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Links: Free Rings, Shifting Origins, Revolutionary Strategy & Wood-for-Sheep on U.S. TV

Posted by W. Eric Martin
28 Jan 2012
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• Alderac Entertainment Group has posted a free, downloadable version of its Legend of the Five Rings dubbed the "Kolat" edition. Says AEG's Todd Rowland, "In the attached PDF flyer, you can learn all about Legend of the Five Rings, and find links to the rulebook, and NINE fully playable printable decks, one for each Clan. And these are not cheap beginner decks, these have rares and were designed to hold their own at tournaments!" Well, okay, but "rares" in a PDF version of a game don't have the same cachet as rares on paper.

• Matt Morgan at MTV Geek has a long interview with Kathleen Campisano and Ellen Heaney Mizer from Barnes & Noble about how the largest retail bookseller in the U.S. started carrying board games and how that segment has grown over the years. Interesting to discover that Fantasy Flight's Civilization had a quick sellthrough. I'm still baffled that B&N stocks Agricola, given its $75 price tag – but clearly the chain thinks the buyers are there.

• Asmodee has posted a playful article titled "Making A Game: From Prototype to Project", which it promises is the first in a series showing how a game moves along precisely that path.

• Responding to complaints by attendees and attendee wannabes, Origins Game Fair has moved the dates for its 2013 show from May 29-June 2 to June 12-16, according to ICv2, with the idea being that the new dates should place the show after the end of most school years. The 2012 show, however, is still being held from May 29 to June 2, and the dates for 2014 (now June 11-15) and 2015 (June 3-7) are not locked in place.

• Designer Philip duBarry has published a strategy guide for his board game Revolution! on the Steve Jackson Games website.

• Purple Pawn's Sam Mercer has a long interview with Kickstarter co-founder Yancey Strickler.

• The French publication Jeux sur un Plateau has ceased publication, although the website is still up-to-date and apparently not affected the magazine going away.

• Santiago de Cuba is now on the online game site Yucata.de on a beta basis.

• A Philadelphia, Pennsylvania TV station featured Dominion, Carcassonne and The Settlers of Catan on a brief parenting segment in early January 2012. In less than two minutes, reporter David Murphy bangs out descriptions of all three games and makes them sound a lot less "hey, gosh, isn't this keen" than the news anchor who opened the segment.

• A recent episode of the U.S. television show The Big Bang Theory featured many wood-for-sheep jokes, then just wood jokes, then more wood jokes with an erection kicker. Why does any sitcom still use a laugh track? Me, I get angry listening to the push-button guffaws. (Clarification of terms used below.) (HT: Chris Kovac)

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Subscribe sub options Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:48 pm
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Ah. I remember why I hate this show. Thanks.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:53 pm
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Not to be pedantic, but no modern TV show uses a "laugh track" or "push button" laughter. The show is filmed in front of a live studio audience, and the audience reaction is recorded as part of the production.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:59 pm
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SommerMatt wrote:
Not to be pedantic, but no modern TV show uses a "laugh track" or "push button" laughter. The show is filmed in front of a live studio audience, and the audience reaction is recorded as part of the production.

With "sweetening" added in post-production to goose the laughter, the "awwwwww"s, and whatever other sounds might be deemed necessary. I don't see a fundamental difference in a laugh track and sweetened studio noise.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:13 pm
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Sheldon rocks !
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:14 pm
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W Eric Martin wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:
Not to be pedantic, but no modern TV show uses a "laugh track" or "push button" laughter. The show is filmed in front of a live studio audience, and the audience reaction is recorded as part of the production.

With "sweetening" added in post-production to goose the laughter, the "awwwwww"s, and whatever other sounds might be deemed necessary. I don't see a fundamental difference in a laugh track and sweetened studio noise.

Not true at least in the case of Big Bang theory. I attended a taping of the show, and the actual audience reaction is what was used. People are way into the show, so the "awwwww"s and all that actually happen.
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  • Edited Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:32 pm
  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:28 pm
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chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
W Eric Martin wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:
Not to be pedantic, but no modern TV show uses a "laugh track" or "push button" laughter. The show is filmed in front of a live studio audience, and the audience reaction is recorded as part of the production.

With "sweetening" added in post-production to goose the laughter, the "awwwwww"s, and whatever other sounds might be deemed necessary. I don't see a fundamental difference in a laugh track and sweetened studio noise.

Not true at least in the case of Big Bang theory. I attended a taping of the show, and the actual audience reaction is what was used.


You can also see that this is true if you watch the outtakes.

I suggest a retraction be made or the content of the OP be edited.

Although, it is unlikely that anything bad can come out an of untruthful statement about a TV show, you are representing the BGG community.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:32 pm
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Kudos to Origins for hearing the voice of the people!
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:12 pm
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kingjames01 wrote:
chaddyboy_2000 wrote:
W Eric Martin wrote:
SommerMatt wrote:
Not to be pedantic, but no modern TV show uses a "laugh track" or "push button" laughter. The show is filmed in front of a live studio audience, and the audience reaction is recorded as part of the production.

