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Dominion: Dark Ages
Fantastiqa
Mage Knight: Board Game
Among the Stars
Eclipse
Mice and Mystics
Thunder Road
Lords of Waterdeep
Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)
Collapsible D: The Final Minutes of the Titanic
Virgin Queen
The Big Bang Theory: The Party Game
Agricola: All Creatures Big and Small
Skyline
Dominion
A Game of Thrones: The Board Game (Second Edition)
The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
Dungeon Fighter
1989: Dawn of Freedom
Android: Netrunner
Ace of Spies
Alien Frontiers
Twilight Struggle
Arkham Horror
Agricola
7 Wonders
Ora et Labora
Dungeon Command: Sting of Lolth
Village
Wrong Chemistry
War of the Ring
Hawaii
Glory to Rome
Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
Kingdom Builder
Twilight Imperium (third edition)
The Castles of Burgundy
Trajan
Targi
Quarriors! Quarmageddon
Race for the Galaxy
Battlestar Galactica
Zombicide
Omen: A Reign of War
Power Grid
Caylus
Dominant Species
Tammany Hall
Small World
Le Havre
Great Science Fiction Books
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Another list created to provide suggestions on good Science Fiction novels. I find that its truly hard to find good ones.

I am hoping that others will contribute to the list to add some of their favourites to help me find something new to read on the commuter train

See this geek list for historical fiction: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/40591

[edit: fixed spelling]
[edit: Such a great list guys! thanks for all the great contributions! keep them coming! there is so much on here now that I HAVE TO READ!]
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126. Board Game: Bridge [Average Rating:7.51 Overall Rank:173]
Dan Shirley
United Kingdom
hemel hempstead
Herts
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First Contract, by Greg Costikyan http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgamedesigner/498 explores the effects of a contact by 'friendly' aliens of super-advanced technology, and how it instantly ruins the economy of the Earth.
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Eric Kuha
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Interestingly enough Carl Sagan wrote a novel called First Contact, which is surprisingly interesting.
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:18 am
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127. Board Game: Soul Influence [Average Rating:0.00 Unranked]
Nick Blank
United States
Unspecified
Ohio
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Souls in the Great Machine

and the sequals:

The Miocene Arrow
Eyes of the Calculor

Set after the final war, mankind has mostly lost its knowledge and technology. Machines are clock driven, wind powered, or muscle powered. There are still automated war fortresses in orbit, and whenever someone tries to build an electrical macine (radio, computer, etc) or tries to make a vehicle over a certain size or that can travel over a certain speed the sattellites deliver a powerful EMP burst or weapons fire (they think the war is still on). Unfortunately, before the final war a project was started to counteract global warming, nanobots were set loose on the moon to get raw materials for a sun shield. Global warming is no longer a problem, what with no technology and all, but automated construction of the sunshield continues (hello eternal ice age).

A librarian (librarians are cool here, they fight duels with pistols to settle disputes over cataloging and the like), attempts to figure out how to defeat the orbiting sattelites with the aid of a giant mechanical human powered computer called the calculor. Any criminals with mathematical ability are dumped into the machine to serve out their sentences.

All the while a mysterious force periodically supresses people's consciousness and draws them to walk toward the sea, everyone outdoors has automated anchors that drop to the ground if not reset after a period, hopefully snagging you on something during "the call" preventing you from walking into a ditch or off a cliff while unconscious.

Great story, great world, fantastic characters, and plenty of humor.

The other books were harder to get into for me at first (they go in directions I didn't expect), but they were excellent as well.

He also has a fantasy series (Moonworlds) that was good.
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128. Board Game: Babylon 5 Collectible Card Game [Average Rating:6.54 Overall Rank:1756]
Judd Vance
United States
Wichita
Kansas
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Now when I say, "Who's the master?" You say, "Sho Nuff!"
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If you liked Babylon 5 (the TV show, not the game), check these out -- all of them are cannon:

Psi-Corps Trilogy: By J. Gregory Keyes
Dark Genesis: The Birth of Psi Corp
Deadly Relations: Bester Ascendant
Final Reckoning: The Fate of Bester

This tells you Earth telepaths came to be, the creation of psi corps, the rise and final fate of Bester.

