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Designer Diary: Mutant Meeples – Inspired By, But Quite Different From Ricochet Robots

Ted Alspach
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Let me get this out of the way first: Mutant Meeples has, at its core, a similar mechanism to Alex Randolph's Ricochet Robots. Players try to move a meeple (or robot) to a location on a maze-like board, with the limitation that they can't change direction until they hit another object. I've been calling it a "pathfinding" mechanism.

The strange thing is that there aren't, to the best of my knowledge, any other games that have this mechanism in place. Even Randolph's precursor to RR, Die Verbotene Stadt, has only an inkling of this mechanism – and, as any RR fan will tell you, it's an excellent mechanism that requires a part of your brain unused by pretty much any other game out there.

Usually, in the world of board games that we live in, when there's a unique mechanism introduced in a game (particularly a successful one), game designers line up by the dozens (or hundreds) with games that use that mechanism in a similar fashion, with recent examples of this being Caylus (worker placement) and Dominion (deck-building). For whatever reason, this never happened with the pathfinding mechanism in Ricochet Robots. At least, not until now...

My History with Ricochet Robots

According to my BGG records, I didn't play RR until a little over two years ago, during the summer of 2009, and I was pretty sucky at it, with my wife crushing me in our first game. Over time, the game grew on me and I became quite enamored with it. In the summer of 2010, I thought it would be cool to make a giant version of RR with big plastic robots, so I started putting together the graphics for it in Illustrator and bought some cool Bionicle robots. Other things distracted me from that project, however, and I put it aside.

Earlier this year I thought it would be a fun project, but as I started getting things together again, I realized that something was missing. While I really liked the game, it wasn't worthy of a large version – I know that statement might be sacrilege for some – as I didn't care for a number of issues in RR, namely:

• Moreso than many other games, the person whose brain is particularly attuned to pathfinding would often run away with the game, collecting more discs than everyone else combined, leaving other players pretty much out of contention after four or five locations had been reached.

• There were really long periods of silence, especially when a puzzle was particularly difficult, requiring twenty or so "moves".

• In puzzles with more than ten moves, it was easy for someone to entirely forget how they got there.

• While the board was customizable, it wasn't really different.

• The robots were all the same (except for the colors).

Inspiring a New Design

I remember pulling out the RR game after thinking about these things and looking at it. And then it hit me. I could make a game that used that pathfinding mechanism but addressed all of these issues. Well, at least most of them.

Initially, as I went through the possibilities in my head, I conceived of something that was much more of a Ricochet Robots 2.0, kind of a sequel to the game as it is. Only when I sat down to flesh out the concept did inspiration hit me: What if each of the pieces had a unique superpower? And what if they were actually superheroes? And why would they be trying to get to a location? To prevent a crime from taking place! And it was pretty obvious why they could turn only when they ran into another object – they all had super speed, and it was hard to control, a la Ralph Hinkley's trouble with flight on The Greatest American Hero.

Armed with the excitement such an engaging idea can bring on, I went to work on a skeletal ruleset. Meeples were an obvious choice to use as the pieces, and as I was writing, I started referring to their mutant super powers. Naming them (and the game) Mutant Meeples felt SO right and provided even more inspiration. What was the player's role in all of this? To figure out which of the meeples were the brightest and best...so that they could form a super team!

The Meeples

Initially I had six super-powered meeples:

DJ Yellowjacket (who is now M.C. Edge),
Ozzi Mosis (she was red initially, as the internal "building" walls were red, but after a quick modification Ozzy became a guy and turned gray),
Force Fence (initially green, he changed to brown and was renamed Shortstop),
Blue Bouncer (who changed to green and became Forrest Jump),
Ghost (he was white and his superpower allowed him to pass through other meeples, but ultimately he was the least useful of the group and was put aside), and
Nudge (who was gray, but eventually turned red and became Sidestep).

