The Hotness
Games|People|Company
Dominion: Dark Ages
Fantastiqa
Mage Knight: Board Game
Mice and Mystics
Eclipse
Among the Stars
Collapsible D: The Final Minutes of the Titanic
Thunder Road
Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small
Lords of Waterdeep
Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)
Dungeon Fighter
Virgin Queen
Skyline
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)
Twilight Struggle
Dominion
Android: Netrunner
1989: Dawn of Freedom
Agricola
The Big Bang Theory: The Party Game
Total War
Arkham Horror
7 Wonders
Village
Dungeon Command: Sting of Lolth
Wrong Chemistry
The Castles of Burgundy
Ace of Spies
War of the Ring
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
Alien Frontiers
Ora et Labora
Le Havre
Kingdom Builder
Twilight Imperium (third edition)
Trajan
Glory to Rome
The Swarm
Race for the Galaxy
Caylus
Battlestar Galactica
Tammany Hall
Small World
Zombicide
Hawaii
Quarriors! Quarmageddon
Power Grid
Space Alert
%name%
Ten Year Old Euros that Are Still Better than Most of the New Hotness
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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Yes, the title says it all. There has been a lot of back and forth about Kickstarter, the new hotness, etc. Well, as a hobby gamer who only recently got into the hobby about two years ago, I've lately found that my new hotness are those evergreen titles that are rarely spoken about. This list will include games that are still readily available after ten years that still can hold their own against the newer, more complex, more thematic games with cooler components. Two things I want to clarify before I begin though:

-I am primarily a Euro gamer, which is why this list is devoted to Euros. Nothing against Wargames and Thematic titles.

-I am only listing titles I have played. If you see a glaring omission, it is probably because I haven't played that game, so you can feel free to add it.

With that in mind, which do you think are better, the evergreens or the new hotness?
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1. Board Game: Tikal [Average Rating:7.40 Overall Rank:111]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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This game was the inspiration for this Geeklist. After purchasing, playing, and loving this title, I started focusing quite a bit on those evergreens.
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Christine Biancheria
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
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This one, for me, shows its age a bit. The game is good and certainly looks great, but it offers too many action points per turn and is a bit of an AP trap.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:19 am
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Robert Zaleski
United States
Wintersville
Ohio
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FezAZ wrote:
But this one is fiddly and slow...


Maybe I need to give my group a break and we're not the slowest gaming group on the planet This one has never felt drawn out to us, unless we start it after 11 PM, in which case we've learned everything becomes tortuous as we're trying to finish afterwards
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:13 pm
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Take joy from you wins; take lessons from your losses.
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    You people all need to relax more. There are important issues of the day to be decided between turns and many, many brands of beer and whisky that you have not taken the time to try.

             S.


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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:18 pm
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Todd
United States
Phoenix
Arizona
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Excellent point.


I was thinking about that very thing last night as I was waiting for my turn in a never-ending 4 player game of Mage Knight: Board Game. Seriously lasted over 5 hours. Whisky would have made everything better.
 
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 9:35 pm
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Zuju Beln
United States

California
Re; AP Trap - Nahh, that always comes down to who you play with; never was an issue for us and always found it enjoyable... You probably need to use a timer if this one causes AP... Or rotate who you play with... :-)
 
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  • Posted Sun Feb 12, 2012 7:30 am
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2. Board Game: Puerto Rico [Average Rating:8.26 Overall Rank:3]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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This game is now ten years old, so it counts for the list. It definitely isn't my favorite, but it is number three all time according to BGG rankings.
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Dan Poole
United States
Goldsboro
North Carolina
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I agree. I still enjoy this over many new games
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:41 am
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Linda Baldwin
United States
White Plains
New York
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That said, Vanessa looks pretty darn good in a short skirt. (I had front seats at a show of hers recently, and I can assure you she's in excellent shape.) I suspect we might find a 'Geek or two who LOVE to go toe to toe with her.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 10:15 pm
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William Donks
Netherlands
Sprang-Capelle
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It's been too long since I played this "evergreen".
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 9:07 pm
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Christopher Bartlett
United States
Midlothian - Richmond
Virginia
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Carmilla wrote:
That said, Vanessa looks pretty darn good in a short skirt. (I had front seats at a show of hers recently, and I can assure you she's in excellent shape.) I suspect we might find a 'Geek or two who LOVE to go toe to toe with her.


I prefer toe to heel, personally.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:57 pm
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Jae
United States
Bryan
TX
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happyjosiah wrote:
If it is a group of COMPETENT players, the seating order shouldn't matter.


You are right, it shouldn't, but it does. That is why I no longer enjoy it.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:13 pm
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3. Board Game: The Settlers of Catan [Average Rating:7.50 Overall Rank:85]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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This is still bringing in as many new gamers into the hobby as any other title on the market
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Dave Lartigue
United States
Springfield
Massachusetts
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It really irks me how fashionable it's become lately to hate on Settlers.
  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:13 pm
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Geert Vinaskov
Belgium
Rijkevorsel
Antwerpen
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It's a good game, but there's so many games that I would play over it. Unlike Carcassonne and Ticket to Ride, it doesn't hold as much repeat play for me.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:19 pm
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Andrew MacLeod
Canada
London
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Geert Vinaskov wrote:
It's a good game, but there's so many games that I would play over it. Unlike Carcassonne and Ticket to Ride, it doesn't hold as much repeat play for me.


