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New Game Round-up: Risk Anew, Antike Transformed & Two Titles Escape JKLiMbo

W. Eric Martin
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Risk Legacy is the next evolution in this long-lived combat/area control series of games, with Rob Daviau and Chris Dupuis in charge of the design. (The German version, titled Risiko Evolution, is due out October 2011. I haven't seen a release date on the English version yet, but I imagine it's the same thing.)

What's new in this iteration of Risk is that the world changes from game to game in response to the outcome from previous playings. How this works is that the box contains a number of small card packets and sealed envelopes, and these will be opened and integrated into the game over time: stickers are added to the game board, cards are added or removed, and so on. One packet, for example, instructs you to open it once the ninth town is founded on the game board. What's in that packet? I don't know, but you can find out once this game hits the market – or when someone spoils the surprise in a session report...

• Designer Mac Gerdts and German publisher PD-Verlag hope to release Casus Belli, a two-player strategy game "based on modified rules from Antike", according to Gerdts. He adds this description: "The game includes two scenarios – Punic Wars (Rome vs. Carthago) on one side of the board, and Peloponnesian Wars (Athens vs. Sparta) on the other – and the goal of the game is to be the first to gain nine ancient personages (Kings, Scholars, Generals, Citizens, Navigators)."

• Designer Bryan Johnson notes that he's reclaimed the rights to Huang Di after waiting more than three years for JKLM Games (now Prime Games) to publish the game. He hopes to announce a new publishing arrangement soon.


I've played Huang Di a few times, as far back as 2007 before Cambridge Games Factory was the first to sign on as publisher, and can't believe that after this much time the game still isn't in print. Ideally the wait won't be too much longer, and once the game is near publication I'll work with Bryan to republish and update his 2008(!) designer diary from BoardgameNews.com.

• And for a little déjà vu, designer Nigel Buckle has stated that the game formerly known as Alien Ascendancy – also in limbo for years at JKLM Games – has been picked up by Spiral Galaxy Games for publication at an unaccounced date. Buckle would like your help now, however, with a new name for the game since Ascendancy was the name of a 4X-themed video game released in 1995. Take his name poll and offer your own suggestions in this BGG thread.

My one play of this game dates to the 2008 UK Games Expo and wish Nigel well in finally getting a published copy on the table. His prototype was nicely done, but you're a tad limited in who can play the game when only a single copy is out there...
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Subscribe sub options Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:40 pm
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Tom Vasel
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That's one of the neatest ideas in a long time - the Risk game. I wonder who many packets are in the game?
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  • Posted Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:59 pm
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Tiwaz Tyrsfist
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I really hope that in Risk Legacy, their is a card that lets you Nuke a nation. And that doing so makes that region uninhabitable/unclaimable. And that it's PERMANENT, so if you nuke something in game 2, it's gone forever...
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  • Posted Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:16 pm
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I hope the stickers are temporary... Otherwise after you go through the campaign once the board is toast.
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:36 am
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William (Andy) Anderson
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Casus Belli sounds like a blast. Let's try harder than just 'hoping to release' and just make it so!






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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:57 am
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J J
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Fascinating concept for a game with Risk there, but at the same time I suspect that it's also complete rubbish.

Let me clarify - the concept is brilliant, the implementation as stated is appalling.

I love the idea of the game changing as you play it, so each game can (potentially) be a truly different experience. But if you do it with stickers, and sealed packets, then you can't go back. Indeed, the whole stickers thing says to me that someone in marketing got hold of a designer's bright idea and turned it into a stunt that will help boost sales (not because of the innovative idea, no, but because you will have to replace your game once the board has been defaced).

Quite willing to bet that the contents of the sealed packets aren't listed (so you cannot just grab those bits and put them back), and I confidently predict that the removal of cards will involve physically destroying them.

But like I said, brilliant concept, so I'd love to be proven wrong...
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:33 am
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RiffRaff14 wrote:
I hope the stickers are temporary... Otherwise after you go through the campaign once the board is toast.