With "sweetening" added in post-production to goose the laughter, the "awwwwww"s, and whatever other sounds might be deemed necessary. I don't see a fundamental difference in a laugh track and sweetened studio noise.

Not true at least in the case of Big Bang theory. I attended a taping of the show, and the actual audience reaction is what was used.


You can also see that this is true if you watch the outtakes.

I suggest a retraction be made or the content of the OP be edited.

Although, it is unlikely that anything bad can come out an of untruthful statement about a TV show, you are representing the BGG community.


Wow, nerd rage over whether or not a show about nerds uses a laugh track. Will wonders never cease? shake

In any regard, I'm in agreement with Eric that laugh tracks in sitcoms, whether canned or taped, are annoying and should have been done away with long ago.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:24 pm
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Sobek was just added to Yucata too in Beta form!


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  • Edited Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:25 pm
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maelic001 wrote:

Wow, nerd rage over whether or not a show about nerds uses a laugh track. Will wonders never cease? shake

In any regard, I'm in agreement with Eric that laugh tracks in sitcoms, whether canned or taped, are annoying and should have been done away with long ago.


Apparently correcting an erroneous statement now qualifies as "nerd rage."

Out of curiosity -- when you watch a comedian doing a stand-up special, do you consider the laughs heard to be a "laugh track"?

If you don't like TBBT, or if you don't like shows that are taped in front of a live audience, more power to you.

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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:46 pm
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Who doesn't like being told when to laugh?
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:52 pm
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soiledshortz wrote:
Who doesn't like being told when to laugh?


I definitely need some guidelines to know what to do, when to laugh, etc. Same reason I base all my game buying decisions on the BGG top 10 lists!

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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:56 pm
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maelic001 wrote:

Wow, nerd rage over whether or not a show about nerds uses a laugh track. Will wonders never cease? shake


Wait... what? I don't understand. Who's nerd raging? I don't understand what you're trying to say.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. As long as the opinion is appropriate then feel free to share it.

However, when you represent a community and you make a statement that you pass off as a fact, and that fact is not true, then that's a completely different thing.

In the OP in regards to 'canned laughter', we see:

Implied 'Fact': The Big Bang Theory uses a pre-recorded studio responses.

Opinion: The use of laugh tracks is outdated. Their use in a modern sitcom makes me angry.

It doesn't matter if you agree with the second part, but the first is incorrect. It should be retracted or edited out.

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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:04 pm
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From the outtakes I've seen of The Big Bang Theory, it seems like the audience is sitting on the edge of their seat, waiting to laugh. There have been times that the cast is taken off guard because something mundane is said, and some people guffaw loudly. I used to think it was a laugh track, which annoyed me, but now I know it's real people, for the most part, who might be a bit too exuberant with their reactions. I think it's akin to people attending a stand up comedian. Sometimes the jokes aren't really funny, but people are in the mindset that everything should be funny, so they laugh. It's almost a placebo affect, the environment adds to people's enjoyment of what they are watching.

I enjoy watching the show, but I try to tune out the accompanied laughter from the audience. Sometimes it seems that they laugh before the punch line.
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  • Edited Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:25 pm
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eekamouse wrote:
Ah. I remember why I hate this show. Thanks.


I'm glad you were the first to comment. This show infuriates me so much. Everything is so forced and hyperbolized.... Just can't stand it.
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:41 pm
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I honestly do not care who laughs when and who does not. Granted, laughter is infectious. But in general...
...I laugh when I think something is funny.
I laughed when the small dinosaurs ripped someone apart who deemed them cute, in Jurassic Park II. Loudly, in the middle of the theatre.
Unfortunately, I cannot think of any other instances where I laughed, loudly, in cinema, probably deemed inappropriate by other visitors. Honestly, there are many.
There are also many situations where other people laugh and I do not. Because I find it stupid, or below my standard, to laugh at a really obvious or otherwise stupid joke.

I can choose when to laugh. I do not need to be coerced. And I certainly let noone tell me when to laugh.

So the tracks of other people laughing do not bother me at all.

I simply watch the show because I deem it really fitting and funny.

And if it is not the content that you do not like...
...why can't you?
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  • Posted Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:43 pm
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J J
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Quote:

• A recent episode of the U.S. television show The Big Bang Theory featured many wood-for-sheep jokes, then just wood jokes, then more wood jokes with an erection kicker. Why does any sitcom still use a laugh track? Me, I get angry listening to the push-button guffaws. (HT: Chris Kovac)


The producers have been quite adamant about this issue, and addressed it several times, including with Chuck Lorre's famous comment card right at the end:

http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4189/cqpyw.jpg

Big Bang doesn't use a laugh track. There have been plenty of audience members posting on internet fora as well (not just in this thread).