Weird! For me, I'd much rather play Settlers over Carc and TtR! Not that I want to play Settlers all the time, by any stretch of the imagination.....
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:09 pm
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Joseph
United States

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First love syndrome. Once you've gained a little bit of experience, your eyes are opened to the possibilities of more complex and satisfying relationships.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:04 am
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Take joy from you wins; take lessons from your losses.
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dboeren wrote:
but the state of the art in boardgames has moved on.


    The state of the art in boardgames has moved, but not moved on. The majority of games being produced today are designed to be lighter, quicker, and less volatile. If light, quick, and dependable are your kind of thing then you're happy with newer games. The publishers are happier too -- they're cheaper to produce and easier to up-sell with.

    Settlers in spite of an exceptionally simple ruleset produces a more nuanced game where social skills may make the difference between winning and losing. To me that's good gaming because it means there's more complexity at the table.

             S.


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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:27 pm
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4. Board Game: Carcassonne [Average Rating:7.46 Overall Rank:89]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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This is still the gold standard when it comes to tile laying games.
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quelf elf
Spain

North Pole
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Bronze standard on a good day. It's ok, but all three of these tile-layers are better..
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 4:35 am
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William Donks
Netherlands
Sprang-Capelle
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Although I played it often, it's not really my cup of tea.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 9:09 pm
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Florida
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joebelanger wrote:
Was this game ever enjoyable? Another stillbirth for me.


+1
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:24 pm
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Atticus Gifford
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Venice
California
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My first! I still like to play it, but only two players and fast.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:36 am
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Drew Hicks
United States

North Carolina
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Adding the first two expansions ("Inns & Cathedrals" and "Traders & Builders") makes this game really excellent. Without it, I agree that it can feel sort of blah.
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:02 am
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5. Board Game: El Grande [Average Rating:7.89 Overall Rank:13]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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This is still the gold standard for area majority games.
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Kirk Thomas
United States
Kansas City
Missouri
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This is also my gold standard for having a blast even when I'm getting trounced.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:16 pm
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Jeff Forbes


New Hampshire
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dedindahed wrote:
jforbes wrote:

El Grands is bloated?!? It is dry but I don't think that word means what you think it means.


You keep paraphrasing that line, but I don't think it's as funny as you think it is.

To clarify, I find El grande to contain the thought and decision level of 30 mins worth of area placement streched out over 2 hours, which is why I find it bloated and clunky, even thoiugh the rules are straightforward.


I'm not sure that I've ever paraphrased that line, and in all honesty I don't find it all that hilarious myself. I just figured it was an appropriate use for it.

I can see not wanting to play El Grande if it takes 2 hours. It's maybe ~75-90 minutes or so when I play it with five, and is about right at that length.

Then again, when my group plays it, it's a light, quick game by most of our standards, so it's not like we're in the mindset of turning it in to a brain burning monster. It's rare that someone freezes up and grinds the game to a halt.
 
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  • Edited Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:54 am
  • Posted Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:52 am
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Take joy from you wins; take lessons from your losses.
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jforbes wrote:
It's rare that someone freezes up and grinds the game to a halt.


    Someone freezing up in El Grande is an opportunity to bend them towards the solution that works in your own favor. That's good gaming right there.

             S.

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  • Posted Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:16 pm
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David Winter
United Kingdom
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jforbes wrote:

I'm not sure that I've ever paraphrased that line, and in all honesty I don't find it all that hilarious myself. I just figured it was an appropriate use for it.

I can see not wanting to play El Grande if it takes 2 hours. It's maybe ~75-90 minutes or so when I play it with five, and is about right at that length.

Then again, when my group plays it, it's a light, quick game by most of our standards, so it's not like we're in the mindset of turning it in to a brain burning monster. It's rare that someone freezes up and grinds the game to a halt.


I thought you were deliberately quoting the typical line from "the princess bride" which seems pretty common round these parts. (If you haven't seen it, I wouldn't bother unless you have young kids who might enjoy it)

I'm in complete agreement that El Grande is a light game.

People claiming it's a deep, meaty brainburner are the ones I don't understand.
 
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  • Posted Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:48 pm
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Jeff Forbes


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I was aware of it, but I've probably done it once or twice in my life before. It's not a regular thing for me to do. And the movie isn't very good, either. arrrh

dedindahed wrote:
jforbes wrote:

I'm not sure that I've ever paraphrased that line, and in all honesty I don't find it all that hilarious myself. I just figured it was an appropriate use for it.

I can see not wanting to play El Grande if it takes 2 hours. It's maybe ~75-90 minutes or so when I play it with five, and is about right at that length.

Then again, when my group plays it, it's a light, quick game by most of our standards, so it's not like we're in the mindset of turning it in to a brain burning monster. It's rare that someone freezes up and grinds the game to a halt.


I thought you were deliberately quoting the typical line from "the princess bride" which seems pretty common round these parts. (If you haven't seen it, I wouldn't bother unless you have young kids who might enjoy it)

I'm in complete agreement that El Grande is a light game.

People claiming it's a deep, meaty brainburner are the ones I don't understand.
 
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  • Posted Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:37 pm
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6. Board Game: Cosmic Encounter [Average Rating:7.53 Overall Rank:84]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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Tom Vasel's #1 game of all time, and one of the inspirations for Magic: the Gathering.
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Wendell
United States
Arlington
Virginia
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Great game though I wouldn't call it a euro!
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:02 pm
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Simon Blome
Germany
Herne
NRW
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Ok guys, let's end this ameritrash vs. eurogame thing once and for all!

Cosmic Encounter is ameritrash. Eurogames are better. Period.