Legions of Fire Trilogy: By Peter David
The Long Night of Centauri Prime.
Armies of Light and Dark.
Out of the Darkness.

These tell you what happened on Centauri Prime after the show: the keepers, Londo, the rise of Vir, and what happened to David Sheridan and that gift Londo gave him.

The Passing of the Techno-Mages Trilogy: by Jeanne Cavelos
Casting Shadows
Summoning Light
Invoking Darkness

These are the best B5 books. This tells all about how the Techno-Mages work their "magic" and how they fit into the Vorlon-Shadow war, as well as Galen's past (from the "Crusade" series), and best of all, how Morden survived the nuclear blast on Z'ha'dum. Lots and lots of good B5 info here.

All the trilogies are based on outlines from J. Michael Straczynski.

Two more worth checking out:
-The Shadow Within - By Janne Cavelos: this is like a prequel to the Techno-Mage trilogy. It tells what happened to Anna Sheridan and Morden and the crew of the Icarus on their doomed mission to Z'ha'dum, as well as Sheridan's first command of the Agenemnon.

- To Dream in the City of Sorrows - by Kathryn Drennan. (also known as Mrs. JMS). This tells what happens after Jeffrey Sinclair was re-assigned to Mimbar and how he became the head of the Rangers, and what happened to his fiancee.
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129. Board Game: Descent: The Well of Darkness [Average Rating:7.85 Unranked] [Average Rating:7.85 Unranked]
Jon Greisz
United States
McKinney
Texas
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Jack Chalker's Well of Souls Series

1-Midnight at the Well of Souls

2-Exiles at the Well of Souls

3-Quest for the Well of Souls

4-The Return of Nathan Brazil

5-Twilight at the Well of Souls

Great stuff.
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130. Board Game: Dark Stars [Average Rating:4.34 Unranked]
Oliver Harrison
Canada
Kamloops
British Columbia
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The Dark Beyond the Stars by Frank M Robinson. One of my favorites of all time. Unconventional, different and tense with a fascinating lead character. I wish he'd written more sci-fi.
 
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131. Board Game: Titan [Average Rating:7.08 Overall Rank:335]
 
Remy Gibson
United States
Kewanee
Illinois
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John Varley.

I just finished re-reading the Gaean Trilogy, which is interesting more for its world-building than for its people.

Many of his short stories and novels are set in the so-called "Eight Worlds" universe, where Earth and Jupiter have been taken over by the Invaders and humanity has been forced to take up residence in the other nooks and crannies of the solar system. The residents are long-lived and apt to change genders on a whim. Of particular note are Steel Beach and The Golden Globe. I've read each of them several times and always enjoy them. He's great at inserting humor to good effect in his work.

I would recommend that anybody find Press Enter, a truly creepy early-80s computer yarn.
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Mike Anino
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Placerville
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I read Golden Globe in May of last year, and yeah, that's a great book. It's a great con-man book, it's a great "future history" sort of book, it's a great "biography" too. I really liked how varied it was while still being fairly easy to follow. I haven't read Steel Beach yet, and I know that Golden Globe is a sort of sequel, but you don't HAVE to have read the one to read the other, and by the time I realized it was a sequel sort of thing I was so into the book I couldn't bring myself to put it down.
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:32 am
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Donald Wilbur III
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Yes! I was beginning to think I was the only one that read these. I like all of the Varley I've read, but this trilogy is what hooked me.
 
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  • Edited Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:25 am
  • Posted Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:25 am
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132. Board Game: Age of Discovery [Average Rating:6.51 Overall Rank:1265]
Bill Allen
Australia
Ngunnawal, Canberra
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Great list of books, but is still misisng my all-time favourite - The Rediscovery of Man by Cordwainer Smith ... a collection of short stories set in the same future. Hard to explain what made them so special - they were just written differently. Definitely worth reading.

I also recommend Wolfbane (Pohl and Kornbluth), Gateway (Pohl), The Book of Skulls (Silverberg) and Behold the Man (Moorcock) ... among others ...
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Patrick Runyan
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Ok, I have read these. I do not think they are very good with a few exceptions: "Scanners Live in Vain" and "Golden the Ship Was, Oh oh oh!"

Mostly I just didn't go in for his story-telling style. But also, his weird obsession with cats is distracting and silly at the very least. I love cats, but this dude had issues.

