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NY Toy Fair 2012: Steve Jackson Games Does What It Does Best – Munchkin, Zombies, Cthulhu & More

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I've already covered a bit of what's coming from Steve Jackson Games in 2012 – in this post a half-dozen new colors of Cthulhu Dice and a new set of six Munchkin Level Counters; in this post a passing reference to work on Munchkin Zombies 3; and on Gone Cardboard three-quarters of the way down this page you'll see listings for two new Munchkin base sets – Munchkin Conan and Munchkin Apocalypse – among many other items.

At NY Toy Fair, SJG's Phil Reed was showing of one of the new Cthulhu Dice colors as well as a solid metal version of the Cthulhu die that will be released sometime in 2012. That thing is heavy! Do not bring it to table if you fear that players will be spiteful when losing.

Reed had an advance copy of Zombie Dice 2: Double Feature, due out in April 2012, and those dice look as nice as the ones in the original game. I recall seeing a tweet from SJG about tests for Zombie Dice 3 – a tweet I can't find at the moment – and it's easy to imagine the game being expanded in any number of ways. That said, Steve Jackson Games is also tweaking the original Zombie Dice game to appear under a new title: Dinosaur Dice Dino Hunt Dice, with that title matching its 1996 card game of the same name. Some mainstream retailers are leery of presenting that scrawny rotting zombie on Zombie Dice to their customers, so SJG is reconfiguring the game in a more family-friendly direction for those zombie-averse retailers. Reed pointed out that the footprints shown on the three types of dice match the dinosaurs on those dice – a nice touch.

Reed gave a quick demo of Halloween Dice, due out in August 2012 and another entry in SJG's line of quick-playing dice games. Here's the game description:

Quote:
Halloween Dice comes with a set of big orange-and-black six-siders, with custom Jack o' Lantern designs on each face. Your goal: roll those dice and try to reach the lucky total of 13. (Normally 13 is considered an unlucky number, but for Halloween, when darkness and otherworldly things are celebrated, luck stands on its head.)

On a turn, you choose one, two, or three dice and receive respectively $2, $5, or $9, with money being represented by tokens. You then roll those dice. If the sum on the dice equals 13, you end your turn and keep the money you collected. If the total is less than 13, you can stop and pay $1 times the difference between your sum and 13, or you can again choose 1-3 dice (receiving more money) and roll again, adding the newly rolled sum to your previous sum. You again face the same options of stopping or choosing more dice and rolling again. If your sum goes over 13, however, your turn ends and you pay $2 times the difference between your sum and 13!

The player with the most money after three rounds wins.


Finally, Reed showed off the components for the two-player game Castellan – due out in Q3 2012 – and give enough of an overview that I've updated the game description:

Quote:
In Castellan, two players work together to build a castle. Finely-detailed wall and tower pieces link together to form courtyards, and the player who finishes a courtyard claims it with a Keep, scoring points for that courtyard equal to the number of tower pieces surrounding it.

In more detail, each player starts the game with two decks of cards: a wall deck and a tower deck. Each card allows a player to play the components shown on it, with the wall deck cards always depicting at least one wall (and some combination of walls/towers) and the tower deck cards always depicting at least one tower (and again some combination of walls/towers). On a turn, a player can play as many cards as she wants, but she draws only one card at the end of her turn. The goal is to create courtyards – and subdivide existing courtyards – while keeping your opponent from doing the same. Players have the same cards in their decks, so the challenge is all about what to use when. The game ends when all the castle pieces are used up, and the player with the most points wins.

Two different pairs of Keep colors are available in Castellan, so with two copies of the game – and the right combination of bits – up to four players can play.