But do tell, did you find the JOKES funny?
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  • Edited Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:55 pm
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It is unfortunate that the (erroneous) assertion that BBT has a laugh track has displaced any discussion about how awesome it is that one of These Games Of Ours is actually featured on a major television show. Admittedly, it is a show about people who would (and do) find enjoyment in such geeky pursuits.

(and it is not the first time a board game from the BGG database that has appeared on the show)
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  • Edited Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:21 am
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14 year old boy humor.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:24 am
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Al Johnson wrote:
14 year old boy humor.


Yeah? Our group of 30-somethings make the jokes endlessly (although the erection one hadn't occurred to us).

Horses for courses, as with all forms of taste.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:58 am
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SommerMatt wrote:
Not to be pedantic, but no modern TV show uses a "laugh track" or "push button" laughter. The show is filmed in front of a live studio audience, and the audience reaction is recorded as part of the production.


You probably have better information than I do but I can tell you that the use of an absolute such as
Quote:
...no modern TV show uses...
will always be proven wrong. All it takes is one outlier.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:12 am
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ANNNNNYWAY...

I'm not suprised the Civilization sold through quickly at B&N. It's based on a very popular computer game, and the Xmas buying public will buy what is familiar, sight unseen, with little to no knowledge of what they are buying.

Plus, no one at B&N is going to have the ability (or inclination) to warn them about the heaviness of the game and that it *may* not be what they are looking for.

I expect some of these purchases lead to buyer's remorse.

Not knocking the game - it's a great game - if that is the kind of game you are looking for. And most casual shoppers are not looking for that kind of game.
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  • Edited Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:29 am
  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:26 am
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That joke is so over rated and old, and I feel that many of the non-Geek crowd will actually GET it. So yeah, can we please stop making the wood for sheep jokes?
 
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:34 am
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bryanwinter wrote:
ANNNNNYWAY...

I'm not suprised the Civilization sold through quickly at B&N. It's based on a very popular computer game, and the Xmas buying public will buy what is familiar, sight unseen, with little to no knowledge of what they are buying.

Plus, no one at B&N is going to have the ability (or inclination) to warn them about the heaviness of the game and that it *may* not be what they are looking for.

I expect some of these purchases lead to buyer's remorse.

Not knocking the game - it's a great game - if that is the kind of game you are looking for. And most casual shoppers are not looking for that kind of game.


Probably they still have less remorse than the people who bought the older Sid Meier's Civ at B&N
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:26 am
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lfisher wrote:
Probably they still have less remorse than the people who bought the older Sid Meier's Civ at B&N


Indeed!
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:47 am
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futurescaper wrote:
(and it is not the first time a board game from the BGG database that has appeared on the show)

But it was the first time that a decent game appeared.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:00 am
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Multi-cam or "3 camera" shows, ie: cheers, friends, Big Bang or any half-hour comedy taped entirely on a sound stage, shoot in front of a live audience.

Single camera comedies (30 Rock, The Office, etc.) are shot without a live audience, sometimes in a studio, sometimes on location.

The process for each is totally different - multi-cams are like short plays and single cams are like short movies. They look different, they sound different, the process is different, they're just different.

I've been at several tapings of Big Bang - it's not a laugh track. The audience is packed with fans of the show, and everyone's excited to be there and to be part of the process. There is a palpable energy in a room with 200 people focused on a live taping, that differs from one or two people sitting in front of their TV. If you've ever been to the movies on opening night for something everyone's been waiting months to see - every Tues is like that at Stage 24 on the Warner Bros lot. (or is it 25? I can't remember.)

At one point someone who doesn't like Big Bang had a video circulating online in which they removed the laughs from the soundtrack to "prove" that the show wasn't funny. I found this just stupid, since when it's being shot, the actors sometimes have to pause for the laughs to die down in order to be heard. This is probably the main difference between a multi-cam and a single cam. If you take the audience reaction out of a multi-cam and leave the actors holding for laughs - OF COURSE it's going to be horrible and awkward and unfunny. That's not what multi-cams are about. Multi-cams have their roots in theater. Single cams in movies.

Interestingly, there was one season of M.A.S.H. where they added a laugh track, which I'm guessing was universally hated, since M.A.S.H. was a single cam. I agree that laugh tracks are horrible, especially on a single cam, where there is obviously no studio audience. (someone pointed out that I was mistaken about the M.A.S.H. thing..)

As for Big Bang adding "sweetening" in post - maybe, but I doubt it. I've yet to be at a Big Bang taping where any sweetening would be necessary. If a joke or a bit isn't working on the night, they will more likely have the writers huddle for five to ten minutes and come up with something funnier, and I've yet to see them fail to do so. Many of my favorite moments were written this way. It's one of the cool things about shooting in front of a live audience. The audience really is a part of the process.

Single cams are more in vogue these days, but Big Bang is one of the few left that shares its roots with a style of sitcom that people have enjoyed since The Honeymooners and the Dick Van Dyke show. I think that because theater in general was more accessible in those days and as online social networking becomes the norm, the tradition of live theater and studio audiences seems antiquated to many people now.