Play through the campaign and when you're done trash it and recycle the bits for other games. If you get 9 or 10 plays out of it, it's still a great entertainment value compared with a lot of other forms of entertainment, and you'll probably have some cool bits to customize your other games with.
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:14 am
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Could be completely wrong, but when I hear 'stickers' in relation to gameplay like this, I immediately think more along the lines of colorforms, and not permanent stickers. I just can't imagine any company being so bold(dumb) as to use permanent stickers.
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:31 am
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There is no guarentee that Hasbro will release it in the US. They have already spit in our faces twice with Risk: Balance of Power and Risk Express being unavailable in the US. Why should we expect this RISK game to be any different?
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:18 am
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Cory Suter
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I like the Risk idea but I also hope that the changes aren't "permanent". Envelopes, stickers... Here is a box cutter too so you can remove part of the board after you lose Irkutsk. +1 to the "Let's hope they prove us wrong bit."

I WISH they would come back out with the original Risk with the plastic army men, cannons, and horses. Even if they wanted to use People, Jeeps, and Tanks I would be happy. Stop with this mission, power plant, moon, Godstorm junk and give me the classic game with the classic board and some sweet pieces. My 2 cents

Edit: Spellings...
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  • Edited Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:42 am
  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:42 am
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Richard Hutnik
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The new Risk sounds like it might be best suited as an electronic version, where you could reboot the multigame campaign and start over again.
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:11 am
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Arne Hoffmann
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From what I read in the German announcement, it seems as if the changes/modifications are permanent. I cite from memory: At the end of the campaign, your game will have went through a war - you war. You will have a unique copy as you will have put stickers on your game, written on your board and have thrown away pieces...

All could be performed to be just temporary but I have my doubt. On the other hand: When I was a boy we also glued stickers to some of our games or wrote on them to make gameplay more to our liking. So I guess that the target group for Risk Evolution would not mind too much. The current me however would mind a great deal.
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:19 am
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For Risk Legacy, if the stickers are permanent, I'd just cut them out and leave the paper backing on them, so they can be set on the board, but removed when the game is put away. And if you have to write on the board, a cheap transparent overlay might work. If there's a will, there's probably a way.

The stickers and the fact that you're supposed to destroy components feels gimmicky. Maybe they're trying to appeal to teenagers. If a hobby game publisher produced this game, I'm guessing that instead of using stickers, they'd use cardboard tokens. I think many people appreciate modular game boards, and a board that morphs through a campaign sounds cool, but I for one like to preserve my components.
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:53 am
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Gromguitar4 wrote:

I WISH they would come back out with the original Risk with the plastic army men, cannons, and horses.


Shouldn't be too hard to find. I got a $1 copy a couple years back at a "friends of the library" sale. Get on the thrift shop circuit and you should be able to find yourself a copy!
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:58 am
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Gromguitar4 wrote:
I WISH they would come back out with the original Risk with the plastic army men, cannons, and horses.

It's always available. Go to Toys-R-Us.

In fact, if you TRULY want the "original" version (1959) there's a reprint of that available at Toys-R-Us now too for $29.99: http://www.toysrus.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3452274



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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:56 pm
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Bipf wrote:
The stickers and the fact that you're supposed to destroy components feels gimmicky. Maybe they're trying to appeal to teenagers. If a hobby game publisher produced this game, I'm guessing that instead of using stickers, they'd use cardboard tokens. I think many people appreciate modular game boards, and a board that morphs through a campaign sounds cool, but I for one like to preserve my components.

I think that's disingenuous. I'm not a teenager by any means, but I am intensely interested in this, in a way that I haven't been interested in a Risk title in years. I think the fact that the changes are permanent ups the criticality of decisions, and that's a GOOD THING. When decisions matter, you tend to take them more seriously. Also, I love that I can own a copy, and a friend can own a copy, and we'll have completely different games after a period of time.