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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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I thought SJG just did Car Wars.
Oh wait, that was the 80s.
What they really just do is GURPS.
Oops, no, that was the 90s.
Munchkin...that was the 00s.
So, what's next? Steve?
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:03 pm
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Nate Downs
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Really that's quite a good roster of flagship products... I mean, a lot of companies (board game and otherwise) would kill for that type of portfolio...
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:08 pm
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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Indeed. But they have always been this odd one-hit-at-a-time wonder. And it's always left them vulnerable.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:09 pm
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Jeff M
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Castellan looks/sounds like a mix of Carcassonne The Castle and Torres, though probably plays like neither
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:15 pm
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Nate Baker
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bryanwinter wrote:
I thought SJG just did Car Wars.
Oh wait, that was the 80s.
What they really just do is GURPS.
Oops, no, that was the 90s.
Munchkin...that was the 00s.
So, what's next? Steve?


Random Dice Games Bryan. Random Dice Games. He's already reimplimenting Zombie Dice, it'll happen again.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:26 pm
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JeffyJeff wrote:
Castellan looks/sounds like a mix of Carcassonne The Castle and Torres, though probably plays like neither

I'm thinking it sounds more like a good version of Courtyard, which I ditched after a few games.

bryanwinter wrote:
Indeed. But they have always been this odd one-hit-at-a-time wonder. And it's always left them vulnerable.

Steve Jackson Games grossed $3.5 million in 2010, with 75% of that total attributed to the Munchkin family, so I suppose there's some truth in what you say, but it's hard to imagine Munchkin sales turning off all at once. And I'm sure most game publishers would be happy to worry about such problems...
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:42 pm
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knatebaker wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
I thought SJG just did Car Wars.
Oh wait, that was the 80s.
What they really just do is GURPS.
Oops, no, that was the 90s.
Munchkin...that was the 00s.
So, what's next? Steve?


Random Dice Games Bryan. Random Dice Games. He's already reimplimenting Zombie Dice, it'll happen again.


As long as Ogre Deluxe happens, he can print anything he damn well pleases as far as I am concerned.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:47 pm
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Alan Kaiser
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W Eric Martin wrote:

bryanwinter wrote:
Indeed. But they have always been this odd one-hit-at-a-time wonder. And it's always left them vulnerable.

Steve Jackson Games grossed $3.5 million in 2010, with 75% of that total attributed to the Munchkin family, so I suppose there's some truth in what you say, but it's hard to imagine Munchkin sales turning off all at once. And I'm sure most game publishers would be happy to worry about such problems...


Vulnerable!! To what?? Making money. SJG probably makes more money than a handful of boardgame publishers that would be considered favorites around these parts.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:23 am
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David Boeren
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You'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.

That's been SJG's motto for years and it continues to work amazingly well for them. Munchkin and random dice games it is. They used to produce some better games long ago, but apparently those didn't sell nearly as well.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:59 am
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alkaiser wrote:
W Eric Martin wrote:
bryanwinter wrote:
Indeed. But they have always been this odd one-hit-at-a-time wonder. And it's always left them vulnerable.

Steve Jackson Games grossed $3.5 million in 2010, with 75% of that total attributed to the Munchkin family, so I suppose there's some truth in what you say, but it's hard to imagine Munchkin sales turning off all at once. And I'm sure most game publishers would be happy to worry about such problems...

Vulnerable!! To what?? Making money. SJG probably makes more money than a handful of boardgame publishers that would be considered favorites around these parts.

Vulnerable to Munchkin sales drying up and losing three-quarters of its business. Again, it's a stretch to imagine sales would disappear instantly, especially with the game now being available in numerous mainstream outlets, but it's always possible.

dboeren wrote:
You'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.

That's been SJG's motto for years and it continues to work amazingly well for them. Munchkin and random dice games it is. They used to produce some better games long ago, but apparently those didn't sell nearly as well.

And I thought I was cynical! How about "You'll never go broke designing games that people want to buy and play"?
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:52 am
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UndeadViking wrote:
As long as Ogre Deluxe happens, he can print anything he damn well pleases as far as I am concerned.


Ha! You hold your breath for that one. The supposed 6th edition was their sad excuse to get out from under the heat they were taking for making Kwanchai take down his excellent Ogre remake.

"Oh, it'll damage us, we couldn't bring out a new version with that around."
"It's OK that we lawyered up on that because you'll get 6th edition Ogre instead!"
"Oh, we'll get around to it soon."
"Ok, maybe not soon, and it'll be limited edition and $100..."
"OK, maybe we'll get around to it someday..."