Even with these six, I could tell I was on to something. It was exciting to use their powers, and when you used two or three meeples with their powers all in combination, it was really fulfilling.

Over time I added Skewt, The Blue Beamer and Carbon, removing Ghost from the lineup. Nacho Fast and Swapmeet, the two meeples in the Mutant Meeples: Sidekicks expansion, weren't even on my radar when I finalized the eight meeple line-up. More on those two later.

Initially each of the meeples were simply different colors. During early playtests, this proved to be a problem as players had a significant learning curve associating the colors with the mutant meeple super powers. When I added little stickers with each of their powers on them, that learning curve all but disappeared. Now I knew I had to have custom-painted meeples – which would be cool anyway, but now the designs on the meeples are an integral part of game play!

Board Design

Design of the game board(s) went through several phases. The initial board was 20x20, and had a ton of walls and even corridors as I wanted the players to have a sense that they were racing through a city to get to the scene of a crime. Over months of playtesting, we discovered that more walls meant easier solutions – not necessarily "shorter" solutions (in terms of how many turns it takes to get to your goal), but solutions that were more obvious. Over time, I reduced the number of walls significantly, removing most of the "corner" pieces.

One of my testers commented that even then he felt it was too easy, as solutions often could be achieved by a single meeple in five or fewer moves. I found that it was too easy sometimes as well, though at this point I was becoming quite the expert pathfinder, so I was trying to keep my new-found aptitude at arm's length, so I wouldn't end up making a game that was too difficult for someone not versed in the ways of pathfinding.

The solution was to create TWO game boards: Meeptropolis, with its buildings and narrow corridors creating a more structured and discoverable "path" to solutions, and Meepville, a rural community with lots of open space that was particularly challenging for our super speedsters to navigate successfully. For your first few games, Meeptropolis is definitely the side to use, but once you become comfortable with pathfinding, you'll find yourself drawn to the wide open fields that make up Meepville.

Overviews of Meeptropolis and Meepville

You'll notice the board has two sets of letters, from A-R across and down. Initially it had letters and numbers, making it an Acquire-ish kind of board. That allowed for an even distribution of "scene of the crime" locations, with each letter and number making sure that the Scene of the Crime was always in each row and column at least once during the game (if you ran through all the tiles). But then I switched to letters, primarily for two reasons:

1) The large number of letter and number tiles were unwieldy. Using just letters meant half as many tiles.

2) Using just letters created a bunch of "free" spots in a diagonal line down the middle of the board, where the scene of the crime would never take place (AA, BB, CC, etc.). I could therefore use those spots for starting positions, ensuring that the first scene of the crime could never be where a meeple starts. (Such an occurance is relatively unlikely during the game itself as with each tile draw there's only a 2.6% chance that a crime will appear where a meeple already is.) I also used those spots for the four locations where The Blue Beamer can teleport. I removed the AA and RR corners (adding a bit of challenge, as corners otherwise were easier).

To make it easier to know which of the tiles was a column and which was a row, I added Street and Avenue names to the rows and columns, respectively, and created a small game board where you would place each of the tiles, with the board also having a key to the different mutant meeples and their powers.

Gameplay

While I did try to vary the core game play, the pathfinding mechanism would not be denied, and soon I found myself figuring out how to build on top of that mechanism rather than modify it. I wanted the game to have a rich theme, so I tried all sorts of things, including:

• A "Hall of Justice" style start location (really bad idea).
• A moving Supervillian target (a really frustrating idea).
• A modular board like Ricochet Robots (an unnecessary idea that just didn't work with my game's theme).

Outside of a few flashes of brilliance, the game play evolved naturally. One of the ways it evolved was to have each player have his own board and set of tokens to track the movements of his team members. Initially those tokens were to track which of the players' meeples had reached the Scene of the Crime so that meeple could be removed and the player could get closer to the end goal of having his final super team.