Everyone agrees? Perfect! cool
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  • Posted Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:13 pm
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Missoula
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BenOni wrote:
Ok guys, let's end this ameritrash vs. eurogame thing once and for all!

Cosmic Encounter is ameritrash. Eurogames are better. Period.

Everyone agrees? Perfect! cool
'

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  • Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012 1:49 am
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Jason Aemisegger
United States
Glen Carbon
Illinois
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Really I don't think I could have said it better with Less words than Joe. Well Played Joe. Well Played.

 
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  • Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012 3:40 pm
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Gus Esteban Ruiz
Spain

BenOni wrote:
Ok guys, let's end this ameritrash vs. eurogame thing once and for all!

Cosmic Encounter is ameritrash. Eurogames are better. Period.

Everyone agrees? Perfect! cool


Is that an atack? Let's negociate.



I'll never get tired of CE. Never.
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  • Edited Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:59 pm
  • Posted Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:57 pm
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7. Board Game: Ra [Average Rating:7.58 Overall Rank:52]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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Few games have such a unique auction system, and the set collection in this game is still the best, in my humble opinion
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Stephen Sanders
United States
Henderson
Texas
25% Scottish, 25% Dutch, 18% English, 15% Irish, 9% German, 5% French, 3% "Black Dutch" (?) = 100% American!
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Still in my top ten after six years. Still seems fresh after over 40 plays.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:54 am
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Justus Pang
United States
Houston
Texas
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bacusgod wrote:
Best auction game ever designed. Oh, the times. It makes one long for those days when the good Doctor was a great designer. He seems to be the living example of this GeekList's title... all of his 10+ year old games are way better than all of his recent ones.


Yeah that's exactly what I've been thinking while going through the list. Where has the good doctor gone!?!
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:31 am
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David Winter
United Kingdom
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This holds the unique position of "Euro auction game I don't hate" Probably due to the tile based bidding, alleviating the rich-get-richer syndrome seen in many auction games.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:22 am
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Sam Miller
United States
Williamsburg
Virginia
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After years of playing (and, I admit, enjoying) Razzia, the inferior re-themed version of Ra, I fell in love all over again with the iOS edition. This is what a Knizia game is all about.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:23 pm
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J. David Koch
United States
Indianapolis
Indiana
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RA!

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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:52 pm
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8. Board Game: Citadels [Average Rating:7.27 Overall Rank:143]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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This game still does role selection as well as any other, and the simple, yet effective tableau building with a card based system is the most fun I have personally played.
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Duane Padilla
United States
Antioch
California
My family just played this over the weekend. Great game, simple yet complex as you try to outthink your opponents without overthinking yourself into ruin!
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:05 am
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EXTRA AVOCADO!
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JohnnyDollar wrote:
abdiel wrote:


A great alternative to Citadels is the previously mentioned Witch's Brew. Though perhaps it suffers from the same problem. I should play randomly next time to find out.


I did try the "random" strategy with Witch's Brew, and I lost. It was a while ago, but I think it was a pretty bad loss.


You can totally random the first round, if you're feeling good, but after that it really does require a little bit of thinking- especially with all the open resources.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:25 am
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Jeff Forbes


New Hampshire
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The real secret is to appear to shuffle the deck and pick a guy at random - and have it be exactly who you want. arrrh
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 8:01 pm
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Andrew MacLeod
Canada
London
Ontario
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I like playing role selection games, in spite of the fact that Puerto Rico and Citadels were the first role selection games I played.whistle
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 11:36 pm
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Take joy from you wins; take lessons from your losses.
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    I love Faidutti's stuff but this one just doesn't ring the bell for me.

             S.


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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:32 pm
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9. Board Game: Tigris & Euphrates [Average Rating:7.88 Overall Rank:15]
Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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This, in my view, is the poster child for how a Euro will handle a Civilization game with conflict.
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I think that calling this a civilization game is stretching the meaning of "civ game" past its breaking point.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 9:47 pm
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iStitch
United States
Kalamazoo
Michigan
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This was just all kinds of not fun for me. I'd try it again, but I'd also be amazed if it managed to change my impression of the game.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:11 pm
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Justus Pang
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I finally played it in person in the middle of last year. Quite a good game....though I haven't played it since. There's something quite beautfuil about the rise and fall of the different families and kingdoms. Square grids seem to lend themselves to that...Acquire and Alien City both come ti mind....
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:35 am
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Philip Thomas
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First game on the list which might qualify for me (mmm...shiny new hotness...mmm)
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:33 pm
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Edwin Nealley
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Ardmore
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As far as theme goes here, it doesn't really seem to make a lot of low level difference whether you collect numbers of tokens to conquer areas and score points (cubes), or take cards weighing the expense of moving up in the line and track with 50 different counters, or take areas with different 'civilization' strengths - these are all somewhat cold methods of implementing the theme of growing a civilization to me. The only method(s) that makes a lot of sense thematically to Civ games are out and out wargame (numbers/tactics/strength), or trading- everything else is someone's cold themeless way of rendering Civ. I will grant you that other than numeric strength, that accumulating cultural strengths and advances is not well themed out here- that is something that buying/ stealing/ otherwise obtaining a card that changes your abilities does do better...
 