About his style, people often say he was re-writing traditional Chinese myths and using that approach in his writing. I guess so. I can imagine because of the sort of weirdness in his narratives. But it just wasn't my cup of tea.

But again, the two stories above were good. A few others were ok. Anything with cats (or cat girls) was bad.
 
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  • Posted Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:48 am
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Bill Allen
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jpwrunyan wrote:
Ok, I have read these. I do not think they are very good with a few exceptions: "Scanners Live in Vain" and "Golden the Ship Was, Oh oh oh!"


Well, it is our differences that make us unique!

I (also) particularly liked (off the top of my head so probably horribly misquoted) Alpha Ralpha Boulevard, A Planet Named Shayol, Mother Hitton's Little Kittons, The Dead Lady of Clown Town (yet, the cats are here ) and The Ballad of Lost C'Mell (more cats!)

Suggets you don't try his novel Norstillia of you do't like the cats though ...
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  • Posted Sun Mar 15, 2009 11:07 am
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Patrick Runyan
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Yeah, I think upon reflection there are two ways to view the plethora of cats in his writing:

1 He just was having fun and loves cats so... in go the cats!

2 He was obsessed with cats to an unwholesome degree.

In case of 1, he gets kudos for not being pompous like so many other writers often get in sci-fi. I mean, it is refreshing to read someone who is in it because they are having fun, and whose writing is playful.

In case of 2, yeah... the cat-girl thing is sorta weird. Maybe I've just been living in Japan too long where "cute" has a sordid underbelly that taints all things.

By the way, what I heard of Norstrilia was fascinating enough to get me to buy Instrumentality of Man... before Norstrilia. With time, I may still end up reading Norstrilia...
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:47 pm
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133. Board Game: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Game [Average Rating:5.27 Unranked]
Joe Geerkin
United States
Eden
New York
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I think reading Jules Verne or HG Wells is a lot of fun. The stories are still great and it's facinating to see the past's vision of the future. (It's kinda like Tomorrowland before they remodeled it. )
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Patrick Runyan
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I think HG Wells is always a safe bet. He was just a good well-rounded writer. He completely lacks the one-upmanship that I think ruins so many writers/books in the SF & F genre. He was never trying to out intellectualize scientists, make something weirder or more bizarre than his peers, or really do anything other than write interesting stories. A heroic writer in my eyes.

I like the Time Machine best for its placeholder as the first dark vision of the future that would eventually become the Dying Earth sub-genre.
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  • Posted Sun Mar 15, 2009 4:53 am
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134. Board Game: Warhammer 40,000 [Average Rating:6.26 Overall Rank:1620]
Shane Beck
Australia
Not Applicable
Not great Sci Fi books, but I'm going to go trashy and put in the novels set in the Warhammer 40K universe. I plead guilty to reading these kind of books from time to time.....
 
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I have to say that the Cain books are by far the most amusing. Campy and funny
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:54 am
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Joey Konyha
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Terrytown
Louisiana
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A guilty pleasure of mine...15 Hours is above average for a GW book.
 
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  • Posted Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:01 pm
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135. Board Game: Trail of the Fox [Average Rating:6.37 Overall Rank:4996]
Jesper Rugård Jensen
Denmark
Copenhagen
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I have only read two novels by Jon Courtney Grimwood, but I am going to get more. 9tail Fox and Stamping Butterflies are both very different books, but I found the plot and the language very engrossing. Stamping Butterflies is both a time travel(?), space opera, and contemporary history novel in one book and is good to boot. 9tail Fox was the first I read, and is also some kind of combination this time of horror, noir and science fiction. Very recommended.
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Bruce Murphy
Australia
Pyrmont
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They're both quite good, but his Arabesk trilogy was really fantastic. I just lugged my copies across a couple of continents from storage so I could read them all again.

B>
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  • Posted Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:23 pm
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136. Board Game: Scourge of God [Average Rating:5.60 Unranked]
ian morris
United Kingdom
lichfield
staffordshire
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The Engines Of God, by Jack McDevitt.


A fine body of work, but this is his best. Mankind tries to find The Monumentmakers, and stumbles upon an ancient threat to all civilisations.