But then we started using the tokens to track which meeple was moving. I created a game board (similar to what the finished game ships with) with four rows and ten spaces on each row to help players do this. Then I made it mandatory that the player had to mark the meeples used before he could take a number, which served to ensure that he (1) took the right number and (2) had a workable solution.

The side benefit of doing this is that it's incredibly easy to retrace your meeples' steps when it came time to "show your work" on how you reached the Scene of the Crime. To further enable this, Mutant Meeples has a rule that limits meeples to a single set of moves; once you start moving another meeple, the first one you move can't be moved again. This "restriction" limits the decision tree for the player and (with the exception of those situations in which an experienced RR player would know it's useful) makes it easier to come up with a solution.

The Catch-Up Mechanism

One of the things players like about Mutant Meeples – and how the design totally differs from Ricochet Robots – is that it has an innovative catch-up mechanism. Not only is it innovative, but it feels natural, not tacked on like the penalty in Age of Steam.

I'd love to take full credit for the mechanism, but it happened pretty much organically. As soon as I tried having each player limit himself to moving meeples that were not yet on his super team, it suddenly became apparent that having fewer meeples made the game more and more challenging – and those players with a lot of meeples, even just one or two more than you, had an easier time coming up with solutions. I love this "feature", knowing that in many other game designs it has been incredibly difficult to get to that place after the rest of the game seems to be working well.

Kickstarter and the Sidekicks Expansion

As I developed Mutant Meeples, I realized that bringing it to market would be a challenge for Bézier Games, which up until this point has released mostly card games, expansions, and one semi-big-box game, Beer & Pretzels. I decided that this would be a great candidate to test out Kickstarter. After a successful campaign to publish my Board 2 Pieces comics in two books, I set to work on the Kickstarter project for Mutant Meeples. While the game was done and close to being ready for production, I had a lot of work to do to prepare it for Kickstarter as I was lacking in two areas: rewards (other than the game itself) and a video.

Initially I thought I would create several tiers, each of which would contain a new component; you could get maybe an extra meeple at the first level, the "modification tiles" at another level, and so on. I also seriously considered putting in an electronic timer as a reward, but unfortunately the economics of that just didn't make sense. (The quantities were way too high for something that wasn't going to be chosen by all backers.)

Eventually I settled on a single expansion: Mutant Meeples: Sidekicks, which contains two new mutant meeples and several tiles that can be used to modify the game board. The two new meeples are both great add-ons; fun replacement meeples that work well with other meeples, but not so much on their own. And the gameboard-modifying tiles were also very much add-ons. For people who really enjoy the game, they'll find that customizing the game board is a welcome way to keep the game fresh after dozens of plays (and make it super hard if they'd like, too).

The video was a task in and of itself. I spent about thirty hours on the video and hired The Dice Tower's Eric Michael Summerer to do the voice work. I'm super pleased with the result. (You can check out the final video on the Mutant Meeples Kickstarter page.

Mutant Meeples Takes on a Life of Its Own

As I started doing external playtesting, I realized two things:

1) Anyone who had played Ricochet Robots would immediately relate it to Mutant Meeples – but once they played, everyone said it's something they liked a lot better and thought they could get it to the table more than RR. Most people said it was just more "fun" than RR, and several of them really liked the catch-up mechanism.

2) Anyone who hadn't played RR just plain liked Mutant Meeples. The challenge of finding a path is engaging and being able to use the super powers is pretty compelling. There was also some strange satisfaction and pride when they found a solution that didn't require any additional super powers, too.

Mutant Meeples is now taking on a life of its own, and maybe it will even start a new wave of pathfinding games. I know I'd be first in line to try them out!

Ted Alspach
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Subscribe sub options Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:30 am
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Anthony Boydell
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*phew* Getting that 'its inspired by' statement out of the way is an excellent move...one can almost hear the accusers and knee-jerkers circling above!

This looks wonderful, Mr A...I'd wish you luck, but I think this will be a massive hit for you!