See it anywhere on their 2012 calendar? No? Huh, I wonder why not? They had time to make sure stuffed tentacles and Munchkin Proctologist shipped.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:53 am
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I suppose there's no reason to go on a lengthy rant about stuff that's obviously not made for me, but god**** do I hate Munchkin. So sloppily designed, so stupid, so badly made in every respect. I just hate it. It's an embarrassment to gaming.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:57 am
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Well, Castellan at least appears compelling. At bare minimum, the component quality looks stellar. Though nowadays I am becoming more and more weary of glitz over content.

Hope this one turns out to be a winner.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:57 am
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rylfrazier wrote:
I suppose there's no reason to go on a lengthy rant about stuff that's obviously not made for me, but god**** do I hate Munchkin. So sloppily designed, so stupid, so badly made in every respect. I just hate it. It's an embarrassment to gaming.


It sounds like you may have had fun once, and hated it.

Just kidding, but seriously, people love munchkin, its ok. Just breathe. ::hugs::
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:49 am
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I think some people are making assumptions about Steve Jackson Games and their vulnerability that might not be true.

McDonald's does not leave itself vulnerable by making the same cheap hamburgers. There are a lot of restaurants that offer a bigger variety and can make better hamburgers than McDonald's but they don't make the money of a single franchise, let alone the company. McDonald's goals are real estate acquisition and corporate profit. They succeed.

SJG is a profitable company that continues to find ways to get its product in front of more and more people. Its goals may not be the same as some other game companies (I don't know what SJG's true corporate goals are) but people continue to buy and enjoy their games, which means they are doing the primary job of any business, making money. And I bet if Munchkin sales dried up tomorrow they would have a "Plan B" rolling in no time. They have done it before as described in a previous post talking about their trends during decades.

Making the best product or having a diverse amount of products, does not make you the most successful in business. Not every company should aim to compete for the limited resources of hard-core gamers. Some of the companies that are making the "best games", the ones that we geeks love, will be gone in 5 years (ask the gronards about all of the wargame companies from the 80's). It is the companies that are more about "passion projects" than bottom line that are more vulnerable.
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  • Edited Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:05 am
  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:05 am
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David Low
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BC Indy wrote:
(I don't know what SJG's true corporate goals are)


fnord

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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:46 am
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BC Indy wrote:
And I bet if Munchkin sales dried up tomorrow they would have a "Plan B" rolling in no time.


Munchkin WAS a Plan B.
SJG operated as a "long tail, wide portfolio" company for the longest time, and Munchkin was designed with the same intent.
A cute fun game, sell a bunch, and then maintain small sales over the long run.

They weren't expecting a hit. But they got one. So now they're responding to demand.

For all people here bitch about Munchkin, the fact is that people obviously want it. Not YOU, but you're not everyone. The fact is, it's on it's 24th(?) reprint, and the last print run was over A HUNDRED THOUSAND copies.

Whatever your favorite, best game is, I doubt it's sold even a remote fraction of that amount. Dominion is a million seller, as is TTR and Catan. Carc has some serious sales as well. And that's about it.

Small World? Only recently hit 100k copies (as per the April 2011 press release for SW Underground). Note that the 100k reprint was just for regular Fantasy Munchkin. Base sets. Not expansions.

JohnMunsch wrote:
See it anywhere on their 2012 calendar? No? Huh, I wonder why not? They had time to make sure stuffed tentacles and Munchkin Proctologist shipped.


You do realize that they have a dedicated Munchkin division who work on Munchkin and not other things, right? Time spent on Munchkin by most of the staff has zero impact on Ogre progress.

You also realize that it's been stated a lot of times that Ogre will most likely LOSE money for the company.

So what are you going to prioritize? Making a STUPID HUGE return on time spent on Munchkin... or throwing away money pandering to people who bitch about you behind your back because you're not willing to lose large sums of money on demand?
It's called Opportunity Cost.

Ultimately, the real delay comes down to
1: There is only one Steve Jackson
2: There are only so many hours in the day
3: A lot of those hours are chewed up by just running the business, day to day.