I have multi-cams that I like (big bang) and single cams that I like (30 Rock.) I also tivo Frasier on the Women's Entertainment network, although I am a man. I'm not sure what that says about me, but I'll tell you this - the laughter on Frasier... not canned.
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  • Edited Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:27 pm
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Man, they must mike up each audience member, because that sure as hell sounds canned. No wonder everyone thinks it.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:43 am
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I apologize to the cast and crew of The Big Bang Theory, co-executive producer Chuck Lorre, fans of TBBT, friends and loved ones of fans of TBBT, those who tuned into TBBT once expecting a science-based documentary, anyone who has ever watched a television show, those whose writings were denounced as "nerd rage", those otherwise offended by the term "nerd rage", those who use the term "nerd rage" only in an ironic sense because they are also nerds and rage a bit on their own on occasion, readers of BGG News, the gaming community at large, and my mother for the specific use of the phrase "laugh track", which bears an implication (but not an outright claim) of artificially generated laughter instead of the more general term "soundtrack of laughter", which can apply toward both artificially generated laughter and laughter produced by living humans in an artificial environment (such as a television studio) and which in either case is used to encourage the generation of like-minded responses from viewers at home in a manner not unlike pushing a button to produce guffaws (or other sounds of an appropriate nature).
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:44 am
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Trent Hamm
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The Big Bang Theory capitalizes on making fun of "nerds." Even worse, it also serves to further ostracize people on the autism spectrum from mainstream society. This show is basically "blackface" for mild autism and "nerdiness." Beyond that, it still relies on the hackneyed humor of yesteryear, gussied up with some modern references. There was more cutting edge humor on television when Sid Caesar was on in the early 1950s. It's just a depressing example of how television is still relying on stereotypes and recycled humor made "fresh" by modern references, just so soulless producers can turn a quick buck.

(There, that should get some discussion started.)
  • Edited Sun Jan 29, 2012 3:56 am
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trenttsd wrote:
The Big Bang Theory capitalizes on making fun of "nerds." Even worse, it also serves to further ostracize people on the autism spectrum from mainstream society. This show is basically "blackface" for mild autism and "nerdiness." Beyond that, it still relies on the hackneyed humor of yesteryear, gussied up with some modern references. There was more cutting edge humor on television when Sid Caesar was on in the early 1950s. It's just a depressing example of how television is still relying on stereotypes and recycled humor made "fresh" by modern references, just so soulless producers can turn a quick buck.

(There, that should get some discussion started.)


Everyone's entitled to their opinion. I agree that Sid Caesar was great.
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Huge thumbs up for the video!
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I refuse to add to the controversy other than saying in a world where people think that Seinfeld was actually funny, Nic Cage can act, and Stanley Kubrick was talented and not a megalomaniac self-serving dumb-a$$ Hack who destroyed great novels, that insulting Big Bang Theory only proves that the world as we know is doomed to mediocrity.
Geek Chic for the win biatches
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  • Edited Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:49 am
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:39 am
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chris1nd wrote:
Kudos to Origins for hearing the voice of the people!

Eh... sounds like they sorta heard the voice of the people. Where I'm from, that's during the last couple weeks of the school year -- kind of an important time. And from what I heard, their first reaction was something like "Well, if you folks don't like it, too bad."

I'm glad they reacted eventually, but only after a huge outcry, and not enough IMO. But I guess it's something.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:36 am
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Laugh tracks are awesome. Watch this and tell me it's not way more entertaining than the original scene:





Admit it, you laughed, or at least smiled a little bit.
That's the power of a laugh track!
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  • Edited Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:30 am
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TheSaint08D wrote:
I refuse to add to the controversy other than saying in a world where people think that Seinfeld was actually funny, Nic Cage can act, and Stanley Kubrick was talented and not a megalomaniac self-serving dumb-a$$ Hack who destroyed great novels, that insulting Big Bang Theory only proves that the world as we know is doomed to mediocrity.
Geek Chic for the win biatches




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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:45 am
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TV sucks. We are so smart, playing games and all, we don't need it or watch it. It's like playing Monopoly (which, as we all know, is for stupid people).
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:50 am
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I still can't figure out what B&N's strategy is, and after reading that interview, it's good to see they don't quite know what their strategy is, either. I know this hobby isn't the size of, say, book-reading, but come on, they couldn't bring on one consultant to say, "here's some good gateway games which won't scare your customers, here's a price point which won't scare gamers too much, and here's the level of service you're going to need to sell this stuff"?

I mean look at the normal progression of things....

FLGS: Higher prices, but better, more immediate service, don't have to pay extra for/need to reach a certain price point for free shipping, knowledgeable staff, and (hopefully) a place to play a game or 3.

OGS: Lower prices, but shipping to deal with and if you don't know what you want, you're going to have a tougher time picking out the right purchase.