Tony
 
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 9:45 am
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air sonist
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I like your diary, but the Kickstarter is just too expensive if you don't live in the US.

Maybe next year at Essen
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 12:00 pm
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Firestone
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airsonist wrote:
I like your diary, but the Kickstarter is just too expensive if you don't live in the U.S.


It's too expensive if you do live in the U.S...
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 1:39 pm
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Marc Waters
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Scott Firestone IV wrote:
airsonist wrote:
I like your diary, but the Kickstarter is just too expensive if you don't live in the U.S.


It's too expensive if you do live in the U.S...


+1. $60 dollars for the core + expansion just does not "feel" right. THat being said, I did knee-jerk and pledge, but I am seriously contemplating cancelling.
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:00 pm
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Jack Hernandez
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MarcJWaters wrote:
Scott Firestone IV wrote:
airsonist wrote:
I like your diary, but the Kickstarter is just too expensive if you don't live in the U.S.


It's too expensive if you do live in the U.S...


+1. $60 dollars for the core + expansion just does not "feel" right. THat being said, I did knee-jerk and pledge, but I am seriously contemplating cancelling.


I also agree it's too expensive, I like the idea a lot, but yes it's expensive
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 3:42 pm
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Nate Downs
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Sorry to add to the negativity, but the price is why I haven't pledged.
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 4:00 pm
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Bernard C. Trombley
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For a game on Kickstarter I think the price is just fine for the core + expansion. I can see the above complaints about the price 'in the US' likely a product of people purchasing from online discounters.

If that's the case then game buyers will have to come to terms that Kickstarter and 'discounters' really don't go together. Discounters already hurt this industry enough and continue to weaken already dangerously tough to run retail stores.

Kickstarter games are a nice way for game designers to both fund their projects more safely and to get recognition where distributors fail to do so for them.

I won't purchase through kickstarter if there is a chance this will hit retail stores because I believe in first and foremost trying to support the local guy and build the foundation for a healthy hobby. I know I'll miss out on the expansion which sucks, but to me its more important for the local game store to survive.

As a long time RR fan I really look forward to this. Especially for the reasons layed out above. I can't find anyone to play RR against outside of the occasional demo of my ability to play (500+ plays, 1 loss). I do hope the catch-up mechanic works well enough to entice new players into the pathfinding (as you term it) category of games.

-b
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:53 pm
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casperthegoth wrote:
Sorry to add to the negativity, but the price is why I haven't pledged.


I love the idea, and it looks really neat; sort of like a Magical Athlete in a maze kind of vibe, but I'm sad to say that the board looks like a sack of crumpled up assholes. Plain ugly doesn't begin to describe it. That needs fixing immediately or this thing is dead.

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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 7:36 pm
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Jamie Groulx
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Sounds amazing, unfortunately I find the price point to ba a little too high. Good luck!
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  • Posted Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:44 pm
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William Springer
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I almost didn't get in on the kickstarter, as I find the price to be too high - something I said both in the comments and when I talked about the game on That Train Game - but the game sounds REALLY fun and I can't wait to play it. I'm a big fan of Ricochet Robots, and a more complex version sounds kind of awesome :-)
 
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  • Posted Mon Nov 14, 2011 2:47 am
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SuperflyCircus Pete
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There's a game that is similar to Ricochet Robots in a sense: Khet
http://www.khet.com/

It has the same "move as far as possible until you can't" mechanic in there, but the object is different...it's about killing opposing pieces. Still, very neat game that feels a bit like Ricochet, and it's about 20 bucks cheaper than Mutant Meeps.
 
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  • Posted Mon Nov 14, 2011 1:11 pm
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Ted Alspach
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superflypete wrote:
I love the idea, and it looks really neat; sort of like a Magical Athlete in a maze kind of vibe, but I'm sad to say that the board looks like a sack of crumpled up assholes. Plain ugly doesn't begin to describe it. That needs fixing immediately or this thing is dead.


