Hoppie: That was an eight-punch combination! Where did you learn to box like that? PK: In prison, sir. Hoppie: Are you training to be a boxer or a comedian?
I'm fascinated by combinations. Growing up, I played a fair amount of Street Fighter 2 and its successor games. In this genre, a combination is a series of attacks such that if the first one hits your opponent, he cannot evade any of the rest, if the combo is performed correctly. I personally think the combo system reached its zenith in Street Fighter Alpha 3, for a few reasons: A) The combos are at a good difficulty level. A few (the weakest) are easy enough that anyone can do them, while stronger ones are hard. For example, I've played Guy (my favorite) for a long time, but I can't consistently bang out his toughest combos. I maybe get them every other time I try. B) Unlike previous Street Fighter games, there's a robust juggling system that allows you to tack on an extra hit or two, but not tons of hits. C) Certain characters (like Guy) are combo-intensive, while others (such as Adon) are not at all. They still maintain a pretty good balance between the various types, since the combo types have a steep learning curve. Guy can be deadly if you're very good, but if you try to use him while button-mashing or alternating a few cheap moves, you will do badly. D) Unlike the Vs. games, there are no infinites or even near-infinite combos. The nastiest combos I know of might take off 65% of your life, but they require a full super bar and are very difficult to land and perform. E) Attempting a combo is risky. You can jump in and follow with your "safe" attack, which won't do much damage but won't leave you open if it's blocked. Or you can try for a combo, which will do a number on your opponent, but if it's blocked you can expect a super fireball in the face.
The board game that is perhaps best known for combos is Chess. What chess player does not rejoice in a brilliant combination? The characteristics of chess combos that interest me are: A) They are risky. Most interesting combos involve sacrifices. If you make a mistake in your combo, you won't discover it until after the queen sacrifice, and at that point, you're sunk. B) They are like video game combos in that they must be done exactly right, but unlike in that each one is unique. A chess combo must be tailored to its precise situation. C) Playing chess, players take turns moving one piece each. Thus a combination needs to have only one or maybe two reasonable responses to each move in order to be doable. For this reason, many combinations include checking the king, which requires action from one's opponent. D) For a combination to be effective, it usually needs the element of surprise. If your opponent sees the combo before it starts, he can probably disrupt it. E) While combos are a tactical phenomenon, good strategic play can set them up. For example, fianchettoing your queen's bishop now might later contribute to a strong king-side attack.
What other board games have strong combos? While both of the games we've discussed are perfect-information, it seems like board game combos frequently flourish in games with action cards of some sort; since frequently the cards can be played all in a row and their interaction may produce extreme results unforeseeable by your opponents.
One basic example comes from Risk 2210 A.D.. This game has Nuclear command cards, which are generally expensive to play but powerful, though sometimes random. The most expensive card in the game is called Armegeddon. This allows all players, in turn order, to play as many nuclear cards as they want, for free. (Much chaos ensues). Another, much cheaper, card is called Frequency Jam, and prevents a specified opponent from playing any cards during your turn. It's usually used to protect against possible surprises like Cease Fire or Orbital Mines, but if you play this on the winning player and then play Armegeddon, that player will be winning no more. Everyone else gets to throw nukes, but not him!
Likewise, one of my finest gaming moments occurred in a game of Twilight Imperium (third edition). While my friends refer to this incident as, "Sam playing the I WIN card," it was actually a combination of at least four cards. The game had gone on for a while, and I was at 8 points while my opponents were slightly behind me, but they had beat down my board position a little and formed alliances against me. I expected to lose badly in the next couple of turns. However, I had the Political strategy card and I noticed that the way the turn had gone, I had more influence left than anyone else. I played an action card that let me search the action card deck for another card. I chose one that let me search the Political deck for a new agenda and put that up for debate when I executed the Political strategy. The agenda I chose was a vote on whether or not to lower the winning threshold to 8 VP. I think I may also have had an action card that let me prevent another player from voting or something like that, but the upshot is that I got the law passed and thus won a completely unexpected victory.
Here I Stand and Twilight Struggle are somewhat susceptible to combos, as I think are many CDGs. Traditional wargames or block wargames, are usually not, since a single move usually makes a comparatively small change in the game-state. A player might make a strong thrust in an unexpected sector, but it isn't a combo in the classic sense.