B&N: Higher prices than most any store, a selection that's large enough to be daunting, not large enough to serve gamers too well, staff who, as far as I've seen, isn't knowledgeable about the products (unless one happens to game on their own time, the times I've been there and seen people looking at the games section, completely lost, I've not once seen someone walk up and ask if they can help, like I see them do for every other section of the store), and no real room to play. It's like they took all the worst aspects of local and online stores. shake

(side-note, I thought they were rounding a corner a few months back, when a manager at the B&N said he was interested in stopping by our game group, checking out what this is really all about, and if all looked good, trying to start having game nights at the B&N with our help....and then the manager never showed up and never saw a single thing about a game night, so either he was overruled on that matter or he hit the ceiling of his care-meter and gave up)
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:54 am
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I've never watched an episode of Big Bang before, and after that clip, I never will, just godawful. What really depresses me is knowing that this show beat the snot out of Community in ratings, to the point of it being pulled midseason. Here's a clip from the Dungeon's & Dragons episode, it's an example of how a "geek" hobby can be portrayed almost lovingly, without just seizing on the lowest dangling fruit and smashing it against the unyielding rock of stereotype.

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I've never really watched any Big Bang Theory, as it never looked interesting. I liked the D&D episode of Community, but not enough to watch any more of that show.

I enjoy Modern Family and How I Met Your Mother. Frasier is my all time favorite sit come, and I always wished they had done another series after Frasier, but with him in private practice in Chicago.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:00 am
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+1 for Modern Family
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:26 am
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Community is everything that BBT isn't: warm, intelligent, funny and well written. I really can't understand the appeal of BBT to Geeks when all it seems to do is make fun of them for cheap laughs. Some gaming friends of mine watch BBT and we have had heated discussions about this very topic. Suffice to say that there are now 2 topics of conversation that are banned at the gaming table, Big Bang Theory and Religion.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:03 am
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I watched the first three seasons of Big Bang. And I liked it a lot.

As a gamer these jokes on settlers are forced and nothing new.

BTW it is beyond me why they would play a mainstream game with no theme and is high on luck instead of highly themed game with lots of luck or a non luck game.

Oh yes other games don't have the old jokes in it.

For me this is easily one of the lows of the show.

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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:34 pm
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Regarding the L5R PDF release - one of the PDFs that were put up by AEG is the full set of the cards, in addition to the preconstructed "decks"

Wonderful for War of Honor owners.

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I love the Big Bang Theory. I don't care that it uses a laugh track.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:58 pm
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KrisVerbeeck wrote:
I watched the first three seasons of Big Bang. And I liked it a lot.

As a gamer these jokes on settlers are forced and nothing new.

I agree, but they weren't aimed at us really.

Quote:

BTW it is beyond me why they would play a mainstream game with no theme and is high on luck instead of highly themed game with lots of luck or a non luck game.


Because they needed a game that a mainstream audience would recognise.

Quote:

Oh yes other games don't have the old jokes in it.


This as well.
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I used to work at Borders before they went belly up. I ordered in a good selection of board games and hosted a game night for people to try before they buy. To bad it didn't last.
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bryanwinter wrote:
ANNNNNYWAY...

I'm not suprised the Civilization sold through quickly at B&N. It's based on a very popular computer game, and the Xmas buying public will buy what is familiar, sight unseen, with little to no knowledge of what they are buying.

Plus, no one at B&N is going to have the ability (or inclination) to warn them about the heaviness of the game and that it *may* not be what they are looking for.

I expect some of these purchases lead to buyer's remorse.

Not knocking the game - it's a great game - if that is the kind of game you are looking for. And most casual shoppers are not looking for that kind of game.


Oh man, I hope you are right! I'll be watching ebay like a hawk!ninja
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Al Johnson wrote:
14 year old boy humor.


Yeah? Our group of 30-somethings make the jokes endlessly (although the erection one hadn't occurred to us).

Horses for courses, as with all forms of taste.


If the shoe fits...
 
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trenttsd wrote:
The Big Bang Theory capitalizes on making fun of "nerds." Even worse, it also serves to further ostracize people on the autism spectrum from mainstream society. This show is basically "blackface" for mild autism and "nerdiness."


I remember hearing this same argument when Napoleon Dynamite came out, but I have always disagreed with it. I think the fans of this show keep watching because the characters are lovable. They like the nerds on the show because even non-geeks see a bit of themselves/loved ones/friends in the characters. The viewers aren't making fun of the characters, they are rooting for them. I agree that the show doesn't have "cutting edge" humor, but for some, it provides a good time. Everyone is a little "weird" and people enjoy laughing at an inflated version of that geekiness in themselves.
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KrisVerbeeck wrote:


BTW it is beyond me why they would play a mainstream game with no theme and is high on luck instead of highly themed game with lots of luck or a non luck game.


It is totally out of charachter. Sheldon and friends would never play games like Catan. They would play Race for the Galaxy or Star Trek: Fleet Captains or something like that. Especially because they all are big SF fans. But I guess MayFair paid a lot for advertising.
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:17 pm
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SommerMatt wrote:
maelic001 wrote:

Wow, nerd rage over whether or not a show about nerds uses a laugh track. Will wonders never cease? shake

In any regard, I'm in agreement with Eric that laugh tracks in sitcoms, whether canned or taped, are annoying and should have been done away with long ago.