The board is still a work in progress. Hopefully it'll be upgraded to "wrinkled" instead of "crumpled" (or even better).
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  • Posted Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:51 pm
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Ted Alspach
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fallen wrote:
Sounds amazing, unfortunately I find the price point to ba a little too high.


Quote:
...more various issues with price...


I'm working on a few things here, such as a discounted 2-pack reward. Hopefully the price (if you buddy up with someone) will be more palatable. Once the new rewards are available, I'll post it here and in a few other forums where people have spoken up about this.

 
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  • Posted Mon Nov 14, 2011 5:53 pm
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I hate to say it, but I'd be interested as well if it weren't for the price point. The game looks good and I am sure it will get funded regardless.
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011 2:59 am
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William Springer
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The project briefly passed $9k, but now it's back down to 8.9. 17 days to go..
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011 3:51 am
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Ted Alspach
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By popular demand, I've added a new reward tier!!

Get TWO games & expansions for $90!


This reward is now available on Kickstarter at http://kck.st/tdBQSV
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  • Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:51 pm
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William Springer
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Well, with the new reward...anybody in the Madison, WI area want to get in on this with me?
 
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  • Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:11 pm
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Ted Alspach
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Yet another bonus: If you get the Sidekicks expansion, you'll not only get two additional Mutant Meeples, but you'll also get everything you need for a 7th player!
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  • Edited Fri Dec 2, 2011 6:50 pm
  • Posted Thu Nov 17, 2011 11:59 pm
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Nate Downs
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Any Columbus area takers on a two pack?
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 22, 2011 1:37 am
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Ted Alspach
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Only one day to go for Mutant Meeples...the project is pretty much guaranteed now at $13K (original goal was $10K).

Be sure to sign up as a back to ensure you get a copy of the Sidekicks expansion!!

http://kck.st/tdBQSV
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 2, 2011 6:51 pm
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Harald Mücke
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I am writing as member of the board of SAZ, the German Game author’s association. We hereby want to post our opinion on the alikeness of Mutant Meeples to Ricochet Robots by Alex Randolph.

In his statement from November 2011 (after the game fair in Essen), Ted Alspach stated that Mutant Meeples “has, at its core, a similar mechanism to Alex Randolph's Ricochet Robots“ and that “the strange thing is that there aren't, to the best of my knowledge, any other games that have this mechanism in place.”

We think it is correct / a good thing to point out where the origins of the game are. We also see that the inspiration provided by other games is basic to our work as game designers and that re-arranging and new combinations of single elements from other games is essential and mandatory.

However, in case of Mutant Meeples, we have to note that in our point of view the core mechanism of Ricochet Robots IS the game, which can be seen as reason for the fact that no game has come back on this mechanism before.

Ted stated that using an unique mechanism in a successful game often is used by other authors in later games, however, the mechanism then is taken into a different framework, a new game with new context and relating mechanisms. Mutant Meeples, however, is VERY close to its original.

There are examples for such cases in the past, e.g. the game, “Ohne Furcht und Adel” by Bruno Faidutti, which used core elements of the card game “Verräter”. Or the game “Big Boss” by Wolfgang Kramer quite close to “Acquire“. In both cases, the author / publisher did ask BEFOREHAND for permission to use that element in their game. In both cases the original author granted this right and in the new game, a clear note was included about the origin of that mechanism.

In case of Mutant Meeples to our knowledge that has not been done, which is unfortunate in our opinion.
 
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  • Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:36 pm
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David desJardins
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As a fan of Ricochet Robots and a buyer of Mutant Meeples, I think it's absurd to think that some sort of "permission" is owed to publish this game, and that would be a terrible precedent. So I'm glad the designer agrees with me.
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  • Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:16 pm
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David desJardins
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P.S. the idea that Big Boss should require permission from the Acquire designer/rightsowner is even more absurd!
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  • Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:17 pm
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W. Eric Martin
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DaviddesJ wrote:
As a fan of Ricochet Robots and a buyer of Mutant Meeples, I think it's absurd to think that some sort of "permission" is owed to publish this game, and that would be a terrible precedent. So I'm glad the designer agrees with me.

