards stone is just too strong. I'm happy to enter into discussion on this one, though.

We finished with Innovation; I game that I find highly enjoyable without descending to inane hero worship like some others (Tony...). I can understand why it's easy to rack up hundreds of plays of Innovation or Glory To Rome. But I don't find the satisfaction in the victories that I would in something like Agricola or Puerto Rico: I can't really push over the randomness and chaos that ensues towards the game end: no matter how fun it is, I've never felt like I've worked for the game.

Tonight? Boy, was that ever a prime example. I did something I've ALWAYS wanted to do in this game, came within an inch of winning and still enjoyed the zany game effects more than any skills involved. Playing against two beginners, I didn't want to make them look too bad, which was a good job given the handfuls of garbage I was drawing. I managed to pull out the Monument and Universe achievement through shortcuts, but virtually nothing else materialised. I had no splay cards, not many scoring cards and could only gain a symbol advantage in lightbulbs at a time when the Perspective card was worse than useless. John steadily racked up the Age achievements until he had four, and the piles were running out. Suddenly, I found myself presented with the Fission card. I dogma'ed it three times in total before creating total nuclear meltdown on the turn before John was ready to claim his fifth achievement. Always wanted to do this!

With two achievements to John's four (Bill had two as well, but he managed to regress himself into the Stone Age following the holocaust), and John abusing basic Agriculture I felt I was in with a fighting chance until I pulled an absolute killer combo - for me! Computers - Software - Globalisation and an automatic win for John. Fun? Undeniably. A great game? Well...the jury's out. For now, it's still a good game in my books, and one that I'll be unlikely to turn down. But as the cards and the combos become more and more familiar, it might be time to look elsewhere.
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Subscribe sub options Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:09 am
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W. Eric Martin
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Quote:
But as the cards and the combos become more and more familiar, it might be time to look elsewhere.

I've had the opposite response – becoming familiar with the cards and combos has inspired me to play more because I'm now playing across a longer period of time within the game. That is, I'm not looking only at the next turn or two, but what's possible down the road, both with my plays and those of my opponents. I have a broader picture of what's possible and try to swing the game in certain directions.
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  • Posted Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:05 am
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What the hell is multiplayer Battle Line? It's inconceivable!

By the way, you are the only blogger I actually read. Most others are bloviating with self-importance (I'm looking at you Mr. ...). It's quite sickening.
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  • Posted Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:53 am
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Anthony Boydell
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markgravitygood wrote:
What the hell is multiplayer Battle Line? It's inconceivable!

By the way, you are the only blogger I actually read. Most others are bloviating with self-importance (I'm looking at you Mr. ...). It's quite sickening.


I bloviate with self-stupidity, if that helps?
 
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  • Posted Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:51 am
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G. Gambill
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Great Innovation session report! In many respects in this game you are "along for the ride", but with more plays you can look for card combinations that will steer the game as Eric suggested. Also, if you get the expansion, you will have an almost infinite amount of replayability as the decks become randomized with a mixture of original and expansion cards. This game may be too chaotic for some, but it will never get old.
 
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  • Posted Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:16 pm
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Ben Bateson
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markgravitygood wrote:
What the hell is multiplayer Battle Line? It's inconceivable!

By the way, you are the only blogger I actually read. Most others are bloviating with self-importance (I'm looking at you Mr. ...). It's quite sickening.


Thank you, if entirely undeserved. I only aim to keep a modest log of what we've played each week, and I haven't mentioned the precipitous game of Coppertwaddle which almost happened until a third player thankfully arrived.

And, yes, multiplayer Battle Line does exist, and it's Chicago Poker. It's also notably less good than Battle Line...
 
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  • Edited Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:21 am
  • Posted Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:04 pm
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Anthony Boydell
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ousgg wrote:
markgravitygood wrote:
What the hell is multiplayer Battle Line? It's inconceivable!

By the way, you are the only blogger I actually read. Most others are bloviating with self-importance (I'm looking at you Mr. ...). It's quite sickening.


Thank you, if entirely undeserved. I only aim to keep a modest log of what we've played each week, and I haven't mentioned the almost precipitous game of Coppertwaddle which almost happened until a third player thankfully arrived.

And, yes, multiplayer Battle Line does exist, and it's Chicago Poker. It's also notably less good than Battle Line...


Ooh, lay off! First it was Scandaroon - now, it's Coppertwaddle.

You rotter.
 
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  • Posted Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:14 am
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Lee Fisher
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Drakkenstrike also likened blood bowl team manager to multiplayer battle line...
 
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  • Posted Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:55 am
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Brian Mc Cabe
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Your opinion of Innovation mirrors mine. Most of the time, I don't feel like I've done anything, win, lose or get nuked back to the Stone Age.

I also occassionally like the end game, if something unusual happens. One player won a game when he exchanged the four cards in his hand with the six in his score pile and then played a dogma that allowed him to tuck all of the cards in his hand to collect his last achievement (tuck all of the cards in your hand; if you tuck six gain the _______ achievement.

Those unexpected or last-second victories is what the game should be all about.

Instead, the vast majority of the games involve one player melding and exploiting a score card until someone can meld a card that stops it. If no one melds such a card, it's goodnight, Irene. If they do, the game can become interminable.

I like the mechanic in London better The card is exhausted and can't be exploited until "victory".

Also, second your blogging skills. Most of them are unreadable, since most people aren't very good writers.

Brian
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  • Edited Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:48 pm
  • Posted Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:45 pm
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Ben Bateson
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modest

You're really all too kind. Especially given that I attempted to write this one on the strength of several pints of beer. Tony will verify that's nothing unusual for Friday nights.
 
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  • Posted Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:57 pm
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Philip duBarry
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Thanks for mentioning (and playing!) Kingdom of Solomon. A stone-heavy beginning is certainly a good strategy, but one of several. I hear so many comments from people who are *sure* this or that strategy is the key to the game. Most of them are wrong. One of the coolest things I observed during recent demos is the desire for people to try to prove a certain theory about the game. One guy says, "Of course you sell everything at the market." Another says, "Of course the buildings will make you win." It seems so obvious, but there are more subtle things going on under the surface.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:06 am
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Ben Bateson
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I'll take your word for it, but stone->temple foundations->High Priest looks pretty unbeatable to me.

Interesting game, though. We'll spend more time on it, for sure.
 
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  • Edited Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:15 am
  • Posted Mon Aug 15, 2011 2:15 am
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Chris Geggus
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Ben,

Glad you got some use out of the PnP KoS. I'm still waiting on my promised solid copy, but interesting to read your initial thoughts. Will definitely give it a go and perhaps with your early tactical heads up I might try to ground the boys at the club into the ground (or maybe not).

I read your blog because we've corresponded previously and you're British - nothing more subtle than that. None of this a*** licking from me I'm afraid. All blogs are different - some just more different than others.

Chris.
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 2, 2011 5:29 pm
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Philip duBarry
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Are you guys aware that we increased the size of the Temple by 6 spaces?


This will mitigate the stone-only approach somewhat, as gold becomes even more important. It should only be a few more weeks now. Hope you guys end up enjoying the game!
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  • Posted Wed Nov 2, 2011 8:07 pm
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Ben Bateson
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Nice. I think that will help a lot.

I shall have to get the glue out.
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 2, 2011 8:10 pm
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