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May 29, 2011
B17QotS_Alternate_Random_Event_&_Mechcanical_Falure_Chart_V2-2.pdf (157 KB) (Log in or Register to download.)
Version 2.1, My New Random Event Table for more options in your games. A modified version of Random Events and Mechanical Failures incorporating many new ideas.
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Jim P
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This file is a modification of the optional rule for “RANDOM EVENTS.” This file replaces the #2 event for “Engine Failure” with a modified “Mechanical Failure” chart that showed up in “The GENERAL” Vol.24, No.6 - Theater Modifications article. I have reworked the original “Mechanical Failure” Chart to better fit the random event chart. Removing items that would be duplicates and adding items that make more sense. Also I have redistributed the positions to lessen the impact of an Electrical Failure. This game is hard enough.

This setup utilizes the original random charts percentage of risk, with the added flavor of the “Mechanical Failure” charts fluff. Instead of rolling every turn for the Mechanical Failure, as in the article, this event only shows up if you roll for a random event and then roll snake eyes.

Please give it a try, if you like it give a thumbs up and comment on the file page what you like best. If you have an idea on how to make it better, please comment here too and I could add your idea to the chart. If you find an error or don’t like the chart, also comment so I can improve the chart.

Hope you find this chart useful, Enjoy!
Jim P cool

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  • Edited Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:33 am
  • Posted Mon Jun 6, 2011 11:36 pm
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David Grabiner
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Questions and suggested modifications:

Mechanical failure of one engine should have the same effect as shell-induced failure; it should not force the B-17 out of formation unless the prop is not feathered or the B-17 is carrying bombs, and should not require the B-17 to spend two turns in a zone unless the prop is not feathered or a second engine is out. Thus:

Oil pump failure: leak forces the engine to be shut off on the next turn; see Engines Out.

Turbo-supercharger failure: if the B-17 jettisons its bombs (or is already in the target zone and drops them normally at the end of the turn), it may shut off the engine with no supercharger and proceed with one engine out; see Engines Out. If the bomber drops out of formation, this engine is considered to be at half power; it is not considered to be out, but if two engines are at half power, treat as one engine out.

Engine failure: if the engine is restarted at half power, it is not considered to be out. If two engines are at half power, treat as one engine out.

Non-engine suggestions:

Turret failure: The B-17 should not be allowed to abort. (That is, if the B-17 chooses to abort, the mission does not count.)

Bomb release failure: No effect if the bomb bay doors jam before the bomb run, whether before or after the failure. If the B-17 aborts the mission for some other reason and the bomb bay doors are still operational, the release failure takes effect when there is an attempt to jettison the bombs.

Electrical system: If the pilot and copilot are able to control the plane but the engineer is seriously wounded or KIA, the crew may bailout on Table G-6 rather than G-7, or (if in Zone 2) the pilot and copilot may carry the plane one zone further and the pilot may try to land it at -11. On the extra segment, the B-17 is out of formation and cannot take evasive action, but if it was in formation before losing the electrical system, the radio out modifier does not apply.

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  • Posted Tue Jun 7, 2011 2:45 am
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Jim P
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Dave thank you for your suggestions, these are all good points that require clarification. I will remark after each entry.

First this "Random Events Table" was designed to help incorporate the mechanical failure chart from the article THEATER MODIFICATIONS: More Expansions for B-17 in "the General; Volume -24: Issue -6 by John E. Ockelmann. The thought behind combining them is to prevent this chart from becoming overwhelming. The original article had you rolling every zone (2D6 of 12) for a possible mechanical failure event. This variant incorporates the interesting events of this article without the fear of it trashing your plane in every zone.

David Grabiner wrote:
Questions and suggested modifications:

Mechanical failure of one engine should have the same effect as shell-induced failure; it should not force the B-17 out of formation unless the prop is not feathered or the B-17 is carrying bombs, and should not require the B-17 to spend two turns in a zone unless the prop is not feathered or a second engine is out. Thus:


As none of your comments are phrased as a question, I assume this first paragraph is your question. This catastrophic failure of any one engine was part of the original article. I had thought of modifying the result but in the end decided to keep it as originally written. My thoughts were that the B-17's engine was running extremely rough or leaking a fluid that makes it prudent to leave the formation to protect the others in the squadron. Maybe the pilot and copilot can't make out what is wrong, so the leave the formation to concentrate on the malfunction and not have to worry about crashing into their squadron mates. Now if this does not suit a large number of players I can change it to be more intone with the "Blue Chart."


David Grabiner wrote:
Oil pump failure: leak forces the engine to be shut off on the next turn; see Engines Out.


Good catch here. I will add to the variant and you will see it on next release.

David Grabiner wrote:
Turbo-supercharger failure: if the B-17 jettisons its bombs (or is already in the target zone and drops them normally at the end of the turn), it may shut off the engine with no supercharger and proceed with one engine out; see Engines Out. If the bomber drops out of formation, this engine is considered to be at half power; it is not considered to be out, but if two engines are at half power, treat as one engine out.


This one again is structured after the original article. My idea here was the same as my answer above, though your observation may be more conducive to changing so it match’s the "Blue Chart."

David Grabiner wrote:
Engine failure: if the engine is restarted at half power, it is not considered to be out. If two engines are at half power, treat as one engine out.