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Deep Thought
United States
Columbus
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You know, this got all the way to the last page, and I hadn't seen him, so if you hadn't posted it, I would've. The sequels to this are good as well, and answer some of the questions left open by the first.
Then there's his Alex Benedict series, starting with A Talent for War, which are decent mystery/adventure types.

McDevitt has a way of writing that assumes so many things in his far future settings are going to be largely unchanged from the way they are now. I'm not sure I like it or that it's plausible, but it does set him apart from all the other writers I've read.
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:33 am
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137. Board Game: Heart of Africa [Average Rating:5.66 Overall Rank:5102]
ian morris
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No Greg Bear yet ? Then try Legacy, his sci-fi version of Conrad's Heart Of Darkness. Most of his stuff is well worth reading.


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Craig Phillips
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Columbia
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Forge of God was good.
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  • Posted Sun Mar 15, 2009 10:29 pm
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Deep Thought
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Was mentioned earlier, but I'll second it. I also like his series from Queen of Angels, Slant, Heads, to Moving Mars, though some of the others are prbly better.

He does some decent horror-ish books too, like Dead Lines and Vitals.
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  • Edited Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:34 am
  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:26 am
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Tim Thorp
United States
Granite Falls
Washington
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Blood Music.
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  • Posted Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:40 am
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138. Board Game: Operation [Average Rating:3.99 Overall Rank:7964]
Joe Baptist
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James White's "Sector General" series - about a multi-environmental hospital for alien species are brilliant.
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Mike Anino
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Yes, right, that's the name of the book I was trying to remember! I loved what I read of the first book of the series, but I was reading it just before having dental work done, so there's a bit negative context to it, but still, great book. I really liked that each story was kind of a mystery and that the characters were just getting adjusted to life in a multi-species environment. And the elaborate design of the station so that beings of any kind of environment or radioactivity could all exsist side by side. Very good book. I should get back to that.
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:37 am
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139. Board Game: Attack of the Plant People [Average Rating:6.00 Unranked]
Joshua Kenney
United States
North Haledon
NJ
I like shorts. They are comfy and easy to wear.
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Day of the Triffids by John Wyndham.

The classic novel that inspired a number of other projects, such as 28 Days Later (but is it really "inspiration" when you rip off the plot point for point?). It's a chilling story with some of the creepiest "monsters" in SF.
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Patrick Runyan
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How did I miss this the first time through? Yes, very interesting book. Especially the implications he leaves you with regarding the Triffid's possible sentience and the form in which it is manifested...

Also liked the Midwich Cuckoos (John Carpenter movie also isn't it?)
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:40 pm
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140. Board Game: Man O' War [Average Rating:7.12 Overall Rank:776]
Craig Phillips
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Old Man's War by John Scalzi This was a pleasant surprise from out of nowhere. It has a fascinating set-up and a lot of action.
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141. Board Game: 1000 Blank White Cards [Average Rating:6.76 Overall Rank:1406]
Deep Thought
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Since he hasn't appeared yet, I'll add John Barnes, particularly his Thousand Cultures books, starting with A Million Open Doors.
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142. Board Game: X from Outer Space [Average Rating:4.33 Unranked]
Steffan O'Sullivan
United States
Plymouth
NH
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A black cat crossing your path signifies that the animal is going somewhere. -- Groucho Marx
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Eric Frank Russell. Now *this* is classic Science Fiction. He has some novels, such as "Wasp", but he shines in short stories. Read "Plus X" sometime, or "Allamagoosa" or "Metamorphosite" or "Men, Martians and Machines" or "Diabologic" or "Dear Devil" or "I Am Nothing" or any of dozens of others.

I believe there's an anthology of his still in print - well worth hunting up.
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143. Board Game: Fluxx [Average Rating:5.73 Overall Rank:4257]
Pretentious? Moi?
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The Soul Rider Series by Jack L. Chalker
(aka. "Flux & Anchor"):

"Spirits of Flux and Anchor"
"Empires of Flux and Anchor"
"Masters of Flux and Anchor"
"The Birth of Flux and Anchor"
"Children of Flux and Anchor"

Several of his series have already graced the list, but I found these books particular interesting in that they:
Spoiler (mouseover to reveal):
appeared to exist in a Fantasy setting throughout the early novels (heightened by the fact that the inhabitants believe they're living in a "magickal" world), but is revealed in the later books to be completely technological in nature, with a believable rationale .