A regular refrain is that they are constantly trying to make time for Steve to just go home and work on designing games for a week, but there's never enough time to manage it.

It took more work to get Ogre 6 to the state it's at (graphic design done, sell sheet, prototypes, etc) than it would take to design a plush tentacle. I could do the entire plush tentacle thing myself in maybe 10 actual dedicated hours on design.

SJG is a business, and the business of business, as they say, is making money. Munchkin makes money. Ogre does not. Even if it does, it won't ever make as much as Munchkin for the same investment.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:28 am
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palmerkun wrote:

one of the best and most reasonable posts I've yet seen on BGG


thumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

Ah, thank you so much for that wonderful breath of fresh air in here, BGG certainly needed it.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:03 am
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palmerkun wrote:

1: There is only one Steve Jackson

That's not true, actually.
There are at least two of them in the gaming industry alone:
This one and
GW co-founder

Sorry for the interruption. I couldn't resist.
Please continue your discussion.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:41 am
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bryanwinter wrote:
Indeed. But they have always been this odd one-hit-at-a-time wonder. And it's always left them vulnerable.


Looking at their catalog, Illuminati is another long term game that looks like it went through several print runs in the last year including a new expansion. Not a breakout hit like Munchkin and the dice games, but certainly an evergreen game. The reception for Revolution also appears to have been positive since it warranted an expansion, and I believe was also reprinted.

Don't let the overwhelming success of Munchkin blind you to the fact that they do make other games that appear to be selling well.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:23 am
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JeffyJeff wrote:
Castellan looks/sounds like a mix of Carcassonne The Castle and Torres, though probably plays like neither


Exactly what I thought. The pieces look cool and I think it would be the sort of game that my 4 year old would enjoy playing for it it's toy-like nature as much as the game itself.
 
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:14 am
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palmerkun wrote:
You do realize that they have a dedicated Munchkin division who work on Munchkin and not other things, right? Time spent on Munchkin by most of the staff has zero impact on Ogre progress.

You also realize that it's been stated a lot of times that Ogre will most likely LOSE money for the company.

So what are you going to prioritize? Making a STUPID HUGE return on time spent on Munchkin... or throwing away money pandering to people who bitch about you behind your back because you're not willing to lose large sums of money on demand?
It's called Opportunity Cost.

Ultimately, the real delay comes down to
1: There is only one Steve Jackson
2: There are only so many hours in the day
3: A lot of those hours are chewed up by just running the business, day to day.

A regular refrain is that they are constantly trying to make time for Steve to just go home and work on designing games for a week, but there's never enough time to manage it.


So then why again did Kwanchai's Ogre have to go? The same reason that FFG had to force his Wiz-War off the market before they did theirs right? Oh wait... that's still available.

Ogre 6 was fodder for the gullible. It's not coming. It never was coming. But they didn't need the Kwanchai thing turning into an Internet thing. They can afford some bad press among those who don't like Munchkin here (and frankly I could care less, if some people like it, great) but they can't afford it in the wider Internet.
 
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:33 pm
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Justin Wertz
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puncr0c wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
Castellan looks/sounds like a mix of Carcassonne The Castle and Torres, though probably plays like neither


Exactly what I thought. The pieces look cool and I think it would be the sort of game that my 4 year old would enjoy playing for it it's toy-like nature as much as the game itself.


It sort of reminds me of the pen & paper game we used to play with all of the dots on it. You connected the dots to try and close a square, thus claiming the square. And, yes, my 5 year old does enjoy that game, so she'd probably enjoy a 3-D castle-like version of it.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 12:52 pm
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I know the one you mean. Looks like they have made board game versions of that in the past already: Dots and Boxes
 
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:00 pm
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See this text? It's a gratuitous waste of GeekGold.
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The game itself isn't important. Spending time intellectually jousting with likeminded folks is the real reason to game.
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palmerkun wrote:
A regular refrain is that they are constantly trying to make time for Steve to just go home and work on designing games for a week, but there's never enough time to manage it.