Apparently correcting an erroneous statement now qualifies as "nerd rage."

Out of curiosity -- when you watch a comedian doing a stand-up special, do you consider the laughs heard to be a "laugh track"?

If you don't like TBBT, or if you don't like shows that are taped in front of a live audience, more power to you.



I advise everyone to watch "Sports Night".
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  • Posted Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:53 pm
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FoggyPlanet wrote:
trenttsd wrote:
The Big Bang Theory capitalizes on making fun of "nerds." Even worse, it also serves to further ostracize people on the autism spectrum from mainstream society. This show is basically "blackface" for mild autism and "nerdiness."


I remember hearing this same argument when Napoleon Dynamite came out, but I have always disagreed with it. I think the fans of this show keep watching because the characters are lovable. They like the nerds on the show because even non-geeks see a bit of themselves/loved ones/friends in the characters. The viewers aren't making fun of the characters, they are rooting for them. I agree that the show doesn't have "cutting edge" humor, but for some, it provides a good time. Everyone is a little "weird" and people enjoy laughing at an inflated version of that geekiness in themselves.


Oh I agree it tends to have different humour from most American shows - it is why I watch it and not them. I imagine it could also be the reason so many people here decrying it are Americans - it isn't what they normally find funny (thinking 30 Rock, Tracey Ullman, The Office, 3 and a Half Men, Modern Family here).

Like I said - horses for courses. Just coz it appeals to me doesn't mean anyone else will (or should) care for it, just like my thinking that most US "comedy" is banal garbage doesn't mean it will be any less popular. It's all subjective.
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  • Edited Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:55 am
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mado78 wrote:
It is totally out of charachter. Sheldon and friends would never play games like Catan.

It's a huge step up from what they have been shown playing before: Talisman and Jenga. And at least they seemed to be actually playing the game by the rules this time.
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JVKhoury wrote:
I've never watched an episode of Big Bang before, and after that clip, I never will, just godawful. What really depresses me is knowing that this show beat the snot out of Community in ratings, to the point of it being pulled midseason. Here's a clip from the Dungeon's & Dragons episode, it's an example of how a "geek" hobby can be portrayed almost lovingly, without just seizing on the lowest dangling fruit and smashing it against the unyielding rock of stereotype.



That is a great episode. I don't watch it that much but that was brilliant.
You should also check out the 2 paintball episodes.
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  • Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:32 am
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Regardless of laugh track... Does anyone honestly think that Hollywood wouldn't use "plants" in the audience? It's been done before... at least since the days of Vaudeville and every magician and psychic known to man.
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  • Posted Mon Jan 30, 2012 10:10 am
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A while back Radiolab did an awesome episode on the effectiveness of laugh tracks and discusses professional laughers, people who are actually paid to sit in the audience and laugh.

http://www.radiolab.org/2008/feb/25/
(It's long. download it for your next car trip )

Regardless, the OP stated it uses a laugh track, which I read as just a general term for laughter in a sitcom whether it's by live audience, canned, or a mixture of the two. Some people are really passionate about them.

I find them awkward and distracting. Having said that, BBT must be doing something right because you tell someone BBT has a laugh track and they must go off to their TV to verify.
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  • Edited Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:33 pm
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Well, okay, but "rares" in a PDF version of a game don't have the same cachet as rares on paper.


Well sure, but the point is most of the time when a "learn to play" or freebie deck is given away, it's pretty much just commons and thus very non-competitive. These are fully decked out. Now will a newbie necessarily be able to seize first place with it? Probably not, but that's more due to experience than the tools they have at their disposal with these.
 
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Korova wrote:
...BBT must be doing something right because you tell someone BBT has a laugh track and they must go off to their TV to verify.


This happened to me a few months ago. I've wanted the show for some time. I heard a discussion about the laugh track and I thought to myself, "What are they talking about? There's no laugh track.". I watched an episode the next day and the laugh track was as clear as day, I just hadn't been consciously aware of it, which I found very odd. Of course, I hear it all the time now and it gets on my nerves. shake
 
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Well, I'm a big fan of Big Bang and found this episode (like most) to be quite funny. Seems to be a lot of anti-Big Bang sentiment on BGG lately, so I just had to put my $0.02 in on their behalf.

Also, STUNNED to see that the Origins folks have listened to the people!!! Good news, indeed! Too bad about this year's show, though. It will be interesting to see how attendance IS affected this year...
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JVKhoury wrote:
I've never watched an episode of Big Bang before, and after that clip, I never will, just godawful. What really depresses me is knowing that this show beat the snot out of Community in ratings, to the point of it being pulled midseason. It's an example of how a "geek" hobby can be portrayed almost lovingly, without just seizing on the lowest dangling fruit and smashing it against the unyielding rock of stereotype.