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  • Posted Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:46 am
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10. Board Game: Medici [Average Rating:7.17 Overall Rank:232]
Patrick C.
United States
Milford
New Hampshire
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Labyrinth: The War On Terror is historically inaccurate & politically biased. It's the one popular game that violates BGG's requirements to keep politics out of gen. discussion. And yet it receives special treatment =US-centric views of this site.
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Maybe not the best auction game, but it beats many of the most recent releases such as Cargo Noir. It doesn't buckle under its own weight when played with the maximum number of players like CN.
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not the best auction game? this game is fantastic. i agree it might not be THE BEST (though maybe it is), but if it isn't it's near the top. This game can get very tense.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 9:35 pm
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Adrian Hague
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Christ, but the artwork in this game is awful.
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  • Edited Wed Feb 8, 2012 10:59 am
  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 10:58 am
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Patrick C.
United States
Milford
New Hampshire
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Labyrinth: The War On Terror is historically inaccurate & politically biased. It's the one popular game that violates BGG's requirements to keep politics out of gen. discussion. And yet it receives special treatment =US-centric views of this site.
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AdrianPHague wrote:
Christ, but the artwork in this game is awful.


The Rio Grande 1st edition isn't too bad. And the French edition is gorgeous. But yeah, the most recent 2nd edition is blah.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 1:13 am
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Steve Wagner
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This and Modern Art are both pure auction games that I never want to play again. Not only is this game bland with theme, but it just doesn't feel fun at all.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 1:26 am
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Brendan Tracey
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travvller wrote:
AdrianPHague wrote:
Christ, but the artwork in this game is awful.


The Rio Grande 1st edition isn't too bad. And the French edition is gorgeous. But yeah, the most recent 2nd edition is blah.



Maybe the artwork in the Rio Grande 1st edition isn't bad, but the rest of the design is awful. The colors are too similar, the numbers are too close (2,3 and 5 all get confused), they label all of the odd numbers on the track instead of the 5s, it's just terrible. This is the only board game where I took a marker to the board to make it playable.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 8:43 pm
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11. Board Game: Samurai [Average Rating:7.48 Overall Rank:81]
Mark Klassen
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This is a superb quick little game.
Lynette
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Richland
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Love this game! Literally over a 100 plays.

While people talk about 3 being the sweet spot, I found it was down right amazing as a two player with only one rule change to minimize the start player advantage.

Tight intense play, that doesn't get old.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:14 pm
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Mark Klassen
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Scoring is genius.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:01 pm
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Stven Carlberg
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I like it, but I would have never thought of calling it "quick."
 
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:13 pm
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ssmooth wrote:
I like it, but I would have never thought of calling it "quick."


It usually plays in 30 minutes with 3 or 4 players. With two we easily play twice in 45 minutes. I'd call that quick.
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  • Edited Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:51 pm
  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:50 pm
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Lynette
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manchuwok wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
Love this game! Literally over a 100 plays.

While people talk about 3 being the sweet spot, I found it was down right amazing as a two player with only one rule change to minimize the start player advantage.

Tight intense play, that doesn't get old.


Now I'm curious. What is that start player advantage, and what is the rule change you used?

I've played it about 25 times only.


I am hesitant to quote exact numbers because I didn't do the statistical analysis or come up with the variant.

Justin
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Is the brilliant person who did the work, I think along with

Massimo B.
Italy
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Back when you could play this on Mabiweb it was offered as the "Astroglide variant" option when you set up two player games.

But if I recall correctly that when playing 2 players, when they did the stats over the thousands of 2 player games played, the start players won over 55% of the time.

To fix this they removed the #2 ship from the start players tiles.

Again, if I recall correctly the start player still had an advantage but it wasn't quite as overpowering.

And looking back at my stats... I played 150 two player games, just on Mabiweb. Man I miss getting to play this every week. cry In my gaming group it maybe hits the table a few times a year.

This is a brilliantly designed game.
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  • Posted Thu Mar 1, 2012 8:14 am
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12. Board Game: Java [Average Rating:7.08 Overall Rank:313]
Mark Klassen
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Another of Kramer's Mask Trilogy. Though a little hard to find, it's so worth it if you like melting your brain.
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Stephen Smith
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Columbus
Mississippi
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I prefer this one to Tikal.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 12:26 am
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Francis K. Lalumiere
Canada
Brossard
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Java is the ultimate AP machine.

I used to have it set up on the corner table in my office, and a few coworkers and I would play a game that would last about a week. Whenever one of the players walked by and saw that it was his turn, he'd take it, sometimes inviting someone else over to participate in a festival. Then he'd just walk away, and eventually the next player would stop by to take his turn.
(We used playing cards to represent each player -- if your card was face up on the table, it meant it was your go!)

And honestly? I wouldn't play it any other way.
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  • Edited Tue Feb 7, 2012 7:55 pm
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Greg W.
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North Attleboro
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I always feel like I'm failing the visual-spacial section of an IQ test when I play this.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 8:50 pm
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Atilla Kármán
Hungary
Gyál
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I finally managed to play (and get) this game, but for the first 3 plays I don't see why it's called a brain-burner. Maybe it'll reveals itself after a couple of plays.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:54 am
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This one is still my number 1 favorite.
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:29 pm
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13. Board Game: The Princes of Florence [Average Rating:7.75 Overall Rank:26]
Mark Klassen
Canada
Mission
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Another Kramer, and this one is so much fun. Way more interesting than most new games.
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Daniel W.
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Portland
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I do want to try this one out.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 9:39 pm
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David Winter
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Definitely showing it's age. Suffers from "poor internal balance so use auctions" syndrome, mostly depends on choosing a strategy before the game starts and more or less following it step by step, resulting in dry procedural play.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:26 am
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Yours Truly,
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aaarg_ink wrote:
Not fond of a game which has a nice personal player grid to play your pieces and half the table doesn't have more than a couple spaces filled on it by the end of the game.