Then, Steve needs to hand over day-to-day operations to a trusted person and focus on being chief game designer and overseer. Have him spend maybe a day on business meetings and the rest on product development.

If he's the one that's come up with their golden products, he should be doing what he does best.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:14 pm
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JeffyJeff wrote:
Castellan looks/sounds like a mix of Carcassonne The Castle and Torres
and Medina.
 
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 7:32 pm
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I'd like to see a more euro Steve Jackson game. Perhaps they should do a kickstarter for a new property to see if there's interest. The thing is, I'm done with Munchkin unless he comes up with less random/swingy mechanics. I'd even welcome a revisiting of the Illuminati property.
 
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:20 pm
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Neo42 wrote:
I'd like to see a more euro Steve Jackson game. Perhaps they should do a kickstarter for a new property to see if there's interest. The thing is, I'm done with Munchkin unless he comes up with less random/swingy mechanics. I'd even welcome a revisiting of the Illuminati property.


Wasn't that Revolution!
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:29 pm
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W. Eric Martin
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Neo42 wrote:
I'd like to see a more euro Steve Jackson game. Perhaps they should do a kickstarter for a new property to see if there's interest. The thing is, I'm done with Munchkin unless he comes up with less random/swingy mechanics. I'd even welcome a revisiting of the Illuminati property.

As noted in January 2012, SJG is reprinting Illuminati: Deluxe Edition, Illuminati: Y2K, and Illuminati: Bavarian Fire Drill in 2012. Whether new Illuminati stuff will follow is unknown for now.

As Lee suggests, Revolution! is a more Euro SJG title, and the game has been well-received so don't be surprised by either more expansions for that title or different designs in the same mold in the years to come.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:53 pm
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I might possibly agree with the vulnerable comment but I would also have to mention that SJG has been around for over 30 years.

I thought Munchkin was kind of funny the first read through. After the second game, I realized the real purpose of the game is to see how quickly you could allow someone to get to 10 life to end the game.

That being said, if Munchkin is paying the bills and that allows for even the slightest chance of SJG coming out with a completely updated and cleaned up version of Car Wars (not the crap that 5e was), I'm all for it.

As far as the visually stunning Kwanchai reskin, I seem to recall the "error" there was 1) using the Ogre name and 2) copying the rules verbatim. Had that not been done, SJG would have had a hard time trying to prohibit anything. However, I think SJG were fools not coming to some sort of arrangement to use the Kwanchai artwork on something that could be made (and of course sold) NOW, as opposed to the *sometime-in-the-future* for Ogre 6e. I don't think sales of a Kwanchai version would have impacted sales of Ogre 6e one iota.

IMHO, that was not a business decision by SJG but a personal one by Steve Jackson. (but that is purely a guess on my part)

And so not to be all negative, every dealing I have had with SJG has been great and as a completely minor contributor to Car Wars back in the day, the loot they provided me was WAY beyond what I ever would have expected.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:54 pm
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dboeren wrote:
You'll never go broke appealing to the lowest common denominator.

That's been SJG's motto for years and it continues to work amazingly well for them. Munchkin and random dice games it is. They used to produce some better games long ago, but apparently those didn't sell nearly as well.


Yep. Why push the envelope when you can get rich releasing the same game over and over again..

shake
 
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  • Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:41 am
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J J
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Really don't get why people seem to hold what SJG does in such low regard.

They are a business. They make money from games that sell. And their games do sell. They are not in any way obligated to produce games that you like, or diversify in a way that pleases you.

Now, I'm pretty sure that the above points won't see any argument, so why do the disparaging sentiments get wheeled out time and time again? What's your real problem with SJG? Coz I don't see how anything they do (or don't do) can possibly have a negative effect on you.

Is it just envy? Snobbery? Misplaced ideas of duty to "the hobby"?
 
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  • Edited Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:56 pm
  • Posted Sat Feb 25, 2012 11:53 pm
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I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's all about the Kwanchai incident and then the successive lies about Ogre 6th edition to try and quash the outcry.