I also haven't run across many combos in Euros. I recall that there was a combo discussed (and deplored) on the Caylus boards, where a player with his marker advanced on the building favor track could build the church using the mason, use the favor gained from the church to build over the church with a residence, and do it all over again next turn. However, this is not terribly powerful (yielding 5 VP/turn at a cost of one stone, two cloth, and one denier), and in any case it's fairly easy to disrupt.
On the other hand, Blue Moon and Blue Moon City, where each card has a special ability, are more susceptible to combos. But for some reason they don't feel like chess combos to me. Maybe it's because they're expected by all players. If a player isn't chaining cards together, he is probably losing.
What do you all think? What board games give strong opportunities for combos? What are the best combos you've encountered?
As a bonus for those who read this far, starting around 1:30 there's a nice combo in this video:
D) Unlike the Vs. games, there are no infinites or even near-infinite combos. The nastiest combos I know of might take off 65% of your life, but they require a full super bar and are very difficult to land and perform.
Really? Because Cody and Ryu, just to name two, had infinites for days. But this is a board game site, so I will not digress on that point.
Most deckbuilding games, or games with deckbuilding elements, concentrate a lot on combinations of cards working together as a machine. Dominion, Thunderstone, Mage Knight, all games you should check out. Also, if you are a chess kind of person, Summoner Wars is probably to your taste.
Well, we could probably just skip Magic, The Gathering, as that's a no-brainer. But Innovation comes to mind as a game that is all about combos and tactical play. Not only that, combos can get hilariously powerful. Another game that fits this criteria is Glory To Rome. The combos are all strong and powerful, and if your opponent gets one going and you don't get yours, you are going to be defeated.
D)Most deckbuilding games, or games with deckbuilding elements, concentrate a lot on combinations of cards working together as a machine. Dominion, Thunderstone, Mage Knight, all games you should check out. Also, if you are a chess kind of person, Summoner Wars is probably to your taste.
Of the deckbuilding games, I've only played Dominion. It's OK, but it didn't grab me. Yes, you can find a few kingdom cards that work together very well, but a combination there is not (usually) that powerful, plus your opponent knows (more or less) what you have, and is expecting it. Is this likely to be true of the others?
Well, by their very nature all the CCGs are full of combos. Some more powerful than others. I know this is certainly true of L5R. But as to Dominion, hell yes there are power combos. Some can punish your opponents hand, others can net you unstoppable victory points once you set them up.
As for board games, the odd one that has a lot of possible combos is King Of Tokyo. The correct powers purchased, and how you play thereafter, can dramatically impact the game.
Dominion does grow with expansions, and I found Intrigue to add a lot of interesting combos when added to the base set, but I wouldn't want to recommend you get an expansion to a game you didn't like in the first place. Do keep in mind that different selections of cards will change how powerful the available combos are. Laboratory, for instance, is crazy town.
Thunderstone is similar to Dominion, but the emphasis is less on creating a powerful engine than trying to get frequent optimal draws. It's Dominion with a stronger theme, more pace, and more interesting but more fiddly mechanics.
Mage Knight I have not played, but I want to deeply. It involves constant cleverness as you use a deck of cards, all of which have an effect, a powered-up effect if you spend mana on them, and can also be played as a generic +1 of move/attack/influence/block. There's a lot of options and the skill of the game is optimizing the use of your deck turn by turn and day by day to gain better cards, followers, and powers. I suspect this would be the most interesting of the three, since you're always coming up with new combos to accomplish your goals, though they may not be as powerful and game-winning as you might be looking for.
So are there any notable combination board games that don't involve cards?
That don't even INVOLVE cards? Very few, since it's usually the interactions between cards that most readily give rise to combinations of events. Games that are not EXCLUSIVELY card based? Well I don't know what you have against cards, but going back to what I mentioned before, Summoner Wars has a grid and is kind of like Chess: the Gathering.
Wiz-War was re-released, which while it involves miniatures scrambling around a labyrinth, is driven by cards to use spells. The power level of spell combos in Wiz-War can get pretty crazy, so that might be to your taste.