Weird, in my one 4-player try of this, we all had a bunch of pieces. I had the builder so I had at least 4 buildings, plus the park and I think the forest.

aaarg_ink wrote:

Might be a graphical thing or something cause I despise the font also.

I think it was the RGG edition I played. I actually found the font compelling and attractive, I love it. Combined with the "artistic sketchbook" style of the boards and tiles, I felt like I was playing something out of a period-era notebook.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:54 pm
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Sam Miller
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Williamsburg
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I still enjoy this, and I think it exemplifies one of the basic mechanics I love in a lot of euros: the delicate balance between planning and improvisation.
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  • Edited Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:29 pm
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Rich P
United Kingdom
Sheffield
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abdiel wrote:
There are three primary forms of player interaction in PoF. First is the auction. Second is the race to acquire the items that you need from a limited common pool. Third is the contest of creating the best works.


I would suggest a fourth area of interaction: the desire for a symbiotic relationship with another player so that you can take advantage of Recruiters later in the game. It's useful to watch what other players are building and which works they are playing as this can have a bearing on when you should play specific works from your hand. You may want to hold off playing one of your works in case they can recruit it and get better use out of it than you.

The interaction in PoF is subtle, but it is there.
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  • Posted Sun Feb 12, 2012 4:54 pm
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14. Board Game: Union Pacific [Average Rating:7.35 Overall Rank:161]
Mark Klassen
Canada
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Great train game. This one has admittedly been reimplemented by Airlines Europe.
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Brian Homan
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I will still choose to play this over AE (and I own both), if time allows. One of my all-time favorites.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:22 pm
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David Boeren
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I've never heard of that house rule before, so I'm not sure how "standard" it is. Now that I have, I cannot fathom why you'd want to do that. Just because you feel like messing with it doesn't make the game flawed.

We played this just last night and nobody had any problems with it. Nor did the person with the most UP stock win (he came in 3rd). First place went to someone that kept a close eye on which railroads were the most valuable and did his best to maintain a position in a moderately diverse set of railroads without over-committing. 120-105-97-90.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 10:15 pm
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Warren Adams
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Liked it so much I got a copy and it is still in shrink.

So I can play it in years to come when all others are worn out.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 1:47 am
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Justus Pang
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senorcoo wrote:
Any game that requires tweaking to make it playable not broken is flawed and not worth my time.


Well if its been fixed to be freaking amazing, a house-ruled game would be well worth my time. Its annoying if a designer doesn't get it perfect at the start...but if the fix still works with the components that comes out of the box, then I'm all for it.

As for this item...I really need to try it out sometime. The airplanes don't compel me to purchase this game however...
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:43 am
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Michael Buccheri
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Glen Arm
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There are a few ways to fix this one.

1st problem is the 1st payout can come up to early. There are a few variants that address this.

The one that I like to use is the unlimited UP Shares variant, where they never run out.

It has been a long time since this one has made it to the table. I think for most of us Acquire scratches the same itch better than this one.

-M
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:34 pm
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15. Board Game: Mexica [Average Rating:7.06 Overall Rank:353]
Mark Klassen
Canada
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The final game in Kramer's Mask Trilogy. I love this one as well. All three of the games have quite a different feel to them.
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Bill Eldard
United States
Burke
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I've always thought this game was under-rated. I still like playing it.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 3:03 am
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I've played several "perfect or close to it" information games in my lifetime. This is probably the only one that I'll even consider playing nowadays.

I remember teaching a couple guys how to play this. The final score was (I think) 122-122-121. Some people don't like shared victories. I think they're AWESOME.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 9:43 pm
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EXTRA AVOCADO!
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I remember when RFTG was proclaimed to have "parasitic conflict". I remember thinking then that Lehmann never played Mexica. A+++ will play again.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:28 am
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16. Board Game: Pueblo [Average Rating:6.88 Overall Rank:512]
Mark Klassen
Canada
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British Columbia
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Yet another Kramer. This game is so devilishly tricky. I'd rather play it than many new games.
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Kirk Thomas
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Even in this list, this one misses out on the love - that's just not right! While not in my all-time Top 10 list, this one has always struck me as very clever and very unique.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 6:24 pm
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manchuwok wrote:
red_gamster wrote:
Awful, awful game. Luckily nobody asks for it anymore. A lot better abstracts out there.


Can't understand hate for this game. What elements did you find deficient?

The game play, or lack there of. It is a puzzle forced into a board game format. There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in it that holds my interest. It is not worth the investment of playing and I can find many better things to do with my time.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:00 pm
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OK, sounds like a personal preference vs anything about the game itself that is lacking.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:25 pm
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Adam Deverell
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Quote:
OK, sounds like a personal preference vs anything about the game itself that is lacking.


For sure, as others enjoyed it (although it never gets requested). I dislike puzzle games, and this one was especially frustrating and dull.

Regardless of personal preference, however, I can't see why this outshines new abstracts or puzzle-like games.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 11:18 pm
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Jae
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Bryan
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red_gamster wrote:
Quote:
OK, sounds like a personal preference vs anything about the game itself that is lacking.


For sure, as others enjoyed it (although it never gets requested). I dislike puzzle games, and this one was especially frustrating and dull.

Regardless of personal preference, however, I can't see why this outshines new abstracts or puzzle-like games.