Not to mention that Alex Randolph died in 2004, which would make it tough to gain his approval.
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  • Posted Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:26 pm
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Ted Alspach
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I'm a little frustrated in that Harald has been sending out this message to other publishers and posting it here (and who knows where else) for purposes that I'm just not aware of.

Even more frustrating is that Harald sent me this same note last week, which I immediately responded to, but he does not mention this in this post (which he also posted in the game forum). Here's my response to his letter:

Quote:

Hi, Harald. Thank you for contacting me.

As I'm a big fan of the Ricochet Robots game, I definitely was very careful with this game so that it didn't feel too much like Ricochet Robots. While it does use a similar "sliding" mechanism, the gameplay itself is quite different. Here's a list of some of the key differences between the games:

• Each player is building a team of meeples, and can do so in any order.

• Each location can be anywhere on the board.

• The "race" to determine who gets to the location first is a one-time-shot where each player must "show their work" and doesn't get a chance to lower their answer after it is chosen.

• The game changes substantially from beginning to end, with a unique catchup mechanism for players who are behind (they have more choices while the leading players have fewer).

• Each of the meeples has some sort of unique power, resulting in several ways to find a unique solution.

• There are millions of board variations possible in the game thanks to the included tiles and double-sided board.

• Mutant Meeples is much more of a race than a puzzle.

There are probably others, but those are the main ones I can think of right now.

I'm sure there will be comparisons of Mutant Meeples to Ricochet Robots, at least in the short term, but it's my hope that gamers who experience Mutant Meeples *first* will hunt down Ricochet Robots and find its puzzle-like aspects also as enjoyable.

From a standpoint of should Mutant Meeples exist at all, I of course firmly believe that yes, it should, as the resulting gameplay provides gamers with such a different gaming experience than Ricochet Robots that not publishing it would be a disservice to gamers who like these sorts of brain burning challenges. For instance, while I'm a good friend of William Attia's and absolutely love Caylus, the first real worker placement game, I am very glad that the dozens (hundreds?) of worker placement games that followed it in the past five years have been enjoyable in their own way, and it wouldn't be fair to gamers not to have other games with a similar mechanism.

t
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  • Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:17 pm
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Harald Mücke
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Sorry, but a bit flat, since rights on inventions and creations automatically will be transfered to the successors...
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  • Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:16 pm
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Harald Mücke
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Hi again.

I think it is a good thing that this opened a general discussion. (See below for that, please!)

I have encouraged Ted to poste his reaction to my mail - I felt it would be wrong if I myself cite his reaction...

So this is not about "hunting down" Mutant Meeples, which I think is a good and interesting game. It also is no personal attack on Ted as some remarks before seem to point out.

So away with personal attacking and such things, not any intention of that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

What we did point out in our statement is that we (not me) see a problem in the way an intellectual property has been dealt with - which is our core asset as authors.

If you read our statement carefully, our opinion is that the core mechanism in Mutant Meeples is taken from R.Robots. That mechanism has been invented by a designer, so it is his creation. If I invent a new mechanism, I would (maybe) not find it very pleasing to see that mechanism copied (for me definitely not in a war game). I am sure that most designers are willing to grant permission on using their mechanisms, especially if they are mentioned.

(Perfect place for a remark to David deJardins: Big Boss HAD the permission of the author from Aquire! --- It is the perfect example of how it should have been done!)

If I take Mutant Meeples into the world of books, I would place it in view of R.Robot in the area of „fan fiction“ – this term is clearly marked with taking a basic idea (the invention) and filling it and widen it with new ideas. Fan fiction, however, is always non-commercial. If it becomes commercial, you need the authorization of the publisher. Why should that be so different in the gaming world?!