Community has been doing great on Hulu. I've watched all the episodes after seeing the D&D one, and have been very pleased with the overall direction of the show. Danny Pudi (Abed) is simply amazing. I won't comment on BBT because I've only ever seen one episode, but I can say that Community is well worth the watch (especially for the paintball episodes and the D&D episode, all deliciously campy).
 
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GSReis wrote:
mado78 wrote:
It is totally out of charachter. Sheldon and friends would never play games like Catan.

It's a huge step up from what they have been shown playing before: Talisman and Jenga. And at least they seemed to be actually playing the game by the rules this time.


Well, they're playing with three people not four. Isn't the Catan board supposed to be smaller with three?
 
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No, the Catan board is the same with 3 or 4. It grows with 5 or 6.

Speaking as someone who works in the live entertainment industry, the reason they use the live studio audience is not to tell the home viewers when to laugh. Indeed, they don't have signs that say 'laugh' or anything like that at live tapings. Instead, they use the audience reaction to help tell them how they're doing.

Ask any professional actor or musician; there's a big difference in how you perform in front of an audience versus just a camera. The audience feedback is a vital part of the process, and many aspects, from the performances to the editing, feed off of the audience reaction. They don't want an artificial reaction, they want a natural reaction, because if the audience isn't laughing, they're not doing a good job.

So make your own choices about whether BBT is a good show or bad, whether it embraces or alienates the geek culture, whatever. But as another pointed out, filming before a live audience is a key part of the process, and acting like modern studio comedies are somehow bad because of the laughter is merely showing a lack of objectivity.
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  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:28 am
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Blackfaer wrote:
the reason they use the live studio audience is not to tell the home viewers when to laugh. Indeed, they don't have signs that say 'laugh' or anything like that at live tapings. Instead, they use the audience reaction to help tell them how they're doing.


I'm not sure I buy this. Do they really need to rely on the audience reaction as a crutch to tell them how they're doing? What about all of the classic comedies that seem to do fine on their own? No laugh track in Monty Python's The Holy Grail. Or what about, for example, TV animated shows, like the Simpsons in their glory days?

It might be a nice perk to see what the audience reaction is. (Isn't it pretty much final by then anyway though? Or would they really re-do an episode and tape it all over again if there was a lackluster response). My suspicion is it's more to help ratings than anything else. People hear a lot of laughter and it gets them more in the mood to laugh and to think "oh, this must be funny".
 
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  • Edited Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:32 pm
  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:32 pm
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
Blackfaer wrote:
the reason they use the live studio audience is not to tell the home viewers when to laugh. Indeed, they don't have signs that say 'laugh' or anything like that at live tapings. Instead, they use the audience reaction to help tell them how they're doing.


I'm not sure I buy this. Do they really need to rely on the audience reaction as a crutch to tell them how they're doing? What about all of the classic comedies that seem to do fine on their own? No laugh track in Monty Python's The Holy Grail. Or what about, for example, TV animated shows, like the Simpsons in their glory days?

It might be a nice perk to see what the audience reaction is. (Isn't it pretty much final by then anyway though? Or would they really re-do an episode and tape it all over again if there was a lackluster response). My suspicion is it's more to help ratings than anything else. People hear a lot of laughter and it gets them more in the mood to laugh and to think "oh, this must be funny".


Shows taped in front of a studio audience aren't "final." As I mentioned in my earlier post, if a joke doesn't land well on the night (at least for Big Bang) the writers will huddle for five to ten minutes and come up with a re-write on the spot. But even before re-writes, the laughter informs the actors as the show plays out, just like a play. Yes, there is rehearsal throughout the week, but you never really know how it will all go down until tape night. Again, as I mentioned earlier, it's just a different beast than single-cam or animated comedies. I don't see the form as better or worse, just different.
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  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:56 pm
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W Eric Martin wrote:
I apologize to the cast and crew of The Big Bang Theory, co-executive producer Chuck Lorre, fans of TBBT, friends and loved ones of fans of TBBT, those who tuned into TBBT once expecting a science-based documentary, anyone who has ever watched a television show, those whose writings were denounced as "nerd rage", those otherwise offended by the term "nerd rage", those who use the term "nerd rage" only in an ironic sense because they are also nerds and rage a bit on their own on occasion, readers of BGG News, the gaming community at large, and my mother for the specific use of the phrase "laugh track", which bears an implication (but not an outright claim) of artificially generated laughter instead of the more general term "soundtrack of laughter", which can apply toward both artificially generated laughter and laughter produced by living humans in an artificial environment (such as a television studio) and which in either case is used to encourage the generation of like-minded responses from viewers at home in a manner not unlike pushing a button to produce guffaws (or other sounds of an appropriate nature).



[Queue laugh track]
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  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 6:48 pm
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Mr_Bickman wrote:

Interestingly, there was one season of M.A.S.H. where they added a laugh track, which I'm guessing was universally hated, since M.A.S.H. was a single cam. I agree that laugh tracks are horrible, especially on a single cam, where there is obviously no studio audience.