There is actually player interaction instead of multi-player solitaire...
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  • Posted Sun Feb 12, 2012 5:46 pm
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17. Board Game: Taj Mahal [Average Rating:7.45 Overall Rank:109]
Mark Klassen
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I've only played it once so far, but this was quite an intriguing game. I believe it has more staying power than many of the newly released games.
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Brilliant auction mechanism, where you lose what's bid, it also a game about knowing when to quit when you are ahead AND knowing where to pick your fights. Trully shines with 5 players.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:12 pm
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Guan Yixin
China
Shanghai
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Eldard wrote:
Osiris Ra wrote:
Brilliant auction mechanism, where you lose what's bid, it also a game about knowing when to quit when you are ahead AND knowing where to pick your fights. Trully shines with 5 players.


I agree, although I think the optimum number of players is 4.

This is still my favorite Euro-game. It's a great melding of card and board game with great tension. I own over 40 Knizia games, and I think this is his masterpiece.


Fully agree with you.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 7:35 am
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Eldard wrote:
Osiris Ra wrote:
Brilliant auction mechanism, where you lose what's bid, it also a game about knowing when to quit when you are ahead AND knowing where to pick your fights. Trully shines with 5 players.


I agree, although I think the optimum number of players is 4.

This is still my favorite Euro-game. It's a great melding of card and board game with great tension. I own over 40 Knizia games, and I think this is his masterpiece.

Just when you thought it was safe to GeekBuddy someone over such a statement, you discover that they are already on your GB list.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 1:59 pm
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Adam Deverell
Australia
Melbourne
Victoria
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Another timeless Knizia. Incredibly difficult to master, tough decisions throughout - poker hand play ratchets up the tension. Brilliant game.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 1:00 am
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Bryan Maxwell
United States
Burtchville
Michigan
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This has sat unplayed on my shelf for over a year. I have yet to try Taj Mahal. I need to fix that.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 3:36 pm
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18. Board Game: Through the Desert [Average Rating:7.15 Overall Rank:198]
Mark Klassen
Canada
Mission
British Columbia
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More abstract than Euro, but this is still quite popular. Excellent game.
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Lynette
United States
Richland
Washington
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It was one of my "gateway" games. I love the depth and short playing time.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:15 pm
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Sandeep Kharkar
United States

Utah
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meh!snore
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 10:00 pm
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Take joy from you wins; take lessons from your losses.
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Meerkat wrote:
It was one of my "gateway" games. I love the depth and short playing time.


    Depth? It's a fun little game but this one is pretty straightforward.

    This game is in my wheelhouse due to my education and profession. The option set seems pretty doggone limited to me and it's rare there's a situation that doesn't have an obvious best response.

             S.


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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:36 pm
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Philip Honeybone
United Kingdom
Canterbury
Kent
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Good mechanics but not so good for the colour blind.
 
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 10:18 pm
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Lynette
United States
Richland
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Sagrilarus wrote:
Meerkat wrote:
It was one of my "gateway" games. I love the depth and short playing time.


    Depth? It's a fun little game but this one is pretty straightforward.

    This game is in my wheelhouse due to my education and profession. The option set seems pretty doggone limited to me and it's rare there's a situation that doesn't have an obvious best response.

             S.




Maybe it depends on who you are playing with. In general I play with a fairly smart and intense gamer group. And with so many ways to score points, many of which can come down to just one or two moves you let your opponents take without challenging/blocking them... trying to keep all the things you want to do going while still not letting any one person get a significant advantage locked in can be a challenge.

This complexity only goes up as the number of good players does.


But YMMV.
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  • Posted Sat Apr 21, 2012 8:26 pm
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19. Board Game: Chinatown [Average Rating:7.21 Overall Rank:231]
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Very elegant game, simple rules, brutal gameplay. That's the mark of a winner for me.
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Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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I really want to play this.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 10:07 pm
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Joe Thomas
United States
Coshocton
Ohio
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shieldwolf wrote:
Lords of Vegas makes me never want to go back and play this game ever again.

Lords of Vegas is alright, but the players interactions of Chinatown just can't be beat by it.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 7:59 am
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Zé Mário
Portugal
Senhora da Hora
Matosinhos
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Bohnanza, Santiago, Greed and Genoa are far more interesting negotiation games than this one, IMO.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 6:22 pm
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Jupiter Jones
United States
Orem
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Asur wrote:
Bohnanza, Santiago, Greed and Genoa are far more interesting negotiation games than this one, IMO.


Of those 4 I've only played Bohnanza, and I much prefer Chinatown.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:54 am
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C R
United States
Overland Park
Kansas
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How about I'm the Boss for a great (almost 20 year old) negotiation game?
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 7:54 pm
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20. Board Game: Botswana [Average Rating:6.62 Overall Rank:736]
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one of my favourite of knizia's light games, the new version is kind of silly but has nice toys. a really fun and quick stock game.
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John Farrell
Australia
Aspley
Queensland
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What people see in this is completely beyond me. I don't mind Knizia's Slam Dunk card game, but this is too much nothing.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:20 am
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Stven Carlberg
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Atlanta
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I only found out this week that this is yet another remake of Quandary, which apparently can no longer be found in the BGG database by looking up "Quandary." Too bad, as the luscious Milton Bradley edition is still highly sought after. I haven't seen Botswana, but I'd be very surprised if it were a better looking game than Quandary.
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  • Posted Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:59 pm
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21. Board Game: Modern Art [Average Rating:7.36 Overall Rank:118]
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When I said I wasn't sure Medici was the best auction game, this is what I was thinking might be. To me it's between these two. A fantastic game closed market auction game with various types of auctions, and a bit of luck in the cards.
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J M Duran
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El Paso
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My all time favorite game out of the 55000+ on the BGG database.

