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Loofish Ramblings

My thoughts and ponderings on games and gaming, including lunch time sessions, couple and family gaming and thoughts on the games that are catching my eye.
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Gaming in the Moment or How the Environment Affects the Game

Who's the more foolish? The fool or fool that plays after the fool?
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A little story: about a year ago, I went to one of the local stores for board games and I got to play Dungeon Lords. There was one other player new to the game and two veterans. They did a fine job teaching and took care of the details, so I didn't have to worry about that sort of thing. As it happened, I ended up getting a bit too Evil and so I had the Paladin turning up on my door in both years, along with all the strongest adventurers. I had quite a few tunnels and rooms conquered, though I did dispatch all or almost all of the invaders, which was some decent points. Despite my troubles, I ended up second and - the important part - had a blast playing it. I went away considering whether I should get a copy or at least find someone who I saw regularly that had one.

Well, as it happened, another friend of mine got a copy for Christmas and it has been an ongoing quest to get to play it with him sometime. We got over to his house a couple of times, but we either had too many (only plays up to 4) or he wasn't sure enough on the rules to teach it - he did spare us a moment of "teach as we play" (and by moment I mean several hours of confusion and frustration). After the last trip over, I asked to borrow it and I tried it out 2 player with my wife.

BGGers are split on the relative merits of playing Dungeon Lords with less than the full complement of 4. Some just don't like the phantom player, others like the extra tactical consideration playing a card for the ghost gives you. I don't usually mind a phantom as long as the upkeep is not onerous and I'd say that was acceptable for Dungeon Lords. However, it did fall upon me to more fully learn how to play the game and then impart that knowledge to my wife. I like to think I did OK in that regard and apart from a few moments of rule-diving, the play went smoothly - and it was generally simpler than I had envisioned when reading it through. On the other hand, I didn't do as well as in my first game, struggling to retain monsters in my employ (the demon was a poor choice in hindsight), generally not managing my resources as well as I might. Meanwhile, my wife played efficiently and effectively, wiping out the supposedly stronger adventurers of the 2nd year in 2 turns (which would have been 1 if the spell had not forced her dragon to retreat). Furthermore, I did not enjoy the game as much as the first time and that led me to wonder about the environment around the playing of a game and how it affects the enjoyment we get from that game.

In the first game, I was free to focus on my own game with minimal distraction, plus there is the rush of learning the basics of a new game. In the second, I knew the basics but was distracted by the learning of the minutiae (never as fun), the difference of the 2 player game and, while in neither game did I play flawlessly, int he first game it went more gloriously wrong than the rather pitiable way it went awry in the second.

There are lots of reasons why a game might be dismissed or heralded after a first play that have nothing to do with how good a game it actually is. A great game might be ruined by poor explanation and a mediocre one raised up by the camaraderie of the other players. There might also be things that happen in the game that deflate the experience. I've played games of Bang! where a player was dead before they got a turn, but then others where it seemed that they could do no wrong. Imagine that was the first game - which one would be likely to want to play it again?

Another example, one I am sure all readers of this will have experienced: that game of Settlers of Catan where you could not get a break, where you struggled half the game just to build a road, then got enough resources to build that first settlement. Possibly the maddest I have ever gotten playing a game was one such game where I did exactly that. Triumphantly, I placed the settlement, only to be told that another player had just built too close to that spot and it was as such an illegal placement.

Most such bad experiences in games, at least as first time plays leave the player with the desire to never play it again, but if a game is interesting enough, it should give you enough hints that there might be a good game in there, one you might under other circumstances enjoy. In point of fact, my first play of Ticket to Ride was like that. I made my tickets and, at one key moment (or so I thought) blocked out my opponent from a spot and he had to build around. But he had enough time to still get his route done and had built on longer connections, so he won. I remember thinking this was somehow wrong, but the game had been presented to us as the Spiel de Jahres, so maybe I had misjudged it? So I gave it another chance and, while it is not the deepest game, I still find it entertaining once in a while.

I know a lot of gamers on BGG like to feel that they are able to judge many games on their first play and decide whether it is a keeper, worthy of further play. I'd say the majority of the time that is true, there are some very experienced board gamers here. But it is worth considering whether that impression has been tainted by outside factors and the game is truly as bad as you thought it was.
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Subscribe sub options Wed Sep 7, 2011 8:11 pm
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Gary Heidenreich
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I completely agree that the people you play with and the circumstances, as well, really affect a view on a game. I know my view of Primordial Soup is one game like that. I was not having a great day thinking and was completely out of the game the whole time. Did not enjoy the game at my first sitting and ultimately trading it. I couldn't give it a second chance that is how strong my first impression of the game was.

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  • Posted Wed Sep 7, 2011 8:29 pm
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DoomTurtle
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After playing a game once (especially one I really like afterwards and want to buy), I usually read through the rules to see if we were playing the game properly, and if I would still like it even if we didn't. In most cases things are correct, or a simple rule here or there might be missed. It took me only one play to decide I wanted Dungeon Lords, Caylus, and Navegador, and luckily, those three are in my top favorites.

I do agree that someone teaching you the rules when they know them very well makes for a much more enjoyable experience, and if we had to go through the rules a bunch while playing those 3 games I mentioned, it could have tainted my view of them and I would have never given them a second look.

Luckily for my friends, I am the rule master of our group. I can retain pretty much all the minutia for the games we have, and everyone is better off for it. They enjoy themselves because they don't have to worry about the minor upkeep, and I enjoy myself more knowing we are playing it correctly and as intended which helps keep the integrity of the game intact.

I can definitely see why the IOS board games are becoming so popular since all of the details are taken care of. It's somewhat of a shame, because I much prefer playing face to face with the real thing, but it definitely makes heavier games more accessible.

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  • Posted Wed Sep 7, 2011 8:37 pm
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Who's the more foolish? The fool or fool that plays after the fool?
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Thanks for the comments!

bop517 wrote:
I couldn't give it a second chance that is how strong my first impression of the game was.

Now I am curious how you would react if you were to play it again.

My wife commented that she doesn't have much interest in playing Dungeon Lords again, saying that it didn't present her with enough of a challenge. I've seen others comment that DL doesn't offer enough choices for the length of game, though I can't help wondering if I had been a bit more focused (or there had been more players?) then the game might have been more interesting and thus increase her desire to play it again. For myself, even though I didn't enjoy it as much, I want to play a bit better so I want to try it again. Maybe I'll get the chance as a 4 player.
 
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  • Posted Wed Sep 7, 2011 10:38 pm
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Dan C
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Another example, one I am sure all readers of this will have experienced: that game of Settlers of Catan where you could not get a break, where you struggled half the game just to build a road,


Yes! I know it. We call it the Settlers lull. Half an hour goes by where you, or even worse -everybody, are rolling and passing dice because you can't build anything, or get enough of one resource to trade with the bank.
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  • Posted Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:40 pm
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