Just to correct/point out, *every* one of the 11 seasons of M*A*S*H had a laugh track. Some specific episodes didn't use them, particularly in the last few seasons in episodes that were drama-centric, but as one that has seen every episode of the series at least 20 times I can tell you for a fact it was indeed used through the entire series.

Ignoring the Nerd Rage and BBT discussion on purpose, but there are a lot of people on BGG that really need a tall cool glass of Get The Frak Over It.
 
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  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:21 pm
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midnightmadness wrote:
Mr_Bickman wrote:

Interestingly, there was one season of M.A.S.H. where they added a laugh track, which I'm guessing was universally hated, since M.A.S.H. was a single cam. I agree that laugh tracks are horrible, especially on a single cam, where there is obviously no studio audience.


Just to correct/point out, *every* one of the 11 seasons of M*A*S*H had a laugh track. Some specific episodes didn't use them, particularly in the last few seasons in episodes that were drama-centric, but as one that has seen every episode of the series at least 20 times I can tell you for a fact it was indeed used through the entire series.

Ignoring the Nerd Rage and BBT discussion on purpose, but there are a lot of people on BGG that really need a tall cool glass of Get The Frak Over It.


Whoops, thanks for correcting me on that. So was M.A.S.H. filmed in front of a live audience? I haven't watched in years, though I did love it. For the record, I still stand by my thoughts about Big Bang - it's all from personal experience being at the tapings.
 
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  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:59 pm
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Quote:
Ignoring the Nerd Rage and BBT discussion on purpose, but there are a lot of people on BGG that really need a tall cool glass of Get The Frak Over It.


So, because you don't like it, people aren't allowed to respectfully express their feelings on an issue, even one as fairly insignificant as a laugh track?

I also don't really understand how MASH has anything to do with it. I didn't really like MASH, and don't like BBT.

Some people just don't find the show funny (me), and some are distracted by the laughing - no matter whether it is contrived or not. I am inclined to believe the posters who say they have been to tapings and it is not contrived - it doesn't change the fact that I find it distracting and annoying and the show otherwise not funny anyway.

It's no big deal to disagree, but I always get my hackles up when someone comes on and says, essentially, "Just get over it and stop expressing your ridiculous opinion."

We're different. That's good. And discussing our differences is good too.
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  • Posted Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:01 pm
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I watched and really liked TBBT....for the first season. After that, I felt like the characters became charactatures of themselves and the plots felt like they were trying WAY too hard and failing.

Don't ask me why, but I never gave Community a shot. I guess it's largely because I never had someone put a clip in front of my face that drew me in. Then, I watched this:

JVKhoury wrote:


Fast-forward a few days, I've now blown through most of the first season, got my fiance completely turned onto the show as well, and geekgasmed by the end of watching Modern Warfare (just finished a few mins ago).

It's like TBBT made it socially acceptable enough to have geeky things on TV, and Community just took it to the next level: the one where we don't need to be smacked over the head over and over that some of these people are weird, things just happen which are geeky. And then while/after they happen, the show doesn't then feel the need to go, "HEY LOOK, THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD THINK THIS IS FUNNY!!" It just assumes you're into the culture enough and generally smart enough to get it.

Alas, the fact that the show relies on the viewer being smart does not bode well for it. But either way, thank you for turning me onto what is now one of my favorite shows on TV (only thing I can think of that I'm looking forward to seeing more is Breaking Bad) and thank you for freeing up space, since I don't think I can even watch season 1 of TBBT after this (I feel like it's 1992 and TBBT is a hair band).
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  • Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012 3:48 am
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Oh, and just to chime in about a laugh track.....you know what's cool about shows with a laugh track? There's 2 options:

1) The show is good and I'm laughing at the same time as the track, so I don't care that it's there.

2) The show sucks, the laugh track shows me exactly what awful things they think are funny, and I can realize I should be turning this off sooner.

Either way, I'm good with the end result.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012 3:50 am
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sybrwookie wrote:


It's like TBBT made it socially acceptable enough to have geeky things on TV, and Community just took it to the next level: the one where we don't need to be smacked over the head over and over that some of these people are weird, things just happen which are geeky. And then while/after they happen, the show doesn't then feel the need to go, "HEY LOOK, THIS IS WHY YOU SHOULD THINK THIS IS FUNNY!!" It just assumes you're into the culture enough and generally smart enough to get it.

Alas, the fact that the show relies on the viewer being smart does not bode well for it. But either way, thank you for turning me onto what is now one of my favorite shows on TV (only thing I can think of that I'm looking forward to seeing more is Breaking Bad) and thank you for freeing up space, since I don't think I can even watch season 1 of TBBT after this (I feel like it's 1992 and TBBT is a hair band).


Now watch The Middleman.

And yeah I should check out Community too.
 
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  • Posted Wed Feb 1, 2012 4:15 am
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I remember hearing laughter while watching episodes of the Flintstones. Was that a live audience or will I get in trouble for saying is was canned laughter?
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 12:58 am
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