Its ugly, cheap components, photocopied rulebook stapled off center.

But, the gameplay is fantastic, and if call your auctions like an auctioneer, all the more fun.

A winner!
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:15 pm
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Bill Eldard
United States
Burke
Virginia
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I've always really liked Modern Art, but it isn't very popular in our group anymore. I think Knizia's clever design makes this game rather unique.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 3:25 am
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Steve Wagner
United States
Kenesaw
Nebraska
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Gelatinous Goo wrote:
It's hard to pick the best auction game between Medici, Modern Art, and Ra. Just when I decide it's one of them, I remember a reason why it's one of the others.

At the end of the day, though, my favorite auction game is Amun-Re. It's not just auctions like the others, so it doesn't join the club, but it has multiple auctions in each phase and is an overall more complete gaming experience for me.

(in fact, I'll add it to this list below if no one else has).


I hate Medici and Modern Art, but love Ra and Amun-Re.

Why? Because both of those games are fun to play, have good themes, and don't make you feel like you're in a college math class when you're playing the game.

I like math, but I don't like using so much of it in a game that my head wants to explode. I expect people who love Modern Art also love Power Grid (another too game with too much math for me.)
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 1:32 am
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Adam Deverell
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Melbourne
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Quote:
I hate Medici and Modern Art, but love Ra and Amun-Re.


I love all four. Regardless, I think it is safe to say if there is ONE mechanic that was done right ten years ago, it is the auction game.

I'd rather play these four games than most other auction games that have appeared in the past few years. They may never be beaten.

Saying that, has the auction mechanic become a seriously underused mechanic lately? Can't really think of any decent auction games published in the past few years? Perhaps publishers and designers feel nothing will touch Knizia's classics?
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 11:21 pm
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Pat Wilz
United States
Bay St. Louis
MS
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The only thing about this game that gets old is the cheesy art snob jokes we make when we play it.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:25 am
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22. Board Game: Acquire [Average Rating:7.41 Overall Rank:106]
Martin G
United Kingdom
London
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Sackson sees your ten years and raises you another forty.
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Tom Hancock
United States
Charleston
West Virginia
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Great addition to this list...
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 1:25 pm
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Jeff Forbes


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Sagrilarus wrote:
abdiel wrote:
qwertymartin wrote:
How so? In some ways, I'd argue it was the first Euro.

Calling it a Euro is like calling Chuck Berry the original Punk rocker. The concept of a Euro game didn't even exist when this was designed. Any similarities to Euro games are purely coincidental.


    Any similarities to Euro games are purely ancestral.

             S.




So, that makes it a proto-euro?

 
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  • Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:16 pm
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Take joy from you wins; take lessons from your losses.
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jforbes wrote:


So, that makes it a proto-euro?



    Smiley aside, it's a matter of whether you want to give "euro" an official start date because somebody didn't invent the term early enough. It's like saying Homo Sapiens didn't exist until the 18th century because that's when the phrase was first used.

    A proto-euro would resemble a euro -- have euro-like features that foreshadow euros. Acquire is about as dead-center in the euro concept (at least 2005's definition of it) as you're going to get.

             S.


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  • Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:36 pm
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Edwin Nealley
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Ardmore
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But if Sackson was the precursor, does that make it a Euro, or an 'Amero'? Actually, enough of his games were for a primarily European audience that I guess the name is still fair, but the early 3M games were hardly so...
 
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  • Posted Tue Mar 20, 2012 11:54 am
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Take joy from you wins; take lessons from your losses.
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    You can call it Snickelfritz if you want. I don't think it's the target sales market that drives the definition. The concept is what matters -- a couple of simple mechanics within a short ruleset that produce deep, engaging play. Easy entry, deep play. That's the nature of "euro". Acquire fits that mold.

    I think its significant random elements are more similar to the 90s concept of euro, but they're essentially luck-then-decision which better matches the modern concept. Acquire continues to be an interesting play in its original ruleset in spite of about fifty years of progress in the industry. There aren't a lot of games from the era holding up as well.

             S.


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  • Edited Wed Apr 4, 2012 8:26 pm
  • Posted Tue Mar 20, 2012 2:30 pm
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23. Board Game: Condottiere [Average Rating:6.73 Overall Rank:524]
Martin G
United Kingdom
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I've been playing this a lot recently and it's a blast. Simple rules so it's all about the interaction and bluffing.
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Daniel W.
United States
Portland
OR
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I was close to adding this, but I have only played the newest edition from Fantasy Flight which came out after 2002.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:07 pm
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Martin G
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I just recently got the original Eurogames edition and I like it better. The cards are gorgeous and the rules are even simpler.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:09 pm
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Pietro Del Mar
United States

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oeste wrote:
I was close to adding this, but I have only played the newest edition from Fantasy Flight which came out after 2002.


I really like this one, but it doesn't get a lot of love around here unfortunately.