Everything else, the Munchkin hate, etc. goes in a lot of different directions. Maybe snobbery or a belief that they could do a lot better (and have in the past) so they should do something better now, who knows. I don't subscribe to any of that. I think Revolution looks like a fun and interesting game, I wouldn't be caught dead buying it, but it looks like a good game.
 
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  • Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:08 am
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J J
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JohnMunsch wrote:
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's all about the Kwanchai incident and then the successive lies about Ogre 6th edition to try and quash the outcry.

Everything else, the Munchkin hate, etc. goes in a lot of different directions. Maybe snobbery or a belief that they could do a lot better (and have in the past) so they should do something better now, who knows. I don't subscribe to any of that. I think Revolution looks like a fun and interesting game, I wouldn't be caught dead buying it, but it looks like a good game.


Okay, see, that makes no sense to me.

Why would you not be caught dead buying a game that you think is interesting and looks like both fun and a good game?
 
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  • Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:31 am
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For me, at least, it's disappointment at lack of growth.

Sure, I played SJG stuff when I was younger (including lots of Munchkin). So I look for new releases from SJG that look interesting to my interests, but find none. I've moved on, but SJG hasn't.
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  • Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012 4:46 am
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J J
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dwsparks wrote:
For me, at least, it's disappointment at lack of growth.

Sure, I played SJG stuff when I was younger (including lots of Munchkin). So I look for new releases from SJG that look interesting to my interests, but find none. I've moved on, but SJG hasn't.


Lack of growth? Or lack of growth that you approve of? Cos I see no lack of growth over the years.

But let's assume that there had been no growth - why does it matter? Why does whatever SJG do (or not do) engender disappointment? I can understand being happy that they make a game you like, but I cannot comprehend being unhappy about something they don't do. That would be like frowning upon Hans Im Gluck for not making Ameritrash... Or being sad because Michael Bay hasn't done chick flicks or deep and meaningful adult dramas.

I see your point that what they produce no longer appeals to you - Games Workshop once held interest for me, but no longer. I just don't see why that causes anything beyond "okay, what they do is no longer for me, shrug, time to move on to something else".
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  • Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:21 am
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JasonJ0 wrote:
dwsparks wrote:
For me, at least, it's disappointment at lack of growth.

Sure, I played SJG stuff when I was younger (including lots of Munchkin). So I look for new releases from SJG that look interesting to my interests, but find none. I've moved on, but SJG hasn't.


Lack of growth? Or lack of growth that you approve of? Cos I see no lack of growth over the years.

But let's assume that there had been no growth - why does it matter? Why does whatever SJG do (or not do) engender disappointment? I can understand being happy that they make a game you like, but I cannot comprehend being unhappy about something they don't do. That would be like frowning upon Hans Im Gluck for not making Ameritrash... Or being sad because Michael Bay hasn't done chick flicks or deep and meaningful adult dramas.

I see your point that what they produce no longer appeals to you - Games Workshop once held interest for me, but no longer. I just don't see why that causes anything beyond "okay, what they do is no longer for me, shrug, time to move on to something else".


I think it is disappointing because SJ used to make creative and innovative stuff and it now feels like they appeal to lowest common denominator. If it had always been that way, people would probably not have these feelings. Also there are a lot of things SJ has promised over the years that never came to fruition.
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  • Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:01 pm
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JasonJ0 wrote:
Why would you not be caught dead buying a game that you think is interesting and looks like both fun and a good game?


Because I wouldn't support a company that has behaved like they did with about the Kwanchai Ogre remix. Any more than many others here would buy anything Games Workshop produces after what they pulled with BGG.
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  • Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:51 pm
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JohnMunsch wrote:
Because I wouldn't support a company that has behaved like they did with about the Kwanchai Ogre remix.


I really don't have a beef with their behavior as far as it concerns the use of the Ogre name as well as using their rulebook verbatim as that is clearly not allowed without their permission.

However, I think they really dropped the ball by not coming to an agreement with Kwanchai to make some money with the reskin. Sort of a "we can't have him do this but if he follows these rules, SJG, Kwanchai, and fans win" scenario.