This is a ballsy move for Hasbro - I, for one, think they should get kudos for backing something that's a bit edgy and likely to engender exactly the kinds of responses that some of you are showing in this thread.
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:24 pm
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ScottB wrote:
I think the fact that the changes are permanent ups the criticality of decisions, and that's a GOOD THING. When decisions matter, you tend to take them more seriously.

Exactly!

It's like playing poker for fun versus playing for money. Players bring their A-game when money is on the line, even if it's just a tiny bit. I can see my game group having everyone pitch in 5 or 10 bucks to buy a copy of this game, so everyone is invested. I think that'll make for a fantastic ongoing game experience!
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  • Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:59 pm
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J J
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cbs42 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I think the fact that the changes are permanent ups the criticality of decisions, and that's a GOOD THING. When decisions matter, you tend to take them more seriously.

Exactly!

It's like playing poker for fun versus playing for money. Players bring their A-game when money is on the line, even if it's just a tiny bit. I can see my game group having everyone pitch in 5 or 10 bucks to buy a copy of this game, so everyone is invested. I think that'll make for a fantastic ongoing game experience!


I play my best at all times. I don't play poker. I don't play for money. And I expect a board game to be played for the rest of my life.

Like I said above, marketing department garbage; and like I've said in other threads, I'm quite obviously not who they target.
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:31 am
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JasonJ0 wrote:
cbs42 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I think the fact that the changes are permanent ups the criticality of decisions, and that's a GOOD THING. When decisions matter, you tend to take them more seriously.

Exactly!

It's like playing poker for fun versus playing for money. Players bring their A-game when money is on the line, even if it's just a tiny bit. I can see my game group having everyone pitch in 5 or 10 bucks to buy a copy of this game, so everyone is invested. I think that'll make for a fantastic ongoing game experience!


I play my best at all times. I don't play poker. I don't play for money. And I expect a board game to be played for the rest of my life.

Like I said above, marketing department garbage; and like I've said in other threads, I'm quite obviously not who they target.

Call it what you like. I call it inovative, exciting, and bold and I can't wait to learn more.
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:53 am
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It's only viable in a group.

I've got zero interest in sitting down at a con and starting a game, where a tremendous amount of crap has already "happened" to the world in question before I got there.

I can get that online...and far more effectively.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:29 am
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JasonJ0 wrote:
cbs42 wrote:
ScottB wrote:
I think the fact that the changes are permanent ups the criticality of decisions, and that's a GOOD THING. When decisions matter, you tend to take them more seriously.

Exactly!

It's like playing poker for fun versus playing for money. Players bring their A-game when money is on the line, even if it's just a tiny bit. I can see my game group having everyone pitch in 5 or 10 bucks to buy a copy of this game, so everyone is invested. I think that'll make for a fantastic ongoing game experience!


I play my best at all times. I don't play poker. I don't play for money. And I expect a board game to be played for the rest of my life.

Like I said above, marketing department garbage; and like I've said in other threads, I'm quite obviously not who they target.


I completely disagree. If this was being driven by the marketing department, we would have Shrek Risk. Easy to implement, guaranteed to move x number of copies, no risk, good ROI.

Rob posted in the game thread two items:
1) the changes are permanent
2) the game is being targeted to the hobby stores, not the mass channel

If this really was a move by the 'marketing' department as a gimmick, releasing a game for the hobby channel is not the best way to make your numbers.

I think that while it's easy and popular to bash hasbro, sometimes they come out with some innovative and interesting stuff. Sometimes they push the envelope in small ways - they added some interesting elements to monopoly in tropical tycoon, they brought back Harris to rewrite and rerelease axis and allies, they brought miniature games to the masses with heroscape, and now this. I don't know if I'll like this game, but it certainly pushes the boundaries of game design.
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:30 am
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jaredh wrote:
It's only viable in a group.

I've got zero interest in sitting down at a con and starting a game, where a tremendous amount of crap has already "happened" to the world in question before I got there.

