Full Expansion - Monty Python and the Holy Grail | Defenders of the Realm

♫ Eric Herman ♫

(Grudunza)

United States
West Richland
Washington

I like elephants. I like how they swing through trees.

Had a chance to playtest this the other day. It works quite well in general, but I've since made a number of changes from the original version. Most notably, the Supporting Roles will have more of an impact now. As it was, you could pretty easily avoid some of them. Spam is also a little different, and there is an alternate version of the Bridge Keeper that doesn't require the Questions Three cards and uses the Knights' Intelligence ratings. It should be noted that the Intelligence ratings are based on a scale of 10.

I've also added Knight (Hero) sheets for Brother Maynard and Tim the Enchanter, but those should be used last (if other Knights are killed) and if they enter the game, then their corresponding Companion cards should immediately be removed from the game.

I should also note that all of the individual files for this, in their latest versions, are available through my Photobucket site: http://s746.photobucket.com/albums/xx107/Grudunza/Monty%20Py...

And there is an Artscow deck that includes all of the regular-sized cards needed for this (and cards for some other great Richard Launius variants), available here: http://www.artscow.com/gallery/card/defenders-of-the-realm-v... (That deck is updated with the latest versions of the cards.)

Edited Sat May 21, 2011 9:19 pm
Posted Sat May 21, 2011 5:31 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

♫ Eric Herman ♫

(Grudunza)

United States
West Richland
Washington

I like elephants. I like how they swing through trees.

Three more playtests yesterday, and I got my butt kicked badly every time. Wow. Maybe I just got really unlucky or maybe I just stink, or some combination of those things, but I can't recall losing that badly that often at this game. So I've made some changes and uploaded version 3.0, which should be available soon, hopefully. This time, though, I'm leaving up the previous PDF (2.1), because you may want to opt to use the prior version if you like to play a harder game. It's also possible that the changes I've made will tip things the other way, where it's too easy now to win, but my sense is that's not the case, as most of the changes are minimal.

Here's what's different in version 3.0:

I gave Sir Robin and Sir Galahad an extra life token (6 instead of 5). Their characters always seemed a little weak in terms of the abilities, so an extra life token should help.

King Arthur's quest has been changed. It should still be really hard to complete, but now it doesn't include the requirement to lose to a General. This game can already be brutal enough if you ever lose to a General, so I didn't think that was a good requirement to include.

Sir Bedevere has a cool new ability based on his witch experience, where he weighs the duck and the lady and they come out the same. If he is ever in a location with exactly two minions, and they are different types of minions (e.g. red and blue), he may remove one of them as a free action (he is, in essence, declaring one of them to be a witch, and the townspeople take care of burning it). I've already used that in the last two games I played and I like it a lot... It's not something that comes up that often, but it's nice for him to look for the opportunities to use that ability.

I removed Sir Lancelot's "Valiant Knight" ability, which was of the "almost never useful" variety, and replaced it with the more amusing and useful "I Get a Bit Carried Away" ability: "When you kill 2 or more minions with one action, gain an additional action for that turn." Makes him a little more of the kick ass character that he should be.

I forgot to change this on the PDF rule page, but I'm removing the restriction for using Brother Maynard or Tim the Enchanter as Knights unless all other Knights are killed... Those two characters seem to be pretty powerful, so even though thematically it's better to use the other Knights first (and that's still the way I'll play it), in terms of having the best chance to win it might be better to have one or two of them on the team. What I might do at some point is make Companion cards for all of the Knights (except Arthur, who I think definitely must be in the game, regardless), so whichever Knights aren't chosen in the game to begin with can come into play as Companions, at least.

colonist

Speaking of Companions, I may change something to make it easier for them to come into play... So far, they haven't at all (and from what I've read from other game sessions where Companions are involved, they don't come into play very often, either). That's partly from not remembering that they are available, but it may be that obtaining them should be more attractive and easier. For now, though, I'm not changing that.

I've reverted two of the minions (red and green) back to their normal base game abilities (i.e. red causes taints when 3 are present, green comes out more frequently), without the extra abilities I had added. As it was, I often forgot to check for the extra ability for the green minions (if there are two of them in a location during the Night phase, roll a die and add a 3rd if a 1 or 2 is rolled), so it's just as well to leave that out. Plus, those things definitely added to the difficulty, especially the red minion ability where they gained +1 to hit per taint. Considering red minions are more likely to be where taints are, anyway, it made them really hard to deal with. I also reduced the black minion ability to where it just nabs a Hero card from you, not in any order of preference (Special card, Eagle card, etc.). I do like the blue minion ability as it is, where they are 4+ to hit if there are 3, 5+ to hit if there are 2, and 6+ to hit if there's just one of them. That adds a nice tactical consideration where you really want the opportunity to attack them when there are three, and try to use re-roll abilities or Spam tokens to finish them off when you can at that strength. And yes, when there's only 1 they are really tough to get rid of, but the balance is that there's only 1 of them there, so it's not quite as threatening (unless it happens to be with a General that you're trying to kill!).