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  • Posted Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:29 pm
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palmerkun wrote:
You do realize that they have a dedicated Munchkin division who work on Munchkin and not other things, right? Time spent on Munchkin by most of the staff has zero impact on Ogre progress.


Thank you for the detailed post, but I need to correct the above statement. Steve works on Munchkin and Ogre, so any Munchkin work Steve is assigned has to be wrapped up before Ogre work. And our entire production team works on Munchkin, so Ogre work happens around Munchkin deadlines.

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  • Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:16 am
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W Eric Martin wrote:
As noted in January 2012, SJG is reprinting Illuminati: Deluxe Edition, Illuminati: Y2K, and Illuminati: Bavarian Fire Drill in 2012. Whether new Illuminati stuff will follow is unknown for now.


We have ideas, but finding time for Steve to execute those ideas to his satisfaction is always the challenge. Our in-house design and development staff are down to effectively three of us (Steve, Andrew, and me), but all of us are already quite busy so finding time for more projects is never easy.

Steve - President and CEO of the company, which takes time no matter how much I manage to deal with. Not to mention Munchkin and Ogre, both of which come before the mountain of other games already in our pipeline.

Andrew - Munchkin Czar. If it isn't Munchkin then it's not a priority for Andrew. But even after having said that Andrew is working on a couple of unannounced expansions for Revolution!

Me - Between routine operations, manufacturing, overseeing creative staff, and generally acting as a buffer between Steve and the tiny headaches there's just no way I can do more than sit in on meetings and give my opinions and help brainstorm solutions to problems.

We're doing what we can with the staff that we have.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:23 am
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lfisher wrote:
I think it is disappointing because SJ used to make creative and innovative stuff and it now feels like they appeal to lowest common denominator.


I feel that we're still creative and, at times, innovative. Over the last decade we have released several new games and even watched as the success of Zombie Dice and Cthulhu Dice helped spearhead a wave of new dice games. And we have new games in the works, not to mention the different tricks we have tried (and usually quite successfully) to keep Munchkin always growing and expanding for the fans of the game.


lfisher wrote:
Also there are a lot of things SJ has promised over the years that never came to fruition.


Steve is as guilty as you and I when it comes to this one thing:

Steve is human.

I know that I often get excited when we're working on something new and I want to share with everyone. Just within the last few weeks I was given the clearance to put together two detailed proposals for projects that will excite a lot of people if we proceed. And I would love to post both proposals for everyone to see, but we've been trying to get better about keeping our plans quiet until we're either looking at factory samples or have enough work completed that we're comfortable sharing with others.

Do we always keep our plans secret until we're certain that we are ready? Not at all. But we're trying to get better at not even mentioning game names or rough concepts until we're further along.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:38 am
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PhilReed wrote:
lfisher wrote:
I think it is disappointing because SJ used to make creative and innovative stuff and it now feels like they appeal to lowest common denominator.


I feel that we're still creative and, at times, innovative. Over the last decade we have released several new games and even watched as the success of Zombie Dice and Cthulhu Dice helped spearhead a wave of new dice games. And we have new games in the works, not to mention the different tricks we have tried (and usually quite successfully) to keep Munchkin always growing and expanding for the fans of the game.


lfisher wrote:
Also there are a lot of things SJ has promised over the years that never came to fruition.


Steve is as guilty as you and I when it comes to this one thing:

Steve is human.

I know that I often get excited when we're working on something new and I want to share with everyone. Just within the last few weeks I was given the clearance to put together two detailed proposals for projects that will excite a lot of people if we proceed. And I would love to post both proposals for everyone to see, but we've been trying to get better about keeping our plans quiet until we're either looking at factory samples or have enough work completed that we're comfortable sharing with others.

Do we always keep our plans secret until we're certain that we are ready? Not at all. But we're trying to get better at not even mentioning game names or rough concepts until we're further along.


Thanks for all your responses Phil. Very interesting insights!
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  • Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:14 pm
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lfisher wrote:
Thanks for all your responses Phil. Very interesting insights!


My pleasure. I just hope that I helped some of you better understand where we're coming from.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:18 pm
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