Chalker was probably my favorite author, throughout high school. IMO, he did a better job with his lengthy series, than with his stand-alone novels. Although, I seem to remember enjoying a few such as, "Downtiming the Night Side" & "And the Devil will Drag You Under." YMMV.
 
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144. Board Game: Cat's Eye: The Last Big Game [Average Rating:0.00 Unranked]
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Kurt Vonnegut Jr. has been mentioned several times in the comments, but had no entry. Sooo, here's Cat's Cradle, which introduced Ice Nine, the karass, and the pseudo-religion, Bokononism.

(Although, I could have easily listed: Slaughterhouse-Five; Breakfast of Champions; God Bless You, Mr. Rosewater; or the short story, Harrison Bergeron.)

Like many of his works, the character development makes it easy to forget that events are taking place in a Science Fiction setting.
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145. Board Game: Nineteen Eighty Four [Average Rating:0.00 Unranked]
Eric Kuha
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North Dakota
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I'm going to do that thing.

Two sf novels that are frequently compared:

1984 by Orewell

Brave New World by Huxley

The question I'm sure everyone's debated is which novel is closer to the world we live in today? My money's on Huxley.
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Patrick Runyan
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Thumbs for 1984.

I think we are closer to it for these reasons:

1 There are totalitarian states now as there are then.
2 The technology of the time is clearly at or below that which we have today.
3 The word "Orwellian" is used to describe actual things in our society.
4 Riffing off 3, we have seen the very word manipulation described by Orwell used in our society (indeed, Orwell saw the seeds of it in his own time and mere extrapolated its fruition in 1984).

5 The techonology described by Huxley is still unrealized today (there are no fliers).
6 The eugenics described by Huxley are also far beyond anything in our own past nor immediately implementable today (heck, we can't past stem cell research, you think we're going to implement THAT anytime soon?).

In conclusion, 1984 is much closer to where we are today. That's why Orwell was a true visionary genius.

Finally, Brave New World was ok, I think. But it is nothing near the masterpiece that is 1984. I've read other of Huxley's work and can honestly say, I'm just not a fan.
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 12:58 pm
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jpwrunyan wrote:
(heck, we can't past stem cell research, you think we're going to implement THAT anytime soon?).


Welcome to Canada!
http://www.citynews.ca/news/news_32542.aspx

Had to compare this two books in high school. so awesome!
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:11 pm
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Eric Kuha
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jpwrunyan wrote:
Thumbs for 1984.

I think we are closer to it for these reasons:

1 There are totalitarian states now as there are then.
2 The technology of the time is clearly at or below that which we have today.
3 The word "Orwellian" is used to describe actual things in our society.
4 Riffing off 3, we have seen the very word manipulation described by Orwell used in our society (indeed, Orwell saw the seeds of it in his own time and mere extrapolated its fruition in 1984).

5 The techonology described by Huxley is still unrealized today (there are no fliers).
6 The eugenics described by Huxley are also far beyond anything in our own past nor immediately implementable today (heck, we can't past stem cell research, you think we're going to implement THAT anytime soon?).

In conclusion, 1984 is much closer to where we are today. That's why Orwell was a true visionary genius.

Finally, Brave New World was ok, I think. But it is nothing near the masterpiece that is 1984. I've read other of Huxley's work and can honestly say, I'm just not a fan.


Excellent points. However, what say you about rampant consumerism and obsession with novelty? What about the decline in an interest in literature and art?

I think it really smacks of B.N.W.
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  • Edited Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:09 pm
  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:09 pm
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146. Board Game: Men Are from Mars, Women Are from Venus [Average Rating:3.84 Overall Rank:7844]
ian o
Canada

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C.S. Lewis' Space Trilogy is a very interesting read, mingling spirituality with space travel.
The first book Out of the Silent Planet describes a visit to Mars which is very different than the Mars we know.
Perelandra describes a visit to Venus which is just beginning as a full world.
That Hideous Strength takes place on Earth and describes a frightening society rising to power, almost as though it is showing how the world of 1984 may have come to be.
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Canada

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really great books! though all are related, each are very different stories!
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:08 pm
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Edwin Nealley
United States
Ardmore
Pennsylvania
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I believe one of his last works (perhaps unfinished?) was on Time Travel.
 