Speaking of Spam, I've changed that a little, so now each time a General moves, you add one Spam token to Camelot (as usual) and also add a Spam token to one of the locations with a treasure chest (players' choice), if it doesn't already have Spam there. I was looking at the board and disappointed that those treasure chests had no function, and I think the Spam tokens will fit just nicely over them. Plus, I think more of them in the game is necessary for the Knights. It's possible that I may change that again to where during setup, you place one Spam token on each location with a treasure chest, and then just one in Camelot each time a General moves. That way, it seeds the board with some extra Spam to begin with, but only one comes out each time a General moves. Hmmm, I think I might like that method better. Anyway, you can play it either way, but I may change that again for the next version.

colonist

One thing I really like as it is are the Supporting Roles. They definitely have some impact and add some difficulty (I got hosed pretty badly one game by the Spanish Inquisition), but I'm not changing anything there because I like the effects and how they work. Generally speaking, the effects are mild, but considering there are always one or two of them in the game, they can be a pain. The Three-Headed Knight, for example, might be no big deal if he comes out in a location with one Knight and that Knight happens to get away from them on the first roll, but in one game, it came out right after I defeated a General with all 4 Knights present, and so all of them had to avoid it and I lost a few precious actions trying to "run away!" from it. Same thing with the Knights Who Say "Ni!" It could be easy to finish that Shrubbery Quest in a turn or two and not take too much of a hit for it, or it could be difficult and end up being quite a pain. But I really like how these function, regardless.

Well actually, speaking of the Supporting Roles, there is one change for version 3.0. I did get rid of the Questions Three cards and have stuck with the newer dice roll version of the Bridge Keeper. I like the Questions Three cards in theory, and in a face-to-face game they might be fun to use... But once you use them, then you'll know the answers (if you don't already) and that will essentially be it for their usefulness. With the new version, using the dice rolls and the Knights' intelligence ratings, there will always be the chance that a particular Knight will fail something, and I love that it's possible (though unlikely) that a Knight could be dumb enough to get their own name wrong.

It may seem like a harsh penalty to be killed if you happen to fail one of the questions, but that's why it's a good idea to have some Spam on hand for a re-roll or two. And for that third question, you can always play it up as in the movie and ask whatever silly question you want. In any case, version 2.1 and the Artscow deck still includes the Questions Three cards and the original version of the Bridge Keeper, so you can always use them if you want.

-------------------------------

Regardless of losing horribly, I must say it is really fun to play DOTR using this theme. I'm looking forward to playing this sometime with my game group and running a session or two at a convention.

Edited Fri May 27, 2011 3:43 pm
Posted Fri May 27, 2011 3:41 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Bob Marso

(bobm174)

United States

Oregon

Hi Eric. Thank you for posting this variant. Couple of questions:
In your variant, can a Hero recruit more then one companion at a time?
Know in Richard's "Charge of the Wolf Riders" variant you can but
wasn't sure if the companions work exactly the same in your variant?

So as far as win loss conditions: You can only win if King Arthur completes
the King Arthur quest and can lose all the standard ways per the original
DOTR rules, is that correct? What if King Arthur dies, is that an automatic
loss?

Thanks,

Bob

Posted Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:10 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

♫ Eric Herman ♫

(Grudunza)

United States
West Richland
Washington

I like elephants. I like how they swing through trees.

Multiple Companions is fine.

The Holy Grail quest is just meant to be an additional way to win, not the only way (although I suppose that would be more thematic).

Posted Thu Jun 23, 2011 2:29 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

Dan Conley

(yosemite)

United States
Enon
Ohio

My pic. of the statue in Boston honoring Robert Gould Shaw and the 54th Mass. Regiment. The movie "Glory" is a must-see!

Dude, I am STILL laughing! Great stuff! THANKS!!!

Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 1:30 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

♫ Eric Herman ♫

(Grudunza)

United States
West Richland
Washington

I like elephants. I like how they swing through trees.

Version 3.1 posted. Will update later with notes about the changes as well as updated links for the Artscow deck and album.

Posted Sun Aug 21, 2011 6:21 am
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote

♫ Eric Herman ♫

(Grudunza)

United States
West Richland
Washington

I like elephants. I like how they swing through trees.

New in version 3.1:

A few minor changes to various things... nothing major. The game works well as it is, but I can't resist tweaking some things now and then.

There are two new Companions: Witch and The Minstrels (who start with Sir Robin).

I put the Questions Three cards back into the PDF. They still wouldn't be my preference to use, but they're available, at least. The character sheets now have an icon with a head and a number. The color of the head is the character's favorite color (if using the Questions Three method for the Bridge Keeper) and the number is their Intelligence (if using the other Bridge Keeper version).

I made a full Artscow deck for this. Some things are not necessary at all... There are character cards and General cards, and you're probably better just printing them from the PDF so they're in the style of the original game. There are also two different versions of each minion type (harder, easier), and cards to use for the Black Knights' limbs. All of that stuff is not really that necessary to have, but I had to fill out 54 cards, so there you have it. Actually, I do like the idea of cards for the different minion types, so you could randomly pick one of each type and end up with a mix of easier/harder ones to play with.

Here's the link for the full deck: http://www.artscow.com/gallery/card/monty-python-and-the-def...

And here's the Artscow album, if you want to use individual cards to fill out a deck of your own: http://www.artscow.com/ShareAlbum.aspx?Key=s320xgdi

Posted Mon Aug 22, 2011 7:34 pm
- Choose your Dice
  - d4
  - d6
  - d8
  - d10
  - d12
  - d20
  - d100
  - Help
  - Roll
  - Comment (Optional)
- Reply
- Quote