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What's your gateway game of choice? (PART 2!)

Jason Miceli


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Alright - I have an update for everyone (this is a continuation of part 1 of this blog-post: http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/6041/whats-your-gateway-ga...).

Played a bunch of games yesterday:
d10-1 7 Wonders (my first plays)
d10-2 Dominion
d10-3 Pandemic (my first plays)
d10-4 Battlestar Galactica
d10-5 The Resistance
d10-6 Buccaneer (my first plays)

7 Wonders was every bit as good as I hoped it would be - a fantastic game that supports larger crowds than average (up to 7 players for now, but soon the Cities expansion will allow for up to 8 in team play). I agree with Kevin (a commenter on a previous post of mine) - it's likely not the best gateway game, but it is a great game to introduce folks to after they've been somewhat roped into the world. It's was fairly easy to get used to, and very fun and strategic gameplay (a la Puerto Rico, Race For The Galaxy, etc.).

Dominion is always a crowd-pleaser, and I think I would still endorse it as a good starting point for new players. Perhaps it's on the tail end of acceptable for this purpose, but it is easy to teach the rules and there are never more than 10 cards out that you need to understand. Perhaps it comes down to a personality / group dynamic thing.

Pandemic was also every bit as good as I expected - it's like Forbidden Island on steroids, though I do not think I would introduce this to a new player - stick with FI for that. However, this is more fun to play than FI - it's got more choices, more intrigue, and more depth. The level of suspense is perhaps equal to FI... both excellent games I would highly recommend!

BSG requires no further explanation - I talk about that more than any other game in my blog. Don't use it as a gateway, plain and simple!

Interestingly, we've been using The Resistance to introduce new players to the scene, and it's worked incredibly well! My father and brother played it on Thanksgiving and really got into it - neither are into any kind of hobby gaming. What's even more interesting is if you're clever about how to do it, that could segue into pulling someone into BSG... eventually. You still need people who are definitely interested in longer gameplay and many rules to understand, but clearly The Resistance is the very heart of what makes BSG good.

Enter Buccaneer!! My friend brought this one over and we played several games - it's a very fun and simple game, and it plays very quick. I put it on par with FI - very fast and easy to get newcomers into, and enough fun and strategy for others to still enjoy. It would absolutely make a great gateway game!!

Gaming rules!!!
Jason
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Subscribe sub options Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:39 pm
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Sean Doubt
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One thing to note about 7 Wonders, it supports 7 out of the box (go figure whistle) and the Leaders expansion adds 1 more to make it 8 players. There is no team play option that I am aware of.

I totally agree about the Resistance being a good intro game. Playing it with family or people you know very well would be the best I think, as the lying spies would face an interesting challenge.

Gaming rules indeed. Cheers!
 
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  • Posted Sat Nov 26, 2011 4:44 pm
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Matt Downey
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Leaders does not add an 8th player, but an 8th wonder (and other things). It still only supports 7 players. 7 Wonders: Cities adds an 8th player and team play.

Good list of games you played yesterday!
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  • Posted Sat Nov 26, 2011 5:01 pm
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Dan Perkins
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Gateway was settlers. Not sure why it gets no love from you anymore.

San Juan is pretty good as well.
 
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  • Posted Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:52 pm
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Jason Miceli


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Settlers still gets lots of love from me - you just keep having babies that take up all your time, Dan!!
 
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  • Posted Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:16 pm
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Jason Miceli


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Also Dan, if you read part 1 of this blog-post you'll see we've explicitly discussed Settlers in this regard...

http://boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/6041/whats-your-gateway-ga...


 
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  • Edited Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:21 pm
  • Posted Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:18 pm
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Darren Nakamura
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7 Wonders is a favorite in my group, because it runs so quickly and supports so many people. I've sort of gotten tired of it though, because there is really very little player interaction. Aside from buying things from your neighbor (who has no choice but to sell it) and comparing combat prowess with your neighbors (which is also pretty passive), there is little interaction. Others have called it "multiplayer solitaire," which I don't think is too far off. It's good, but it's not as good as I originally thought it was.

Dominion, on the other hand, is still just as good as I originally judged it to be. I just played this last night, and I'm still impressed that the different combinations of decks can offer such drastically different strategies. I only wish it played more than four, since we usually have more than that.

It's no wonder that Pandemic and Forbidden Island are both similar to one another; they were both designed by the same person, after all. I personally prefer Pandemic, for exactly the reasons you mentioned, but if I want straight co-op, I'd take Ghost Stories or Flash Point over either of those, typically.

The Resistance is definitely a gateway to Battlestar Galactica. I have used it to that extent, and I hope to continue with it. Thing is, one of the great things about The Resistance is that it's so short, comparatively, so people who like it may still not like BSG, if only because BSG takes six times as long to play.
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  • Posted Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:05 pm
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Clyde Wright
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Just played Kingdom Builder, which is surely destined to be the new gateway game of choice (following Catan and Ticket to Ride). My personal favorite gateway is definitely The Resistance though! Tichu also works wonders amongst card players.
 
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  • Posted Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:07 pm
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Paul Owen
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Dexter345 wrote:
7 Wonders is a favorite in my group, because it runs so quickly and supports so many people. I've sort of gotten tired of it though, because there is really very little player interaction. Aside from buying things from your neighbor (who has no choice but to sell it) and comparing combat prowess with your neighbors (which is also pretty passive), there is little interaction. Others have called it "multiplayer solitaire," which I don't think is too far off. It's good, but it's not as good as I originally thought it was.