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  • Posted Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:26 pm
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147. Board Game: Killer Nobles [Average Rating:7.00 Unranked]
Ian Walker
United Kingdom
Liss
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Leige Killer by Christopher Hinz

Another one of my favorite books. I picked this one up on a whim when in America along time ago. It was a fantastic read, a very well written sci-fi thriller set in a future society. A specially bred assassin from an earlier, more violent time (a Paratwa with two bodies but one mind) is on the loose and doing what it does best. A couple of old Paratwa hunters are taken out of stasis to help deal with it.

Action, intrigue, sci-fi gadgets and kit galore ..

This one would make a good movie ... and the two sequels were pretty good too.
 
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148. Board Game: Time Tripper [Average Rating:5.95 Overall Rank:4332]
Mark Slater
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Newport
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Time Ships, Steven Baxter's authorized sequal to the Time Machine. Where the narrator takes a second trip in time to try again, to save Weena, good stuff.
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149. Board Game: ElfQuest [Average Rating:4.98 Overall Rank:7003]
Canada

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Not exactly a novel, a graphic novel, but good story all the same. The complete Elquest series is really great! Quite entertaining!
 
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150. Board Game: John Carter: Warlord of Mars [Average Rating:6.45 Overall Rank:3287]
gm j
United States
Carrollton
Georgia
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I can't believe this hadn't been added before now. Did I miss it?

I actually owned this at one time. I'm old.
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Hal


Michigan
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No, you didn't miss it. But I've been wondering for awhile now when someone would add it.

I think I have several John Carter paperbacks in my library downstairs. I've been meaning to catalog them and acquire the ones that I'm missing.
 
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  • Posted Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:12 am
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David Singleton
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You could try what I'm doing and start reading books that have won the Hugo award. I've read more than 2/3 of them now and most of them have been quite good. In fact, there's only one that I've read so far that I actually disliked and many more that I might never have read that were fantastic.
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  • Posted Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:11 pm
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Patrick Runyan
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andyl wrote:
jpwrunyan wrote:
andyl wrote:

I would also add the Clarke Award


The Clarke Award burned me. So I will disagree with you there. I blame it for making feel safe buying Perdido Street Station (I had already been disillusioned by Hugo and Nebula, but surely the Clarke award can be trusted!).

I think all these awards are just phroo-phroo like the Oscars and Academy Awards. You know publishers are working the system behind the scenes in order to sell books. It's all political.


Speaking as someone who has voted in a number of these awards (BSFA and Hugo) I have to say I have had no publisher make any attempt to sway my vote. SF fandom is a small field and for the fan voted awards we would hear about any such attempts. In fact there was one instance of someone trying to influence the award - the book was Black Genesis by L. Ron Hubbard and it finished in last place on the shortlist. Of course because it is voted for by fans - we have our favourites and there is often a home-town bias (Canadian authors do better when the con is in Canada).


Well, if what you say is indeed true, then I guess Hugo has no excuse for the less than good recommendations they've made. To their credit, they are fewer than the good ones. But forgive me if I am still skeptical of the process. After all, I don't know you or what your influence is voting on these awards. Are you on a panel of 10 judges whose vote matters? Or are you voting among hundreds of people at a convention? And, hypothetically speaking, if your vote were swayed in the past, would you really admit so here?

Not trying to slam you or anything. Just being a healthy skeptic. And indeed if you can convince me I am wrong, I will modify my criticism accordingly (just PM me cause I won't be reading this thread much longer).

andyl wrote:

jpwrunyan wrote:

As many others have stated above, go to the SF/F Masterworks Lists for starters. These are books that have typically stood the test of time (although by no means do I agree with all their selections). And since many of the books on the list didn't sell well enough to continue being printed, that just proves the Masterworks List more credible.


I don't think that many of the books went out of print because they didn't sell very well. The business of publishing is such that all but a very tiny percentage of books go out of print from time to time.

Also the list misses too many good books out. Basically the SF Masterworks series are only those books to which Orion (the publisher) have the rights to. I don't think that they went out and bought any new rights - hence why Dune only exists as a hardcover in the range.