Here too I followed original article. Though this is a good point, and more true to life, I think it should stay as due to complexity reasons. Trying to remember all the things currently in the game is taxing enough. Adding this level of detail could fall through the cracks and drive player’s nuts after the mission. “OH &$%# I forgot that I had TWO engines at half power, what if I had remembered…” Leaving it as is works for me right now. You can always modify to suit your game taste if you wish.


David Grabiner wrote:
Non-engine suggestions:

Turret failure: The B-17 should not be allowed to abort. (That is, if the B-17 chooses to abort, the mission does not count.)


Once more this is after the General article. Though after rereading my entry, I see it sounds as if any powered turret failure warrants the possibility of an abort. In the original article the Top and Ball turrets were separate events and only the ball turret had this note. I will revise my entry to reflect this. I can see a pilot, in the early stages of the mission, aborting due to a ball turret failure. With the gunner trapped in the turret he would be dead if circumstances required them to bail out. The other two turrets don’t have this worry.

Also this article didn’t include the B-17G chin turret. I felt that it was similar to the top turret and will have the same modifications.

David Grabiner wrote:
Bomb release failure: No effect if the bomb bay doors jam before the bomb run, whether before or after the failure. If the B-17 aborts the mission for some other reason and the bomb bay doors are still operational, the release failure takes effect when there is an attempt to jettison the bombs.


This might be a useful note. I figured that this was evident but might be good to add if space is available.

David Grabiner wrote:
Electrical system: If the pilot and copilot are able to control the plane but the engineer is seriously wounded or KIA, the crew may bailout on Table G-6 rather than G-7, or (if in Zone 2) the pilot and copilot may carry the plane one zone further and the pilot may try to land it at -11. On the extra segment, the B-17 is out of formation and cannot take evasive action, but if it was in formation before losing the electrical system, the radio out modifier does not apply.


Good catch here. I will mull this one over and see if I can fit it in the remaining space. I’d like to keep this one so you can print on both sides of one page.

Dave, Again, Great stuff. Thank you for your time & effort to make this a better variant.

Jim P cool
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  • Posted Sat Jun 11, 2011 6:37 pm
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jasta6 wrote:
David Grabiner wrote:
Non-engine suggestions:

Turret failure: The B-17 should not be allowed to abort. (That is, if the B-17 chooses to abort, the mission does not count.)


Once more this is after the General article. Though after rereading my entry, I see it sounds as if any powered turret failure warrants the possibility of an abort. In the original article the Top and Ball turrets were separate events and only the ball turret had this note. I will revise my entry to reflect this. I can see a pilot, in the early stages of the mission, aborting due to a ball turret failure. With the gunner trapped in the turret he would be dead if circumstances required them to bail out. The other two turrets don’t have this worry.


However, the rules for B-17 do not allow an abort if the ball turret mechanism is inoperable due to shell damage. The pilot might choose to abort (and is allowed to abort at any time), but the mission does not count. Therefore, I would expect the same rule to apply if the ball turret jammed due to mechanical problems.
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  • Posted Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:25 pm
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Jim P
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David Grabiner wrote:
jasta6 wrote:
David Grabiner wrote:
Non-engine suggestions:

Turret failure: The B-17 should not be allowed to abort. (That is, if the B-17 chooses to abort, the mission does not count.)


Once more this is after the General article. Though after rereading my entry, I see it sounds as if any powered turret failure warrants the possibility of an abort. In the original article the Top and Ball turrets were separate events and only the ball turret had this note. I will revise my entry to reflect this. I can see a pilot, in the early stages of the mission, aborting due to a ball turret failure. With the gunner trapped in the turret he would be dead if circumstances required them to bail out. The other two turrets don’t have this worry.


However, the rules for B-17 do not allow an abort if the ball turret mechanism is inoperable due to shell damage. The pilot might choose to abort (and is allowed to abort at any time), but the mission does not count. Therefore, I would expect the same rule to apply if the ball turret jammed due to mechanical problems.


True it is not in the "Original" rules, but it was part of the "official" variant in the General. I would think that if it was in the General Magazine then there is some expectation of being official format, at least for that variant. Since I am utilizing their variant for the basis of my variant, would it not be logical to use it here?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I am justifying its use here. I don't see a historical reason that this wouldn't be a reason for aborting, and a good enough one to still get credit. I'm not sure if the USAAF would count this as a mission or not. In my latest reading there were some questionable aborts that were not punished after the August Schwinefurt mission. I don't know if they were credited, but there was animosity for these aborts.

I'll have to think on this one. Your point is valid. It is not allowed in the main rules, but I believe the General was the "official" outlet for tweaking rules for TAHGC games.

Thanks again for your input!
Jim P cool
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  • Posted Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:39 am
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jasta6 wrote:
True it is not in the "Original" rules, but it was part of the "official" variant in the General. I would think that if it was in the General Magazine then there is some expectation of being official format, at least for that variant. Since I am utilizing their variant for the basis of my variant, would it not be logical to use it here?


I don't have the official General article, so I will accept that.

Quote:
I'm not saying you are wrong, I am justifying its use here. I don't see a historical reason that this wouldn't be a reason for aborting, and a good enough one to still get credit. I'm not sure if the USAAF would count this as a mission or not. In my latest reading there were some questionable aborts that were not punished after the August Schwinefurt mission. I don't know if they were credited, but there was animosity for these aborts.


Even the original B-17 rules allow the pilot to abort at any time for any reason, and given that Schweinfurt was a death trap, I could see pilots aborting for reasons that would make the run more dangerous but not impossible.
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  • Posted Mon Jun 13, 2011 1:10 am
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