I think there's more interaction than you may realize. I've found that you really have to pay attention not just to the best card for yourself, but what cards you're handing to your opponent ... and indirectly, two or three opponents around the table.

The hardest thing for me to learn about this game (and it's true of Puerto Rico as well) is that your decisions shouldn't be based on what has the best absolute value to yourself as much as on what has the best relative value to yourself over your opponent. If I keep a six-point blue building but hand my opponent a green card that will enable him to complete a seven-point set, I've lost a point to that opponent. I'm better off burying that green card as a stage in my wonder, even if my opponent gets the six-point blue.

I'm still learning the nuances of 7 Wonders, and I think it's an underappreciated game (which is hard to imagine, considering how popular it is).
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:09 am
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Clyde Wright
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Paul, to me, you have proven Dexter's point. Yes, of course, you should pay attention to what you're giving your neighbors. The main issue I have with the game is that devolves into seven dudes sitting around a table in complete silence, trying to optimize their moves. That's incredibly lame for a board game. When I play games with people, I want to interact with them in meaningful ways, not sit at a table all playing the same game but never speaking with them. And even when you do speak to them, there's nothing interesting to say: "Oh, my four military is going to beat your three military! Whoo!" Dex has the right of it, the game grows old very quickly.
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 29, 2011 5:06 am
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Darren Nakamura
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pdowen3 wrote:
The hardest thing for me to learn about this game (and it's true of Puerto Rico as well) is that your decisions shouldn't be based on what has the best absolute value to yourself as much as on what has the best relative value to yourself over your opponent. If I keep a six-point blue building but hand my opponent a green card that will enable him to complete a seven-point set, I've lost a point to that opponent. I'm better off burying that green card as a stage in my wonder, even if my opponent gets the six-point blue.


I get what you're saying, but that's a pretty poor example. By burying the Science card, you are indeed denying the next person in line a set worth seven (eight or more, actually, depending on whether it's the first set or not), giving him a net gain over you of a couple of points, but by handing him the Culture card and building a stage of your Wonder gives him a net gain of six.

Still, I stand by the idea that there is very little player interaction. While any good player should be considering what he is handing off to the next player, I wouldn't call that player interaction. You're taking his cards into account, but he wouldn't have to be there for you to do that. Even when you bury something you know your neighbor would really like, there's no real satisfaction in it, because he doesn't know you did, unless you're the type to say, "Hah hah, I just buried the perfect card for you, neighbor." And even then, that doesn't sound very satisfying.

I'm not saying 7 Wonders is bad! I will still gladly play a round or two when it's requested. It's just not quite as good as I originally thought it to be.
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 29, 2011 7:44 am
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Matt Downey
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Dexter345 wrote:
Even when you bury something you know your neighbor would really like, there's no real satisfaction in it, because he doesn't know you did, unless you're the type to say, "Hah hah, I just buried the perfect card for you, neighbor." And even then, that doesn't sound very satisfying.


The joys of hate drafting are both many and subtle. Trash talking makes every game better, especially in 7 Wonders.

I don't think I've ever played a game of it that could be described as anything but raucous. Clyde, you need to stop playing it with boring people.
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:36 am
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Jason Miceli


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I know the upcoming expansion for 7 Wonders, the Cities expansion, is supposed to add a lot more player interaction. I have no idea how this will be accomplished or how successful it will be, but at least it's good news in concept.

Jason
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  • Posted Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:40 pm
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Clyde Wright
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downeymb wrote:
Dexter345 wrote:
Even when you bury something you know your neighbor would really like, there's no real satisfaction in it, because he doesn't know you did, unless you're the type to say, "Hah hah, I just buried the perfect card for you, neighbor." And even then, that doesn't sound very satisfying.


The joys of hate drafting are both many and subtle. Trash talking makes every game better, especially in 7 Wonders.

I don't think I've ever played a game of it that could be described as anything but raucous. Clyde, you need to stop playing it with boring people.
Matt, let's play sometime! You can show me the joys of 7W trash talk, but only if you will play with me my ultimate trash talking game, Modern Art.
 
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  • Posted Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:15 pm
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Jess McNeil
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California
Long Shot is also a great gateway game. Super fast and fun game play that most non-gamers can understand, and really social for people who don't like a quiet game table. I take it to parties and it's always a hit.
 
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  • Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:49 am
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Paul Owen
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Dexter345 wrote:
I stand by the idea that there is very little player interaction. While any good player should be considering what he is handing off to the next player, I wouldn't call that player interaction. You're taking his cards into account, but he wouldn't have to be there for you to do that. Even when you bury something you know your neighbor would really like, there's no real satisfaction in it, because he doesn't know you did, unless you're the type to say, "Hah hah, I just buried the perfect card for you, neighbor." And even then, that doesn't sound very satisfying.


I see your point. I think I have a low threshhold of "player interaction." If I'm paying attention to my neighbor's board, I'm thinking that's "interactive."

I guess I'm pretty easy to please.
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  • Posted Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:20 am
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Matt Downey
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Clyde, I'll play some 7W with you. I've never gotten to Modern Art, but I'll gladly trash talk my way through a game I don't know.
 
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  • Posted Fri Dec 2, 2011 2:03 pm
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