Cyclades is a auction-based Eurotrash game, where picking the right gods at the right time for the right price is the key to victory. Cards are there, to represent mythical creatures and (in the expansion) heroes, but they are extra spice to the game rather than the meat-and-potatoes. Combining your actions, planning your bids ahead of time, and picking a clutch mythical creature is all very smart and fun, but I don't know if you would call it a "combo".
I'm really surprised you didn't discuss RFTG and Dominion, which in mind are two games that are basically entirely combo-oriented.
RFTG is mostly about making mini-combos out of what you have in your hand, and making do with what you have in the best way possible.
Dominion is about identifying the best combo, identifying the counters on the board, and executing it in the best manner.
Well, in both cases, you make combinations of cards, but not combinations of moves, which interest me more. In RftG, the cards in your hand are not usually used as a "mini-combo," but more as one or two cards to play and a bunch to spend as money. And while you certainly want a synergistic tableau, you're not usually making combos in the sense of chess.
In the case of Dominion, each turn is its own thing. You play your cards in the best way you can, there will probably be no surprises for your opponent there, and a given turn won't suddenly tip the game in your favor. Nor will what you do this turn have a significant effect on the game state for your next turn, unless you have an ultra-lean deck.
That don't even INVOLVE cards? Very few, since it's usually the interactions between cards that most readily give rise to combinations of events.
It seems to me that chess has deeper and more interesting combinations than any of the card, card-driven, or card-assisted games we've mentioned yet. Are there other games with similar combos?
It seems to me that chess has deeper and more interesting combinations than any of the card, card-driven, or card-assisted games we've mentioned yet. Are there other games with similar combos?
All your examples of combos in games in the OP involved cards, so could you give some examples of "combos" that don't involve cards in board games? The only thing I can really think of are certain situations in chess involving check, since it forces the opponent to act in a certain way.
Also I don't understand the distinction between moves and cards, unless you mean specifically games based around spacial logic.
Well, the ones I'm chiefly thinking about are chess combinations, as I said. I suspect some other abstracts will involve such combinations (maybe the Twixt example shown above, though I don't know the game well enough to say. Could I get some commentary on that?)
By "move" I think I mean "taking your turn." Admittedly, this disqualifies some of the examples I put in the OP, but so be it. You take your turn in such a way that your opponent will not be able to prevent your next move, and the one after that, and the one after that . . . maybe it's the being-able-to-dictate-your-opponent's-move that I enjoy most, or the struggle to perform interrelated actions across several turns without letting your opponent interrupt them.
You can do this in Twilight Struggle to a limited degree. US doesn't want to play to Malaysia on their first move, because the USSR will immediately coup there, and then US will have to [whatever whatever]. But if you do
Collecting a bunch of cards that work well together (in Dominion or RftG) isn't the same kind of thinking or action. Not that I'm denigrating these games by any means! They're good and skillful games, but I don't find them combinatorial.
I suspect some other abstracts will involve such combinations (maybe the Twixt example shown above, though I don't know the game well enough to say. Could I get some commentary on that?)
Kamisado has some good combo potential. You have a certain degree of control over the pieces your opponent can move, so chaining together combos comes pretty naturally.
Ricochet Robots is a bit of a different take, but it's all about finding combos faster than your opponents, who can then "counter" by finding a more optimal combo.
And of course, though it's a card game, I can't help but mention Yomi, considering the SF2 comparison.
In response to others, while I agree that deck building games do have combos in them, I don't really think they meet the specific definition that the OP is looking for. In his definition, you are deliberately setting up the combo, but in a deck builder you are dependent upon luck of the draw. In his definition, combos can be blocked, but most deck builders your opponents don't even know what is in your hand, so planned blocking becomes difficult.
I think a lot of worker placement games, not just Caylus in particular, will meet this defintion. Pillars of the Earth requires you to set up a production chain of acquiring resources and acquiring the right laborers to use them in order to convert to points. However, any of the actions in this chain can be stolen by other players. Le Havre has similar aspects as well. Stone Age also requires chaining, but blocking your opponents chains isn't always possible.
Pandemic is kind of the inverse of what you are looking for. The way that outbreaks occur can be brutal against the players, and the way the deck forces the same cards to be redrawn effectively creates combos. Aside from the actual victory conditions of the game, players have to prevent these combos from happening if they want to survive.