I can get that online...and far more effectively.
Except that every game you play takes place in a world where a 'tremendous amount of crap has already "happened", with no exceptions. The only difference is that the crap happened during someone else's game and has created for you a new and unique game to play where in all other games the crap happened in a designers mind which has it's merrits of course but is the run of the mill and is exactly what happens in those online games as well.

Anyway, it remains to be seen if these ideas are worth crowing about either way but I am excited about the daring innovation this game represents. Good on you guys.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:34 am
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ScottB wrote:
Bipf wrote:
The stickers and the fact that you're supposed to destroy components feels gimmicky. Maybe they're trying to appeal to teenagers. If a hobby game publisher produced this game, I'm guessing that instead of using stickers, they'd use cardboard tokens. I think many people appreciate modular game boards, and a board that morphs through a campaign sounds cool, but I for one like to preserve my components.

I think that's disingenuous. I'm not a teenager by any means, but I am intensely interested in this, in a way that I haven't been interested in a Risk title in years. I think the fact that the changes are permanent ups the criticality of decisions, and that's a GOOD THING. When decisions matter, you tend to take them more seriously. Also, I love that I can own a copy, and a friend can own a copy, and we'll have completely different games after a period of time.

This is a ballsy move for Hasbro - I, for one, think they should get kudos for backing something that's a bit edgy and likely to engender exactly the kinds of responses that some of you are showing in this thread.


Eh, to each their own. I shouldn't have said "teenagers", sorry for the put-down. Stickers would be handy for the obvious reason that when you fold up the board, they'll remain in place. Still feels a bit over the top for me, though I can see why some might really like it.

I still think the changing board for the campaign is a cool idea, I just wasn't too keen on how it was being done.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 6:38 am
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Antike is still my favorite Gerdts/rondel game of all of them...I play a lot of 2 player game...Antike Duellum is a sure sale to me if it happens.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:49 am
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I second that, Casus Belli is landing on my wishlist.
 
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  • Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:11 am
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cbs42 wrote:
Gromguitar4 wrote:
I WISH they would come back out with the original Risk with the plastic army men, cannons, and horses.

It's always available. Go to Toys-R-Us.



I want this one like I had back in the day. http://www.amazon.com/Hasbro-00044-Risk/dp/B00000IWCX/ref=sr...

I loved those miniatures. Now, it looks like arrows are used... Lame.
 
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  • Edited Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:12 pm
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ScottB wrote:
I think the fact that the changes are permanent ups the criticality of decisions, and that's a GOOD THING. When decisions matter, you tend to take them more seriously.


I'm on the gimmicky side. FFG's "Road to Legends" Descent expansion is meant to be played over several sessions, and has a recordkeeping system that doesn't rely up on changing your components. As yet another OCD hobby gamer, I don't play the same game all that often, and the idea of stickers peeling on a boardgame surface after a few months between games doesn't thrill me. Of course, as someone who remembers playing Risk as a teen, playing the game just to destroy half the board would be amusing. Not exactly for the next player playing, but amusing!

 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:40 am
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I keep reading all of these "thou shalt not deface your board game components" posts, and there is a big part of me that thinks this could be a paradigm shift in game design that a lot of people are going to miss.

One because it's Risk.
Two because it requires your game to permanently change as a result of game play.

Games get reworked and refined all the time. It's truly sad that something truly innovative is going to get passed on purely because of the original source material. We know a couple little snippets of information about it, and there is already a reasonable amount of people expressing that they won't entertain the idea of the game because it is just Risk (alternately because it is made by Hasbro). At least keep an open mind and learn a little more before completely dismissing the idea "because I don't like Risk"; this one could be big.