I agree that there are many other games that share mechanisms and internally this is part of our discussion („copied of not?“, „how do deal with using a mechanism“). We will make a statement on that discussion soon. Maybe we find a place where this discussion can be also done here at BGG...

In our statement, we defined how SAZ would like to see these type of topics dealt with: asking for permission beforehand and naming of the original inventor.
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  • Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:35 pm
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Lee Fisher
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spielmaterial wrote:
Hi again.

I think it is a good thing that this opened a general discussion. (See below for that, please!)

I have encouraged Ted to poste his reaction to my mail - I felt it would be wrong if I myself cite his reaction...

So this is not about "hunting down" Mutant Meeples, which I think is a good and interesting game. It also is no personal attack on Ted as some remarks before seem to point out.

So away with personal attacking and such things, not any intention of that!
------------------------------------------------------------------------

What we did point out in our statement is that we (not me) see a problem in the way an intellectual property has been dealt with - which is our core asset as authors.

If you read our statement carefully, our opinion is that the core mechanism in Mutant Meeples is taken from R.Robots. That mechanism has been invented by a designer, so it is his creation. If I invent a new mechanism, I would (maybe) not find it very pleasing to see that mechanism copied (for me definitely not in a war game). I am sure that most designers are willing to grant permission on using their mechanisms, especially if they are mentioned.

(Perfect place for a remark to David deJardins: Big Boss HAD the permission of the author from Aquire! --- It is the perfect example of how it should have been done!)

If I take Mutant Meeples into the world of books, I would place it in view of R.Robot in the area of „fan fiction“ – this term is clearly marked with taking a basic idea (the invention) and filling it and widen it with new ideas. Fan fiction, however, is always non-commercial. If it becomes commercial, you need the authorization of the publisher. Why should that be so different in the gaming world?!

I agree that there are many other games that share mechanisms and internally this is part of our discussion („copied of not?“, „how do deal with using a mechanism“). We will make a statement on that discussion soon. Maybe we find a place where this discussion can be also done here at BGG...

In our statement, we defined how SAZ would like to see these type of topics dealt with: asking for permission beforehand and naming of the original inventor.


It isn't very clear who "we" is. It sounds like you should have "An open letter regarding 'borrowed' mechanisms" and then have it signed by those people. I don't see why you are singling out this game in this case.

(Also your "fanfiction" analogy doesn't quite work, in my mind.)
 
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  • Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012 9:39 pm
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Jeffrey Allers
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As a member of the SAZ, while I agree that this is an important topic for game designers, I do not believe it is fair to single out one game at this time.

I hope that "we," as the SAZ, can instead work constructively to form some guidelines (which have already been in development, but are still not clear enough IMO) that can serve to educate designers and publishers, especially those new to the industry (which includes me).

I believe that most instances similar to Ted's can avoid controversy if the expectations are clearly communicated beforehand, as most designers (including Ted) have the best intentions and a desire to preserve their integrity.
 
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  • Edited Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:11 pm
  • Posted Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:10 pm
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David desJardins
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spielmaterial wrote:
What we did point out in our statement is that we (not me) see a problem in the way an intellectual property has been dealt with - which is our core asset as authors.

If you read our statement carefully, our opinion is that the core mechanism in Mutant Meeples is taken from R.Robots.


What is with this "we" and "us" thing? Who appointed you to speak for them? When did they vote to endorse your position? It sure seems like a personal jeremiad. I am doubtful there is anyone else who actually agrees with your position, and I don't think anyone is going to take your position seriously if you don't produce evidence that these other people actually exist.
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  • Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:55 am
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Ted Alspach
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I would request that we let this thread die. I now understand the intent of the post from SAZ, and while I would prefer that they had picked some other game to rally behind to make their point, it's too late for that, and I doubt they'll retract anything publicly posted at this point. I'm corresponding directly with Harald at this time.

Thanks to everyone who has sent me supportive geek mails and emails on this topic...it's very much appreciated.
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  • Posted Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:37 am
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