You can make adjust your new copy like I did to match the older version.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 2:51 am
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Tobias Sölvefjord
Sweden
Skövde
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Nah, I like Iliad better.
Less chance to loose in turn three and just sit out the rest of the game.
The partnership variant with six players is also spectacular.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 5:53 pm
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24. Board Game: Age of Steam [Average Rating:7.82 Overall Rank:25]
Martin G
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London
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Reinterpreted as Steam and Railroad Tycoon, but the original is 10 years old this year.
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Rich P
United Kingdom
Sheffield
United Kingdom
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Back home after a world tour. How quickly a year goes...
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I'll have to give it a birthday party.
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 11:27 pm
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Bill Eldard
United States
Burke
Virginia
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It's still my favorite railroad game after all these years. It's one of Martin Wallace's best designs.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 3:30 am
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Tim Gilberg
United States
Norman
Oklahoma
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medievalbanquet wrote:
jond wrote:
My second favourite game of all time.


Play it more and more and it will be your first.


It won't make it to number one for me.


Quote:
Steam is a mess.


Steam is the basis for a rather radical set of expansion maps for Age of Steam. Some of those expansion maps are really quite good.
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  • Posted Wed Feb 8, 2012 6:50 pm
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J C Lawrence
United States
Campbell
California
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Gilby wrote:
Steam is the basis for a rather radical set of expansion maps for Age of Steam. Some of those expansion maps are really quite good.


But with the small problem of being bolted to a dysfunctional economic system. Age of Steam doesn't have credible competition in the area.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 2:52 am
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Tim Gilberg
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Norman
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clearclaw wrote:

But with the small problem of being bolted to a dysfunctional economic system.


Different (and more constrained) economic system. A design that properly works with it can be quite good--and here I'm largely thinking of Brussels Metro. But others could work with that economic system, and do things that wouldn't really work in base Age of Steam unless introducing new expansion-specific economy rules. (Which, of course, is certainly a possibility with any expansion.)

Quote:
Age of Steam doesn't have credible competition in the area.


But it's not competition. No more than Age of Steam Expansion: Amazon Rainforest & Sahara Desert is competition for Age of Steam Expansion #2: Western US and Germany.
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 4:15 am
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25. Board Game: Die Macher [Average Rating:7.75 Overall Rank:49]
 
Martin G
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Quarter of a century old and still no. 1! (by BGG game ID)
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When the world hands you a Jeffrey, furry walls will make it fine.
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Again, a really good game that just works.
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  • Posted Tue Feb 7, 2012 12:07 am
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Joe Thomas
United States
Coshocton
Ohio
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I go this game, but have yet to played it. cry
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  • Posted Thu Feb 9, 2012 8:11 am
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Breno K.
Brazil
Brasília
Distrito Federal
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endou_kenji wrote:
Osiris Ra wrote:
Well, the theme is not something that grabs me. I hate politics. But I love the way you need to do some "horse trading" in the provinces, while still keeping your edge with the public at large. It makes it a non-interactive version of Oasis, which is one of my favorite games. Also, the other thing to like are all of its intertwined mechanisms that feel like you are tinkering with a most interesting machine.

That's kinda funny, 'cause I hate politics, but I usually love the games with politics themes (Twilight Struggle, Campaign Manager 2008, Die Macher, Founding Fathers...)


On the other hand, I love war and hate war-themed games.

(jk)
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:15 am
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Philip Thomas
United Kingdom
London
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Possibly...possibly, need to play it again to find out.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:35 pm
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Jeff Forbes


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I love how in Die Macher that:

- Issues in upcoming regions show themselves gradually - this is a very good approximation to the real world
- You can change your party's position only gradually
- You have to work on local issues and national issues and many times they just don't match up
- Forcing a coalition at just the "right" time
- The ensuing whining of kingmaking by some people
- Only real issue is how powerful the poll cards can be and a higher than average level of randomness (but in this game it works)

It definitely feels like there's a big machine that is working on its own, doing its own thing, and you can basically nudge it in your direction and hope for the best. It's an experience game - and one that I love to experience.
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  • Edited Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:58 pm
  • Posted Tue Feb 14, 2012 6:24 pm
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Mathue Faulkner
United States
Dallas
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I've owned 5 of these, and played another, and I'm actually surprised to find that I really don't love any of those 6 games. Tikal is probably my favorite on this list, but I never loved it, and we had a lot of AP in our games that slowed it down too much...

San Juan + Cuba > Puerto Rico
(I don't hate Puerto Rico, but I'll almost never opt to pull it out)

The Settlers of Catan was a great game, but I burnt myself out on it for sure...

I've never understood the fascination with Carcassonne. It's okay I guess....nothing special.

And I actively dislike Citadels.

Lastly, I played El Grande once so I can't give a real judgment of it, but I didn't come away loving it...
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  • Posted Mon Feb 6, 2012 7:50 pm
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Justus Pang
United States
Houston
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Funny, my friday night game group bag is an interesting combo of these two poles

Scotland Yard
Conspiracy

Bios: Megafauna
Panic Station

with

Container (2007)
stuck in the middle.
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  • Edited Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:42 am
  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:42 am
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Add another one not convinced about the euroishness of some of those ... anyway, I have 21 of them (the first 59), and have played 10 in the last year, IIRC.

Edit for clarity
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  • Edited Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:12 am
  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:17 am
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Guido Gloor
Switzerland
Ostermundigen
Bern
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David N wrote:
Add another one not convinced about the euroishness of some of those ... anyway, I have 21 of them, and have played 10 in the last year, IIRC.

The thing is that the list is about good games, and all good games are Euros by necessity.

And they have explosions. Can't have a good game without explosions.
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  • Posted Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:47 pm
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Jonathan Tullsen
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Tigard
Oregon
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Wait...
Ten-year-old euros OR
10 year-old euros?
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  • Posted Sat Feb 11, 2012 6:24 am
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