I like to say there are a lot of "holy cows" in my favorite sport, and no one wants to kill the holy cow (translated: There are a lot of traditions that are at best ineffective, at worst detrimental in my favorite sport. A lot of coaches hang on to these traditions like Charleton Heston and his firearms even when sport science, track records, and results say the traditions should be discarded or modified.) A lot of the talk about modifying the components just smacks of these holy cows. I can't help but think all of the people getting the game and doing things to ensure the possibility of a reboot are just setting themselves up for completely missing the point.
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  • Posted Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:25 am
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I don't like permanently marking a game, but it's precisely because Risk Legacy goes there that it sounds so groundbreakingly original and innovative - I think it's brilliant.

Also, it seems JKLM is really stuffing designers around... yuk
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  • Edited Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:29 pm
  • Posted Tue Aug 23, 2011 2:28 pm
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Aaron Silverman
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I am pretty sure that JKLM no longer exists, sadly.

A board game that goes through permanent changes is certainly original and innovative, but I don't know that "brilliant" is a word I'd use. Have they playtested every possible iteration? What if one finds out that the particular order in which he's applied stickers/ modified components screws up the game balance?
 
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  • Posted Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:48 pm
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J J
Australia

Agent Minivann wrote:
I keep reading all of these "thou shalt not deface your board game components" posts, and there is a big part of me that thinks this could be a paradigm shift in game design that a lot of people are going to miss.

One because it's Risk.
Two because it requires your game to permanently change as a result of game play.

Games get reworked and refined all the time. It's truly sad that something truly innovative is going to get passed on purely because of the original source material. We know a couple little snippets of information about it, and there is already a reasonable amount of people expressing that they won't entertain the idea of the game because it is just Risk (alternately because it is made by Hasbro). At least keep an open mind and learn a little more before completely dismissing the idea "because I don't like Risk"; this one could be big.


I don't care which game it is (Risk is nothing special to me, and has been re-worked quite a few times anyway).

It's the gimmicky method by which the manufacturers propose re-working the game that I don't like. All I see is another way to make people buy more of their product, by changing what is for me one of the more fundamental aspects of board games - I buy it now, and I get to play it forever.

I just see the beginnings of what I would call "DRM creep" - not DRM itself, but the attitude from manufacturers toward use and ownership of what they make by the people who paid for it (not, you note, bought - the attitude is changing to one of you rent it for a bit, with severe limitations).

Now, I may well be making too much of it, but it IS Hasbro, one of the megacorps lining up to (forcibly) change the way the world views property, which is something to be opposed everywhere it may be found.
 
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  • Edited Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:45 pm
  • Posted Tue Aug 23, 2011 11:43 pm
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Clay Hales
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Tucson
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JasonJ0 wrote:
I just see the beginnings of what I would call "DRM creep" - not DRM itself, but the attitude from manufacturers toward use and ownership of what they make by the people who paid for it (not, you note, bought - the attitude is changing to one of you rent it for a bit, with severe limitations).

Unless there is some new version of Godwin's Law that replaces Hitler/Nazi with DRM, I don't see your point. I don't see how buying a game, and my play on it changes it to make it a unique experience that is mine (and my group's) is equated with the laughable notion of ownership espoused by the various groups that champion DRM. This game will be mine. It will not be something that is rented to me. It will be more than just a game I own, it will be a chronicle of the battles we have fought. Every time we play after the mechanics stop dictating changes we will relive that history. If the game play and design on this are solid, this will be epic. And it will be mine. No misguided corporate idea of ownership will get in the way of that. It will be game and experience.

If this is all wrapped up in the idea that we should be able to reboot at will, go ahead and buy a new box. Or go through a whole lot of expense in sleeves and other supplies and manpower to play it with the option of rebooting, but if the game play and design are solid, I can see this cheapening the experience. Then it will just be a game that you own. The experience will be diluted.
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  • Posted Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:01 am
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Steve Duff
Canada
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Ontario
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Agent Minivann wrote:
Unless there is some new version of Godwin's Law that replaces Hitler/Nazi with DRM, I don't see your point.


I don't think the analogy is that far off. DRM is all about preventing legitimate buyers from re-selling the things they've purchased once they're done with them.