Dungeon Lords is a game that is entirely dependent upon creating combinations of monsters and traps to prevent the game from beating you. However, since player interaction is minimal, this fails the "combos can be blocked" requirement.
Through the Ages can have combos, as the cards you pick up and how you meld their abilities together are critical. However, everything builds gradually and there is rarely a single "gotcha" moment where you make a huge push forward or annihilate your opponents, so I don't know if empire builders fit in with what the OP intends.
How about Robo Rally. You have to get your robot from the start grid to a series of check points faster than your opponents. However, your actions can interfere with their actions.
It can be a little bit random at times, but when you can predict a portion of their actions, you can interfere.
Also, you play your hand in a series of moves, which - like a combo - once you start you cannot stop. If it's going well for you, all is great. If it goes poorly, you still have to see it through, even if you know you'll destroy your robot. Sometimes your opponent can get the better of you, and interfere with your robot five times in a turn.
Here I Stand and Twilight Struggle are somewhat susceptible to combos, as I think are many CDGs.
I can think of a handful of TS combos, but can't think of any I've ever employed (or seen) in HIS. Can you name an example? Since there are very few instances when you'd play more than 1 card in an impulse (maybe a Response card that adds troops before a field battle or assault, or an anti-mercenary Combat card), usually you play a card then wait for the other 5 players to take their impulses before it comes back to you. A lot can happen in that time to change your plans!
They're pretty small combos, admittedly, but you can, for example, use Holy Roman Emperor to teleport Charles V to Besancon, raise four mercs, and besiege a lightly-French-held Metz. Then you might be able to prevent a French intervention with Foul Weather or Gout or maybe Halley's Comet, and take it next turn with Treachery.
It's not quite a chess combo, but it's pretty satisfying. I usually find myself trying to save cards up for a big coup, rather than spending them for steady growth.
Hm, worker placement and production chain rings a bell. Agricola, Le Havre...
Then there's gamen in which you'll need to fulfill orders or connect cities...: Ticket to Ride, TransAmerica The orders you draw may fit together better or worse.
Lots of other games using cards in various ways come to mind, but if we leave cards, what about Dungeon Twister? You're moving your characters across a variable game board depicting a dungeon. You may use all of your characters during your turn (within your ops points limit) and one character might set up a second one by i.e. opening a door or turning a dungeon tile so that the second one may reach an item or pick a fight...
Luna (different actions to be taken by your adepts firing off others), Kablamo (you may set up various movements of your revolver), Neuroshima Hex! (tiles interacting), Rallyman (movement off of die rolls set up the next movement), Glen More (a new tile laid activates adjacent tiles), 1812: The Invasion of Canada (your various factions may reactivate cubes of other factions for movement or combat)...
Glen More is all about setting up combos among the tiles in your village.
Agricola has some nice combos, where you can produce or at least obtain extra resources of some type, and then an improvement lets you convert those to points or food.
In a recent game of Homesteaders, I really wanted a "Special" building. Instead of winning the auction that would have allowed me to build it directly, I won the auction allowing building one of two other types of buildings. I built a building whose immediate special benefit was to be allowed to build any other building of any type. So in combination with taking on 2 debt tokens, and using a few trade chits to convert goods to other goods, I was able to build the building I wanted. Does that count?
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game has combos. I guess it's kind of like a co-op version of Magic, although I haven't played Magic so I can't confirm that. It's cards, and it involves deck construction, but hear me out. Before the game starts, you choose (up to) 3 heroes, and there are definitely some combos there. For example, one hero can generate a resource token each turn they commit to a quest. Another hero can spend a resource to "ready" (un-tap) themselves. So if you pick both of these heroes, both can quest, and then you can use the resource that one generates to ready the other so he can also attack or defend in the same turn.
In Lords of Waterdeep, you complete quests by spending resources. Some quests give back fewer and possibly different types of resources as a reward. Apparently sometimes you can chain together quests, where completing #1 gives you the resources to complete #2. I don't know if there are cases where you could add a #3 to the chain.
Me...I'm not a big fan of combos. They can be ok, but they can also be annoying.