On publishing, I totally beg to differ. Books do go out of print all the time. There are books we have never and will never hear of that are going to get pulped because they didn't sell. But that's getting off what I think is your central point which is whether Orion SF/F Masterworks books went out of print or not because they didn't sell well.

Your next statement is subjective, I think. But I'd still be interested to know what books you think are left out of the list.

Otherwise, what you say is sound. So, let me go back and support my initial argument. There were some entries obviously missing that appear to have been recently acquired, so Orion has obviously shown it is willing to go for books that it might not currently have the rights to. For example, only now does their fantasy list have HP Lovecraft. That would seem to imply they had to acquire some rights to publish him. I also still believe that some titles did not do well. Though I was certainly glad to see Grendel on the list, last I checked they weren't printing it anymore. John Gardner is not a fantasy writer and Grendel is not a fantasy book, masterpiece though it is. I imagine their target market did not pick up on it. And people, like me, who would buy Grendel would probably buy it from a different publisher (I did).

In regards to their hardback editions, you may be correct there. Any argument I would make is purely speculative.

So again, I appreciate your input and dissent, but I still hold the opinion that these awards are phroo-phroo. I'm a stubborn old man that way, I guess.
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:31 pm
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Eric Nolan
Ireland
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I find this discussion about publishing very interesting. I always considered the Masterworks collection (and also the Gollancz collection) to be a collection of good SF. I never thought they were the definitive source of all good SF since they clearly don't have the rights to publish all those books. I did assume that they were selecting high quality books that were not currently being published that they either already had or could cheaply obtain the rights for. I also thought that competition for shelf space in book shops meant that good books inevitably got squeezed out and reissuing them in this collection format was a way to fight this.

So if someone wanted to read all the great SF books out there they would have to do a lot of research to decide what they wanted and would end up getting books from a variety of publishers. I think some of them would come from the Orion or Gollancz collections. If someone like me, who has read a lot of SF and is looking for good books that they have not previously heard of then going to these collections is a good idea. Certainly I don't think I've read any bad books when I dipped in to these collections. I should also mention that I've read a lot of books that are highly recommended in this geeklist and by my friends and I consider them to be the SF equivalent of the fantasy 'epic' (ie: my subjective opinion: crap).
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:36 pm
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Andy Leighton
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Hivemind wrote:
I find this discussion about publishing very interesting. I always considered the Masterworks collection (and also the Gollancz collection) to be a collection of good SF. I never thought they were the definitive source of all good SF since they clearly don't have the rights to publish all those books. I did assume that they were selecting high quality books that were not currently being published that they either already had or could cheaply obtain the rights for. I also thought that competition for shelf space in book shops meant that good books inevitably got squeezed out and reissuing them in this collection format was a way to fight this.

So if someone wanted to read all the great SF books out there they would have to do a lot of research to decide what they wanted and would end up getting books from a variety of publishers. I think some of them would come from the Orion or Gollancz collections. If someone like me, who has read a lot of SF and is looking for good books that they have not previously heard of then going to these collections is a good idea. Certainly I don't think I've read any bad books when I dipped in to these collections. I should also mention that I've read a lot of books that are highly recommended in this geeklist and by my friends and I consider them to be the SF equivalent of the fantasy 'epic' (ie: my subjective opinion: crap).


Yep I can go for all of that (including your opinion of the dodgier recommendations in this list). Gollancz has tried this type of marketing of reprints before in its Gollancz Collectors' Editions series (about 10 years ago) and Classic SF (about 20 years ago). They also do a Future Classics series (paperback reprints again) with funky covers.
 
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 3:59 pm
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Jeff
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I came in here with the intent of adding William Shatner's Techwar books, with a cheesy picture to go with it...

...but then, after seeing the hard work and great recommendations that had gone in the list, something almost unheard of happened - I was moved NOT to make a sarcastic post in a geek list, and actually instead attempt to contribute something useful! (though how useful I was is debatable, I suppose...)

Anyway, don't tell anyone - I'd hate for it to get back to the SCA (That's Sarcastic Comments Anonymous, not the other one!) about what I did here...
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  • Posted Mon Mar 16, 2009 6:47 pm
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