And that's exactly what this game does. When you're done with it and want to trade it or sell it off, you're pretty much out of luck. Who's going to want the game after it's been consumed? Almost no one. The "living game" experience that the first user got is gone.
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  • Posted Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:15 am
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Nigel Buckle
United Kingdom
Forest Hill
London
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Quote:
My one play of this game dates to the 2008 UK Games Expo and wish Nigel well in finally getting a published copy on the table. His prototype was nicely done, but you're a tad limited in who can play the game when only a single copy is out there...


There are other copies around - a number of geeks took the print/play route (and a few really pimped their copies).

Thanks for the promotion
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 24, 2011 2:01 pm
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Tony Ripley
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On "using up a game". Alas, yes, I do sometimes go to the movies with the family when they first come out to really enjoy the fun of "1st release weekend" and spend $50 for 2 hours of entertainment and some pop-corn.

Would it be much different if I spent $30 or $40 on a game that several folks played over several gaming sessions (and used microwave pop-corn) and had a great time?

The "value trap" gets us all in different ways. While I know that making my fast food meal a Large for only 60 cents more increases the amount of food I get for the money (good value?), my metabolism has significantly slowed and I don’t need the calories (unless having more of me to hug is considered a ‘good value’ by my wife soblue ).

I like the idea of games we can collect, cherish and play as well as there being games that can be devoured in game play with the remnants becoming "trophies for the victor".
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  • Posted Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:39 pm
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Lee Fisher
United States
Downingtown
Pennsylvania
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For the record, for Risk:Legacy

RobDaviau wrote:
Retail is $55 to $60.
 
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  • Posted Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:46 pm
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UnknownParkerBrother wrote:
Agent Minivann wrote:
Unless there is some new version of Godwin's Law that replaces Hitler/Nazi with DRM, I don't see your point.


I don't think the analogy is that far off. DRM is all about preventing legitimate buyers from re-selling the things they've purchased once they're done with them.

And that's exactly what this game does. When you're done with it and want to trade it or sell it off, you're pretty much out of luck. Who's going to want the game after it's been consumed? Almost no one. The "living game" experience that the first user got is gone.

The analogy is very far off. For one, DRM is not about preventing users from reselling stuff. Some forms of DRM do not affect resale in the slightest, such as those on many video games. It's all about preventing users who do not have a license from using the digital content.

Now, you may disagree with the philosophy and politics behind DRM - I'm no big fan of it myself. But the appropriate place to begin disagreement with any position is by understanding it well enough to articulate it fairly, and it's clear that you're not able to do that - for either DRM, or for Risk: Legacy.

This is a game that is meant to be altered. That's what you're buying. If you are looking for something that will have resale value, then look elsewhere. I don't know about you, but that's not a deciding factor for me when purchasing games, because I don't buy games to offload them. I buy them to play them and enjoy them.

Your complaint is more like being upset because you bought a model, built it, and now can't sell it as brand new. And that's, frankly, kind of dumb.
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  • Posted Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:20 pm
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Burster of Bubbles, Destroyer of Dreams.
United States
Sunnyvale
California
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Gromguitar4 wrote:
I WISH they would come back out with the original Risk with the plastic army men, cannons, and horses.


I hate to break it to you, but the original Risk had wooden blocks, and after that little abstract plastic bits. The plastic toys came later.
 
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  • Posted Thu Aug 25, 2011 11:46 pm
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W. Eric Martin
United States
Apex
North Carolina
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Morganza wrote:
Gromguitar4 wrote:
I WISH they would come back out with the original Risk with the plastic army men, cannons, and horses.

I hate to break it to you, but the original Risk had wooden blocks, and after that little abstract plastic bits. The plastic toys came later.

Hate to break it to him? You're the living embodiment of your username!
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  • Posted Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:09 am
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Ronin Daimyo
Israel
Jerusalem
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Looking forward to hearing more about Casus Belli

Thanks 5vp
 
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  • Posted Wed Sep 14, 2011 1:54 pm
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